Wow LBR, if you weren't a woman you would be Da Man!!

Where did I recently read the trend of NHL Dmen getting smaller every yr the past 5ish yrs? Think it was The Athletic. I'm assuming you read the same thing although your post goes into much more detail than what I read but the common denominator is there is simply no doubt that the NHL as a whole has gone the way of the smaller skating/puck moving/attacking Dman.

But at the same time I agree with posters who say the Hawks are smallish in general. Now that doesn't always mean small in stature but some/too many Hawks play small.

But that's the way the Hawks draft, period. The numbers 1,2,3,4,5 priority for the Hawks organIzation when drafting is speed/skill/IQ with size or grit an after thought.
- Mr Ricochet

Exactly right. Dahlstrom listed at 6'4" 224lbs and he was soft as cotton in his limited NHL time last year.

Toews and Seabrook, unsurprisingly, the 2 most overrated players in the Central Division per the Penguins blogger. Hard to argue against him...

Dare I suggest that the Blackhawks are not currently a desired destination team for good players??
- Return of the Roar

No you are exactly right, plus I was told by a former high-ranking employee of the Blackhawks years back, that the wives have a lot to say also when it comes to relocation, would you want to live in this garbage with the current administration running the show in Cityhall? All these damn protests and road shut downs and everything else? I think their agents are all telling them stay away! By no means am I trying to turn this into a political topic, but most of these guys are married with small kids now and their wives do have a lot to say about it.

Toews and Seabrook, unsurprisingly, the 2 most overrated players in the Central Division per the Penguins blogger. Hard to argue against him...
- EnzoD

I know people are unhappy with how the last couple seasons shook out, myself included, but honestly it seems like a lot of posters here are actively trying to find things to help their case in rooting against the Hawks.

It may not be what you intended with your post, but it seems like you are pleased that other people are acknowledging 2 of the Hawks players as overrated.

Its not just you, i see it with other posters as well.

I dont get it.

I know people are unhappy with how the last couple seasons shook out, myself included, but honestly it seems like a lot of posters here are actively trying to find things to help their case in rooting against the Hawks.

It may not be what you intended with your post, but it seems like you are pleased that other people are acknowledging 2 of the Hawks players as overrated.

Its not just you, i see it with other posters as well.

I dont get it.
- BlazinMike

The comment was more of an open invitation for someone to argue that they are not overrated...

The comment was more of an open invitation for someone to argue that they are not overrated...
- EnzoD

ah, good one

Toews and Seabrook, unsurprisingly, the 2 most overrated players in the Central Division per the Penguins blogger. Hard to argue against him...
- EnzoD

Fortunately for them, they still have plenty of time to earn their contracts. I remember a few years ago, many hockey fans pegged Sidney Crosby as done. How did that turn out? Are 7 or 19 living up to their contracts? No. If the Hawks were to remove Toews from their lineup, are they a better team? Who fills his 1C void? Even when people talk about removing Seabrook from the lineup, who will replace him that is better? Both of these guys were anchors to three cup teams...how many NHL fans would have loved to enjoy the successes of these two players?

As of now, I still don't think they are done. I am pretty excited to see how this team rebounds this upcoming season.

No you are exactly right, plus I was told by a former high-ranking employee of the Blackhawks years back, that the wives have a lot to say also when it comes to relocation, would you want to live in this garbage with the current administration running the show in Cityhall? All these damn protests and road shut downs and everything else? I think their agents are all telling them stay away! By no means am I trying to turn this into a political topic, but most of these guys are married with small kids now and their wives do have a lot to say about it.
- wonthecup10

I was thinking about this more in terms of who would want to play for this team as currently constructed - i.e. - not a contender, not gonna be one for a while kind of thing.

Size must matter....

What was the average size of the D men on the rosters of this years semi-finalist teams versus the rest of the league?

The OP on this issue specifically noted what the WINNING teams' defensive corps looked like.

Yes, how big these guys are is not everything, but ADB vs Hedman, for example is not a favorable matchup. Just like Alex Tuch vs. Jordan Oesterle not a good matchup either.

Seems to be more than coincidence that the four best teams last year had bigger dudes on the back end.
- Return of the Roar

If we're talking about winning teams, then you should go back more than a year, and most teams that have won fall inside the 195-205 range. I'll post numbers going back 10 years shortly.

