this is like playing Triva pursuit for me. Ah Potvin? ooh not for the Leafs.

- dmnted

It's pretty brutal for even 1st round picks, let alone top 10-15 picks.

DiPietro? Malcolm Subban?

Didn't say he did. Read carefully.
- Unholy_Goalie

Show me?
But he isn't. Lehner won everything Sparks did, 4 years younger than Sparks did.

Because Lehner has proven more in the NHL, that's why.

Dallas actually got Ben Bishop but Lehtonen stealing the net back in Dallas has zero to do with the fact that he's a proven NHL goalie who played effectively in the NHL last year in 37 games, which is what the Leafs need from their back-up, not a question mark that leaves Andersen being overworked again.
- Unholy_Goalie

But he isn't. Lehner won everything Sparks did, 4 years younger than Sparks did.

Because Lehner has proven more in the NHL, that's why.

Dallas actually got Ben Bishop but Lehtonen stealing the net back in Dallas has zero to do with the fact that he's a proven NHL goalie who played effectively in the NHL last year in 37 games, which is what the Leafs need from their back-up, not a question mark that leaves Andersen being overworked again.
- Unholy_Goalie

They got Bishop this year... Because Lehtonen wasn't good enough and could barely outperform Niemi, why is this so hard to understand. And good for Lehner, last I checked everyone develops at different rates, last I checked he was still the best goalie in the AHL last year, so next step is NHL as a backup. You have to give them a chance or what is the point of even having a farm team and drafting players?

And how isn't Sparks comparable to Lehner, they had comparable numbers in the AHL when they both played 31 games. Lehner got a chance in the NHL as a backup because Ottawa needed one and they gave their kid a chance to develop. If the leafs didn't have a starter Sparks get a chance last year, but he didn't and went and put up an even better year.

Jury is in, Matt Murray is better than Sparks. If Sparks was really that good, he'd already have taken the net from Andersen. He's just not that good.

Or you can just sign one now and not have to trade anything to get one.
- Unholy_Goalie

I doubt sparks will ever be a starter. ..but he could prove us wrong. Goalies develop at different paces...especially ones that were as raw as sparks was and have since put in a lot of work and prep to get better. Tim Thomas as an example. Conversely...Steve Mason not putting in the work.

Didn't say he did. Read carefully.
- Unholy_Goalie

You implied it. You didn’t know Bishop got injured, and now you’re scrambling. lol

Mason is too busy playing tier 5 ball hockey every summer that he hasn't put in the work necessary to be a nhl goalie. He's khl bound.not worth the leafs time
- mykokes

He's played over 450 NHL games so yeah, he is an NHL goalie.

And with his NHL career on the line, that's not necessarily true.

They got Bishop this year... Because Lehtonen wasn't good enough and could barely outperform Niemi, why is this so hard to understand. And good for Lehner, last I checked everyone develops at different rates, last I checked he was still the best goalie in the AHL last year, so next step is NHL as a backup. You have to give them a chance or what is the point of even having a farm team and drafting players?
- harps43

You implied it. You didn’t know Bishop got injured, and now you’re scrambling. lol
- Steven_Seagull

Nope.

Nope.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yes.

Nope.
- Unholy_Goalie

Really? You said Lehtonen stole the net back. Now you're changing your story?

Really? You said Lehtonen stole the net back. Now you're changing your story?
- PatC80

UG being UG

- gravyface

I usually just read and ignore him but tonight it just got too stupid I could't resist

They got Bishop this year... Because Lehtonen wasn't good enough and could barely outperform Niemi, why is this so hard to understand. And good for Lehner, last I checked everyone develops at different rates, last I checked he was still the best goalie in the AHL last year, so next step is NHL as a backup. You have to give them a chance or what is the point of even having a farm team and drafting players?

And how isn't Sparks comparable to Lehner, they had comparable numbers in the AHL when they both played 31 games. Lehner got a chance in the NHL because Ottawa didn't have a starter. If the leafs didn't have a starter Sparks get a chance last year, but he didn't and went and put up an even better year.
- harps43

Again, getting Bishop or Lehtonen's ability or inability to steal the net from Niemi means (frank) all because we're not talking about him being a starter. It's established he's not being signed to be a starter. Lehtonen was an effective back-up last year. He played 37 games. That's what they need from their back-up. He was a starter for many years and has plenty of experience. He's a proven NHL goalie.

Lehner was much better and won everything in the AHL at a younger age. Sparks was good on a good Marlies team but overall, he's nothing special and he's far from proven in the NHL. Signing an NHL goalie is much more of a guarantee than Sparks is of giving the Leafs the 25-30 games they need from their back-up.

Really? You said Lehtonen stole the net back. Now you're changing your story?
- PatC80

I actually didn't.

