would you rather have an old goat or a young on?


For me, the young one.
- dmnted

If the Leafs were rebuilding still, keep the young guys. But considering the goal is to keep Andersen rested, the proven back-up is more ideal on a 1 year deal.

Who cares? It’s his fault for being young.
- Steven_Seagull

Sound logic. I'm in. Let's get Jagr. Then flip Matthews for Zetterberg.

Pickard has similar career stats and is younger. Also, he’s ALREADY SIGNED. Nah, grass is always greener...
- Steven_Seagull

False. Pickard doesn't have the experience nor the proven ability compared to Lehtonen or Mason hence why you constantly left out how many NHL games they played in.

Sound logic. I'm in. Let's get Jagr. Then flip Matthews for Zetterberg.
- PatC80

Oh god yes...

Pickard has similar career stats and is younger. Also, he’s ALREADY SIGNED. Nah, grass is always greener...
- Steven_Seagull

Those similar stats prove that he's not as good as mason or lehtonen though...

False. Pickard doesn't have the experience nor the proven ability compared to Lehtonen or Mason hence why you constantly left out how many NHL games they played in.
- Unholy_Goalie

If Babcock can't trust any goalie other than Andersen, we may need to get someone. I hope Pickard is the guy.

Arguable, and even if they are definitively better, it isn't worth the contract spot and cap space. Leafs need to save cap for the ELC bonuses so they don't get pushed into next year when the cap crunch actually happens.
- harps43

Contract spot won't matter if you trade McElhinney, which they should. Cap space doesn't matter on a 1 year deal, the Leafs have plenty of cap space to fit a 1 or 2 million dollar back-up goalie.

They have the cap space, they'd almost be stupid not to upgrade their back-up options given how much rubber Andersen faced last year.



Lehtonen and Mason > Pickard, Sparks, McElhinney. Fact.
- Unholy_Goalie

I don't think it's as clear-cut as you believe it is.

McElhinney put up career numbers; nobody expected him to do that, but nobody expects him to do that again either, so herein lies the problem.

To me, there are very few sure thing goalies in the NHL. Too many factors at play.

But having said that, Andersen proved he can handle the workload of a starter, so as long as he's getting a reasonable number of starts (~55) and enough rest (no back-to-backs, rest him against bottom 10 teams, etc.), then we have to give Sparks another shot, because it's an important part of the development process and a key to long-term success.

We need to hit some doubles and triples with our draft picks or guys in our system and you can't do that without giving them a shot.

Sparks is ready for that shot. He might even challenge Andersen at some point. Pickard is then free to be the man for the Marlies, take a run at Sparks' numbers.

That's how you build a farm system; you have to let guys earn it, over-ripen if you will, to set the expectations for everyone else.

If Babcock can't trust any goalie otger than Andersen, we may need to get someone. I hope Pickard is the guy.
- PatC80

I doubt the one game he sucked in last year didn't earn him much trust though.

False. Pickard doesn't have the experience nor the proven ability compared to Lehtonen or Mason hence why you constantly left out how many NHL games they played in.
- Unholy_Goalie

Career GAA, and SV%

Lehtonen: 2.71 - .912

Mason: 2.70 - .911

Pickard: 2.78 - .913


Fact

Those similar stats prove that he's not as good as mason or lehtonen though...
- burn

Career games > every other factor

Ryan Miller was a starter for years and became a very effective back-up last year. It's showing that they are capable NHL goalies compared to three guys who have been journeyman back-ups, AHLers or borderline NHLers.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yea those 24 and 26 year old AHLers, because so many goalies are starters by that age. There were only 4 goalies under 25 that were starters last season. All highly touted prospects in Murray, Vasilievskiy, Gibson and Hellebuyck. And only 2 more between 25 and 27, Lehner and Allen. Goalies take time, giving up on goalies at 24 and 26 is just bad use of assets, especially when one just won AHL Vezina and a calder and the other already has starting experience and his numbers we not bad when looking at the historically bad avs team.

