Steve Carlton had a nice curveball.
Steve Mason was a goalie.
There, both sports covered
- Konalover

Carlton had a nice slider!!!

Carlton had a nice slider!!!
- MBFlyerfan

Yup, pretty good fastball too

Mitch Walding should move to Center.

This Michael Vorobyev is an interesting prospect. At 6’2’ 210 pounds and a fairly successful first pro year at the AHL (29 points in 58 games) is decent. Played in the KHL the year before. The word is responsible 2 way player with a high hockey IQ.

Would be interested in getting an opinion of those who have seen him play. Didn’t catch any Phantom games.
- peesinwind

Been a Misha Vorobyev fan for awhile. The best way I'd describe his game and potential is discount Sean Couturier, if he stayed as 3Couturier. He's not the best skater but it's comfortably average at his size, and he's such a detailed player. More pass first though, but he's a solid playmaker.

We got really lucky landing Patrick at #2 and then striking gold with Frost the same night. If we didn't, Vorobyev would likely be viewed as a strong long-term middle 6 option and not a bottom 6/4C option. He has more potential than that, though maybe not here. It will help that he could lock down a roster spot before the other kids though to carve out a role. If Frost gets sent back, I really hope Misha stays up. Or both! I really think Vorobyev isn't far from ready or even ready perhaps. He'll thrive with smarter players and more structure and a year of NA hockey already under his belt.

Oh yeah. He's also a pimp.

I am leaning towards resigning Simmonds. 5 years 33 mil or something. Somewhat changing my tune. Make sure there are no NTCs in the deal or anything that would prevent you from being able to expose him in the expansion draft. So they take him or jvr most likely.

You won’t be able to do anything better in free agency and kids like Allison/sushko aren’t ready.

Is this going to be a deal that the flyers “win” from on ice play? Chances are low..like 20% low. You don’t have to win them all. I am a believer in kids coming in and taking spots from vets. So if he eventually finds himself on a 4th line in 2 or 3 years at the expense of an entry level or bridge deals further up in the lineup...what difference does it make? I think he slides down to a shot heavy PP2 in the near future which would be a benefit to younger players on that unit. Having a player like him to dig in the corners and muck the front of the net.

6.5 mil for 5 years seems right. That is not going to constrain their cap at all moving forward, won’t prevent them from keeping their young players, even with jvr. You keep a leader and warrior around for this youth movement to help patrol it

Jfc.

I think the chances are low that he ends up being worth his entire contract.

There are 2 realistic scenarios: he signs a long term contract or he gets traded/walks. If you sign him to market value, which is most likely 6 million per year over 5 or 6 yrs, he most likely won't cut it 3 years in. Or you make a logical but tough trade. If that happens, I'll be sad to see him go.

If he signs and it "works out" that means he'd sign like a 3 year deal. Which I think we can both agree is a pretty slim possibility.
- Giroux_Is_God

Moving 32-34 year old players signed long-term is easy, man. Especially if they get less usage to produce or struggle, hence you wanting to move them. Everyone knows this.

I am leaning towards resigning Simmonds. 5 years 33 mil or something. Somewhat changing my tune. Make sure there are no NTCs in the deal or anything that would prevent you from being able to expose him in the expansion draft. So they take him or jvr most likely.

You won’t be able to do anything better in free agency and kids like Allison/sushko aren’t ready.

Is this going to be a deal that the flyers “win” from on ice play? Chances are low..like 20% low. You don’t have to win them all. I am a believer in kids coming in and taking spots from vets. So if he eventually finds himself on a 4th line in 2 or 3 years at the expense of an entry level or bridge deals further up in the lineup...what difference does it make? I think he slides down to a shot heavy PP2 in the near future which would be a benefit to younger players on that unit. Having a player like him to dig in the corners and muck the front of the net.

6.5 mil for 5 years seems right. That is not going to constrain their cap at all moving forward, won’t prevent them from keeping their young players, even with jvr. You keep a leader and warrior around for this youth movement to help patrol it
- Just5

5 years at 6.5? Man, I would not be thrilled with that. I'm at 4 years at 5 million at most.

I guess I just have faith that some of these prospects are going to be filtering into the bottom six in the next two years with our top four wingers of G,Jake,JVR & Konecny already in place. If we keep Simmonds that leaves one spot in the top 9 for Farabee, Ratcliffe, Allison for the foreseeable future with Simmonds signed that long.

5 years at 6.5? Man, I would not be thrilled with that. I'm at 4 years at 5 million at most.

I guess I just have faith that some of these prospects are going to be filtering into the bottom six in the next two years with our top four wingers of G,Jake,JVR & Konecny already in place. If we keep Simmonds that leaves one spot in the top 9 for Farabee, Ratcliffe, Allison for the foreseeable future with Simmonds signed that long.
- hereticpride

JVR is the player taken in the expansion draft imo.