As for last season finalists:

Caps: average was 6'1" and 202.2 lbs
6'3" 218, 6'0" 194, 5'11" 212, 6'1" 203, 6'3" 217, 6'0" 169
Top 4: big, smaller, big, and average

Knights: average was 6'2" and 203.3 lbs
6'1" 194, 6'2" 195, 6'2" 214, 6'4 212, 6'2" 209, 6'1" 196
Top 4: smaller, average, big, big

So pretty much average overall. Balanced with some big, at least one smaller, and some average sized guys.

Edit to add: Lightning should have beat Caps and Jets should have beat Knights if big defense mattered most - both were the heaviest d-core in the playoffs and outweighed their final 4 match-up by at least 10 lbs. Tampa was still the smallest team in the playoffs (and league) last year thought. Knights were average while Jets/Caps were bigger teams. Little bit of everything in the final 4 teams last year.

Fortunately for them, they still have plenty of time to earn their contracts. I remember a few years ago, many hockey fans pegged Sidney Crosby as done. How did that turn out? Are 7 or 19 living up to their contracts? No. If the Hawks were to remove Toews from their lineup, are they a better team? Who fills his 1C void? Even when people talk about removing Seabrook from the lineup, who will replace him that is better? Both of these guys were anchors to three cup teams...how many NHL fans would have loved to enjoy the successes of these two players?

As of now, I still don't think they are done. I am pretty excited to see how this team rebounds this upcoming season.
- frafra

Yeah this is the worst time of year for sports fans. I do not understand how anyone can watch a baseball game on TV.... I can't wait to watch Kane + Schmaltz + Debrincat as they are offensive game-breakers and entertaining. Very interested to see how Saad, Toews, Seabrook and Keith respond this fall to their terrible seasons last year. Would love to see Jokiharju make the jump and show that he is a legit top pairing prospect. Only 5 weeks until College Football.....

Yeah this is the worst time of year for sports fans. I do not understand how anyone can watch a baseball game on TV.... I can't wait to watch Kane + Schmaltz + Debrincat as they are offensive game-breakers and entertaining. Very interested to see how Saad, Toews, Seabrook and Keith respond this fall to their terrible seasons last year. Would love to see Jokiharju make the jump and show that he is a legit top pairing prospect. Only 5 weeks until College Football.....
- EnzoD

I know after last years kick in the stomach season for the Blackhawks, it is really difficult to find any hope. But... I think it is exciting as a fan to see how these guys rebound, and how their younger faces continue to grow. Not many people are a fan of the Cam Ward signing, but again, if Crawford is healthy, Crawford/Ward are a legitimate duo. If Crawford is out again, Ward/Forsberg are better than what they had last season.

Call me crazy, but I am pretty excited to see what a healthy Marcus Kruger has left in him. He could be a huge x-factor for filling that bottom C role, killing PK minutes, and winning face offs. I also don't think Kunitz was the worse signing. Were there better players to go out and get? Absolutely. Im thankful the contracts that were given were short term, and nothing StanBo will have to try and move out down the road.

I am also excited to see what Jokiharju looks like. If he makes the roster, and Forsling takes the next step, I don't think the Hawks blue line will be nearly as bad.

Toews and Seabrook, unsurprisingly, the 2 most overrated players in the Central Division per the Penguins blogger. Hard to argue against him...
- EnzoD

I think people mix up the words Overrated and Overpaid.

I think people mix up the words Overrated and Overpaid.
- HawksHype

yes. agree. spot on.

If that happens this team is screwed. For as many Larry Robinson examples of great players being great coaches, there are far many more of it not working out....including the greatest player of all time in Gretzky.
- SteveRain

Because talent can’t be taught. That’s the reason behind this.

The Preds have signed Hamhuis to a 2 year deal. The Central keeps getting better while Stan keeps sleeping.


- DarthKane

Hamhuis is 35 now isn't he? Not sure Darth whether you're being cynical or not anymore...pretty hard to read you at this juncture. Wasn't Hamhuis the guy that didn't want to get traded here a couple years back when the Hawks badly needed a dman...because it was too far east.

Would he have been an upgrade over Manning? Convention should be interesting to say the least...

Hamhuis is 35 now isn't he? Not sure Darth whether you're being cynical or not anymore...pretty hard to read you at this juncture. Wasn't Hamhuis the guy that didn't want to get traded here a couple years back when the Hawks badly needed a dman...because it was too far east.

Would he have been an upgrade over Manning? Convention should be interesting to say the least...
- DK002

Hamhuis did not want to be traded anywhere in-season because of his family. The only known destination that he for sure said NO to was to Dallas, though.