If the Leafs were rebuilding still, keep the young guys. But considering the goal is to keep Andersen rested, the proven back-up is more ideal on a 1 year deal.
- Unholy_Goalie

Weren't you just arguing that those guys you're advocating for were/are starters and more proven? Now they're proven backups?

for me, those goalies are on the decline of their careers.
I'd rather have a goalie who's star is rising, cheap (so they can sign Karlsson) as the backup even if they have a bunch of cap space to use.
Then you could trade said goalie for a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Yup I do acknowledge my choice doesn't have much experience but how are they going to get that experience if you don't give them the opportunity to get it.

UG, please select all images with street signs, thanks.

UG, please select all images with street signs, thanks.



- As_I_See_It

I don't think it's as clear-cut as you believe it is.

McElhinney put up career numbers; nobody expected him to do that, but nobody expects him to do that again either, so herein lies the problem.

To me, there are very few sure thing goalies in the NHL. Too many factors at play.

But having said that, Andersen proved he can handle the workload of a starter, so as long as he's getting a reasonable number of starts (~55) and enough rest (no back-to-backs, rest him against bottom 10 teams, etc.), then we have to give Sparks another shot, because it's an important part of the development process and a key to long-term success.

We need to hit some doubles and triples with our draft picks or guys in our system and you can't do that without giving them a shot.

Sparks is ready for that shot. He might even challenge Andersen at some point. Pickard is then free to be the man for the Marlies, take a run at Sparks' numbers.

That's how you build a farm system; you have to let guys earn it, over-ripen if you will, to set the expectations for everyone else.
- gravyface

Sparks and Pickards odds of being starters are slim to none. If they were legit, top prospect, 20 or 21 year olds, that would be one thing. But they're not that good. It's not nearly as important to the development of goalies because the Leafs goaltending prospects are slim to none.

They should be developing goalies, but those two guys aren't likely to go anywhere past back-up status and for the coming year, they need a guarantee they can get 25-30 games out of their back-up, not a "hope" to "develop" a middle of the road back-up like Sparks or Pickard are likely to become.

Career GAA, and SV%

Lehtonen: 2.71 - .912

Mason: 2.70 - .911

Pickard: 2.78 - .913


Fact
- Steven_Seagull

Two of those goalies have 400+ games of NHL experience. One doesn't. Guess who?

Yea those 24 and 26 year old AHLers, because so many goalies are starters by that age. There were only 4 goalies under 25 that were starters last season. All highly touted prospects in Murray, Vasilievskiy, Gibson and Hellebuyck. And only 2 more between 25 and 27, Lehner and Allen. Goalies take time, giving up on goalies at 24 and 26 is just bad use of assets, especially when one just won AHL Vezina and a calder and the other already has starting experience and his numbers we not bad when looking at the historically bad avs team.
- harps43

Lehner did everything Sparks did at 21. So by prospect standards, Sparks isn't much of one. He was on a great Marlies team and his NHL stint wasn't that great. Sure he could improve but he can't guarantee you 25-30 quality starts the same way a proven NHL veteran could.

UG, please select all images with street signs, thanks.



- As_I_See_It

Two of those goalies have 400+ games of NHL experience. One doesn't. Guess who?
- Unholy_Goalie

The one we already have signed?

Weren't you just arguing that those guys you're advocating for were/are starters and more proven? Now they're proven backups?
- burn

They're proven NHL goalies who can be relied upon to be better back-ups. They're just better goalies, period.

If Babcock can't trust any goalie other than Andersen, we may need to get someone. I hope Pickard is the guy.
- PatC80

Quick.... To the Cloning Machine!

We need to clone us an Andersen!




ps: never clone a clone from a clone

The one we already have signed?
- Steven_Seagull

Pickard being signed doesn't make him the better NHL goalie. He was signed for the game he got lit up last year in the NHL. Didn't help him.

They're proven NHL goalies who can be relied upon to be better back-ups. They're just better goalies, period.
- Unholy_Goalie

Career GAA, and SV%

Lehtonen: 2.71 - .912

Mason: 2.70 - .911

Pickard: 2.78 - .913