JVR is the player taken in the expansion draft imo.
- flyer_nutter

He very well could be but I'm not giving Simmonds a big extention just expecting that to happen.

Jfc.



Moving 32-34 year old players signed long-term is easy, man. Especially if they get less usage to produce or struggle, hence you wanting to move them. Everyone knows this.
- Mononoke

It's gonna go from "dude 50 point, 30 goal players don't grow on trees!" to "Remember when he scored 30 goals? Hell of a player in his prime" real quick.

5 years at 6.5? Man, I would not be thrilled with that. I'm at 4 years at 5 million at most.

- hereticpride

Amen.

It's gonna go from "dude 50 point, 30 goal players don't grow on trees!" to "Remember when he scored 30 goals? Hell of a player in his prime" real quick.
- Giroux_Is_God

people loved matt read for years after he once scored 20 goals in a season

He very well could be but I'm not giving Simmonds a big extention just expecting that to happen.
- hereticpride

I find it hard to believe the flyers will be reaching into ufa for practically anything in the future unless something goes really wrong with the defensive prospects. Maybe they look for a top 4 Dman next summer. But again things would have to go haywire. So they can afford to keep this still pretty darn good player on the ice. An outstanding player/person in the room which I think means a lot, even though you can’t look it up in a chart

I find it hard to believe the flyers will be reaching into ufa for practically anything in the future unless something goes really wrong with the defensive prospects. Maybe they look for a top 4 Dman next summer. But again things would have to go haywire. So they can afford to keep this still pretty darn good player on the ice. An outstanding player/person in the room which I think means a lot, even though you can’t look it up in a chart
- Just5

I mean, sure. But I just don't see Hextall going all in on Simmonds like that. I'm basically looking at Simmonds as a free agent and I don't see Hextall making that kind of offer to him.

It's gonna go from "dude 50 point, 30 goal players don't grow on trees!" to "Remember when he scored 30 goals? Hell of a player in his prime" real quick.
- Giroux_Is_God

It’s very possible he remains a very useful player. Dustin brown scored 59 last year in a resurgence. Let’s say the kings didn’t have Dustin brown and had an extra 6 mil this summer. What would they have done with it? Maybe they sign jvr to the big deal? Having a bunch of cap space isn’t so powerful anymore when you see these recent ufa classes.

Hexy gave us ghost and coots long term at a combined 8.83 cap hit. I see no reason why the good times won’t continue rolling when it comes to locking in the kids on solid deals

move on from simmonds after this year
his body has gone through a lot of wear and tear
we should try to get whatever we can get for him and let someone else gamble on that

It’s very possible he remains a very useful player. Dustin brown scored 59 last year in a resurgence. Let’s say the kings didn’t have Dustin brown and had an extra 6 mil this summer. What would they have done with it? Maybe they sign jvr to the big deal? Having a bunch of cap space isn’t so powerful anymore when you see these recent ufa classes
- Just5

yea but we can get draft picks and/or assets for simmonds

I mean, sure. But I just don't see Hextall going all in on Simmonds like that. I'm basically looking at Simmonds as a free agent and I don't see Hextall making that kind of offer to him.
- hereticpride

He just gave jvr 7. Jvr is at .38 goal per game. Simmonds at .36 over the last 3 years.

Simmonds is going to get 5 yrs 6 mil at a bare minimal. I don’t know why Hextall wouldn’t offer a deal like that to him unless he has serious cap concerns

Been a Misha Vorobyev fan for awhile. The best way I'd describe his game and potential is discount Sean Couturier, if he stayed as 3Couturier. He's not the best skater but it's comfortably average at his size, and he's such a detailed player. More pass first though, but he's a solid playmaker.

We got really lucky landing Patrick at #2 and then striking gold with Frost the same night. If we didn't, Vorobyev would likely be viewed as a strong long-term middle 6 option and not a bottom 6/4C option. He has more potential than that, though maybe not here. It will help that he could lock down a roster spot before the other kids though to carve out a role. If Frost gets sent back, I really hope Misha stays up. Or both! I really think Vorobyev isn't far from ready or even ready perhaps. He'll thrive with smarter players and more structure and a year of NA hockey already under his belt.

Oh yeah. He's also a pimp.


- Mononoke

Wow! Nice recommendation. He keeps popping up and I haven’t heard anything that doesn’t paint a picture of a NHL talent. I like the 3Couturier type player. How did a kid like this slip so far down the draft list. Maybe the Russian factor and that he was already in the KHL system.