Lehtonen has had 4 seasons to win the net back in Dallas against Niemi and he can't even do that, why would you want him...
- harps43

Dallas actually got Ben Bishop but Lehtonen stealing the net back in Dallas has zero to do with the fact that he's a proven NHL goalie who played effectively in the NHL last year in 37 games, which is what the Leafs need from their back-up, not a question mark that leaves Andersen being overworked again.
- Unholy_Goalie

You misread and misunderstood the point. I wasn't saying he stole the net back. I was saying his ability to steal it has nothing to do with him being an effective back-up.

I actually didn't.
- Unholy_Goalie

But he isn't. Lehner won everything Sparks did, 4 years younger than Sparks did.

Because Lehner has proven more in the NHL, that's why.

Dallas actually got Ben Bishop but Lehtonen stealing the net back in Dallas has zero to do with the fact that he's a proven NHL goalie who played effectively in the NHL last year in 37 games, which is what the Leafs need from their back-up, not a question mark that leaves Andersen being overworked again.
- Unholy_Goalie

I see

I actually didn't.





You misread and misunderstood the point. I wasn't saying he stole the net back. I was saying his ability to steal it has nothing to do with him being an effective back-up.
- Unholy_Goalie

So weak.

But he isn't. Lehner won everything Sparks did, 4 years younger than Sparks did.

Because Lehner has proven more in the NHL, that's why.

Dallas actually got Ben Bishop but Lehtonen stealing the net back in Dallas has zero to do with the fact that he's a proven NHL goalie who played effectively in the NHL last year in 37 games, which is what the Leafs need from their back-up, not a question mark that leaves Andersen being overworked again.
- Unholy_Goalie


- burn

Can't get a certain Trooper song out of my head for some reason.

I doubt sparks will ever be a starter. ..but he could prove us wrong. Goalies develop at different paces...especially ones that were as raw as sparks was and have since put in a lot of work and prep to get better. Tim Thomas as an example. Conversely...Steve Mason not putting in the work.
- mykokes

Even Reimer made the NHL jump earlier than Sparks on some pretty bad teams.

Goalies come from all over the place but Sparks just doesn't seem that impressive and for what the Leafs need right now (guaranteed 25-30 games) from their back-up, they're better off getting a more proven goalie.

So weak.
- burn

He didn’t know Bishop got injured. He thought future HOFer Lehtonen stole the starting job back.

At some point, do you not look in the mirror and say: "Self: why does everyone always disagree with me? For the longest time I thought I was always right, but this has been going on for years now. Is it possible that maybe I've been wrong this whole time? I might need to rethink my whole approach here..."

Again, getting Bishop or Lehtonen's ability or inability to steal the net from Niemi means (frank) all because we're not talking about him being a starter. It's established he's not being signed to be a starter. Lehtonen was an effective back-up last year. He played 37 games. That's what they need from their back-up. He was a starter for many years and has plenty of experience. He's a proven NHL goalie.

Lehner was much better and won everything in the AHL at a younger age. Sparks was good on a good Marlies team but overall, he's nothing special and he's far from proven in the NHL. Signing an NHL goalie is much more of a guarantee than Sparks is of giving the Leafs the 25-30 games they need from their back-up.
- Unholy_Goalie

He only played 37 games because Bishop was hurt. And if we aren't talking about them being a backup, why are we using their career stats as starters to determine if they are good backups? Starter numbers mean they are better until someone says they aren't good enough to be a starter?

And Lehner wasn't "much" better, their numbers were very comparable. Sure he is younger, are we going to ignore Sparks last season because he is too old?

Also, why the (frank) would Mason or Lehtonen even want to sign somewhere who already has a goalie log jam? Leafs have 4 goalies under contract competing for one backup stop, its going to be a competition no matter who is there, I don't see either career starter signing a contract to compete for a backup position.

At some point, do you not look in the mirror and say: "Self: why does everyone always disagree with me? For the longest time I thought I was always right, but this has been going on for years now. Is it possible that maybe I've been wrong this whole time? I might need to rethink my whole approach here..."
- gravyface

He couldn’t handle that much introspection. Might trigger his inferiority complex.

He only played 37 games because Bishop was hurt. And if we aren't talking about them being a starter, why are we using their career stats as starters to determine if they are good backups? Starter numbers mean they are better until someone says they aren't good enough to be a starter?
- harps43

The Leafs don't need him to be a starter nor do they need him to play 37 or more games. 25-30 games would do just fine.

Because it proves they're NHL goalies. Ryan Miller was a starter for years, last year he was a very effective back-up. These guys can't be starters anymore but they can be back-ups.

And Lehner wasn't "much" better, their numbers were very comparable. Sure he is younger, are we going to ignore Sparks last season because he is too old?

Lehner was better and won more at a younger age, made the NHL jump younger and has been better the whole time.

Also, why the (frank) would Mason or Lehtonen even want to sign somewhere who already has a goalie log jam? Leafs have 4 goalies under contract competing for one backup stop, its going to be a competition no matter who is there, I don't see either career starter signing a contract to compete for a backup position.

Because they should get rid of McElhinney and Sparks and sign one of them so they can give themselves a more guaranteed option behind Andersen instead of a couple of question marks and risk Andersen being overworked again like he was last year.