And no, he wouldn't be an upgrade on Manning. He too is a bottom pairing d-man.

Hamhuis did not want to be traded anywhere in-season because of his family. The only known destination that he for sure said NO to was to Dallas, though.

And no, he wouldn't be an upgrade on Manning. He too is a bottom pairing d-man.
- L_B_R

Hamhuis is insurance in case of injury to one of there d man he is basically a pylon and has his best days behind him. Depth d man that knows the organization.

I think people mix up the words Overrated and Overpaid.
- HawksHype

Precisely. I think it also matters (quite a bit) who you are asking. If you ask most Chicago fans, I don't think they are overrated at all. They are almost perfectly rated as good but no longer great.

Ask the "national" guys (cough, Pierre McGuire, cough), and yes he is very likely overrated.

I think people mix up the words Overrated and Overpaid.
- HawksHype

BINGO

No you are exactly right, plus I was told by a former high-ranking employee of the Blackhawks years back, that the wives have a lot to say also when it comes to relocation, would you want to live in this garbage with the current administration running the show in Cityhall? All these damn protests and road shut downs and everything else? I think their agents are all telling them stay away! By no means am I trying to turn this into a political topic, but most of these guys are married with small kids now and their wives do have a lot to say about it.
- wonthecup10

Yet, you have women like Mrs. Sharp and Mrs. Campbell and Mrs. Wingel all begging to come back, even at a steep discount. In the rarefied air world of Lincoln Park etc., not much of what you mention touches them.

And, Kuc mentioned outright that Stan had been turned down by many of the FAs he went after this offseason. Reasons he gave: 1) teams have caught up on the benefits and atmosphere for players (Panik's "they serve us breakfast!" shock still makes me laugh) and, most importantly, 2) the team is no longer seen as a contender.

Yet, you have women like Mrs. Sharp and Mrs. Campbell and Mrs. Wingel all begging to come back, even at a steep discount. In the rarefied air world of Lincoln Park etc., not much of what you mention touches them.

And, Kuc mentioned outright that Stan had been turned down by many of the FAs he went after this offseason. Reasons he gave: 1) teams have caught up on the benefits and atmosphere for players (Panik's "they serve us breakfast!" shock still makes me laugh) and, most importantly, 2) the team is no longer seen as a contender.
- pdx2ord

Worse than that, the Blackhawks are about to transition, a little or a lot, in the next year. That will probably include Q leaving, maybe Stan leaving, maybe some or more than some of the core leaving. Then what? Why would a free agent make a long term commitment to a team that could be significantly different a year from now?

That's why I like the idea of adding a player with a year (or maybe two) of term on their contract. Have a good season, then reassess.

Yet, you have women like Mrs. Sharp and Mrs. Campbell and Mrs. Wingel all begging to come back, even at a steep discount. In the rarefied air world of Lincoln Park etc., not much of what you mention touches them.

And, Kuc mentioned outright that Stan had been turned down by many of the FAs he went after this offseason. Reasons he gave: 1) teams have caught up on the benefits and atmosphere for players (Panik's "they serve us breakfast!" shock still makes me laugh) and, most importantly, 2) the team is no longer seen as a contender.
- pdx2ord

The Hawks aren't the top contenders they use to be nor are they perennial bottom dwellers who overpay for 4th liners (see Canucks, Vancouver). I'm glad Stan didn't pay $3 million for the likes of Beagle or Roussel. The UFA market wasn't stellar this summer, the Hawks haven't missed our on much.

Success in sports tends to be cyclical, the Hawks are on the natural slide from their pinnacle of 3 Cups. The real questions is how long will the slide last and when will they hit bottom. Stan's job is too reload the team as effectively and quickly as possible. I'd bet on one more disappointing season then things start to improve.

Hamhuis is 35 now isn't he? Not sure Darth whether you're being cynical or not anymore...pretty hard to read you at this juncture. Wasn't Hamhuis the guy that didn't want to get traded here a couple years back when the Hawks badly needed a dman...because it was too far east.

Would he have been an upgrade over Manning? Convention should be interesting to say the least...
- DK002

- DarthKane

It's true, you are Deadpool!

John Jaeckel‏ @jaeckel · 4h4 hours ago

. . . also hearing today, Hawk brass having a hard time agreeing among eachother on deals/moves. Holding things up. All for now.

I'm normally not one to gossip as such, but if this is true, we are effed.

Dysfunction at the top always leads to dysfunction at the bottom. It is just a matter of time.