I also can't put Simmonds off ice leadership into my consideration to re-sign him. This team is young, sure. But they aren't full of newbies. G, Jake and JVR have a ton of experience. Coots might only be 25 but he's got 7 seasons of NHL hockey under his belt. Provy plays like a vet and hell, even AMac has a ton of games.

Sure, Simmonds will fight anyone but that part of the game is getting less important in the grand scheme of things year after year. You love to see guys stick up for each other but the biggest thing that came out of Simmonds fighting this past season was a self inflicted hand injury. Is it really worth it anymore?

It’s very possible he remains a very useful player. Dustin brown scored 59 last year in a resurgence. Let’s say the kings didn’t have Dustin brown and had an extra 6 mil this summer. What would they have done with it? Maybe they sign jvr to the big deal? Having a bunch of cap space isn’t so powerful anymore when you see these recent ufa classes.

Hexy gave us ghost and coots long term at a combined 8.83 cap hit. I see no reason why the good times won’t continue rolling when it comes to locking in the kids on solid deals
- Just5

Brown saw first line minutes alongside Kopitar for most of the season. Played 680 mins with him according to cosica, and leftwinglock had him playing 1RW for them. I think it's doubtful Simmonds sees those minutes, and I think it's doubtful he will play with a player as quality as Kopitar. Our top 6 is most likely going to be G/Coots/Jake and TK/Patrick/JVR, or some combo thereof. It's pretty evident Simmonds will play on the third line, though things can change with injuries or line shuffling.

I'm not a Simmonds hater. I understand how important he is in the locker room. I do think he's going to bounce back this season assuming he's healthy. I think he has some more useful seasons left. But I just don't think he has 4+ $6 million seasons left in him. We have Frost, Allison, Vorobyev, and Ratcliffe poised to come on the scene in what would be the early years of a Simmonds extension, coupled with Farabee and O'Brien in the later years...we could be seeing a $6 million healthy scratch in 2023 for example. Because of this, I think it would be unwise to sign him to a 5+ season contract which is pretty likely and honestly reasonable and common for a player of his age. What do you do with a still useful player who may not be a good candidate to re-sign long term? Trade him. That's the though process for me.

Could they sign him for a longer term and it works out for everyone, where he turns into a bit of a net-front PP specialist seeing sheltered 3rd line minutes? Maybe. But I think the risk of him being an albatross outweighs the chance of him playing up to his contract.

I also can't put Simmonds off ice leadership into my consideration to re-sign him. This team is young, sure. But they aren't full of newbies. G, Jake and JVR have a ton of experience. Coots might only be 25 but he's got 7 seasons of NHL hockey under his belt. Provy plays like a vet and hell, even AMac has a ton of games.

Sure, Simmonds will fight anyone but that part of the game is getting less important in the grand scheme of things year after year. You love to see guys stick up for each other but the biggest thing that came out of Simmonds fighting this past season was a self inflicted hand injury. Is it really worth it anymore?
- hereticpride

I think there’s about a 53% chance that it could be

Well, he didn't really come out of nowhere. He was a touted Minnesota HS prospect. HockeyProspect (the scouting service) was very high on him and him in the 50s or 60s, so he was on my radar just from that pre-draft. I remember reading that Chris Pryor had a connection to Stillwater, where Cates is from. I was definitely happy they picked him in the 5th.

I watched him like 3 times this season. Once early, when he was struggling to produce, and twice later. He started off the season with 5 points in 13 games, so it made you wonder (even if he looked alright on tape and adjusting to a higher level is always a thing, especially from HS), but he finished with 50 points in 47 games and was a top 10 USHL point getter. I don't think some people realize how hard it is to score in the more defensive USHL. Point/game is high end production, unlike CHL. So, he under the radar ended up having the season you'd hope for.

Scouting wise, Cates checks a lot of Flyers scouting boxes -- good and bad. He's really high IQ and always in great position. His forechecking and below the dots games is a strength, and he has a wide build where he can puck protect well. He's got above average hands and versatile skill. I imagine he'll excel more as a 2-way PWF type. The bad is his skating needs some work, but he's not classically slow either. It's more power skating and form work, as he can be a little short with his stride and it isn't the prettiest. Decently quick feet in tight though, not bad edge work. I'm definitely excited to see him at the college level. I don't think you need to go overboard right now projecting upside -- maybe a 3rd liner realistic upside but who knows? -- but there could definitely be an NHL player there. I don't think he's on a different tier than players like NAK, Kase, Lycksell, Strome, Sushko.
- Mononoke

I ranked him 7th

I ranked him 7th
- YuenglingJagr

Brown saw first line minutes alongside Kopitar for most of the season. Played 680 mins with him according to cosica, and leftwinglock had him playing 1RW for them. I think it's doubtful Simmonds sees those minutes, and I think it's doubtful he will play with a player as quality as Kopitar. Our top 6 is most likely going to be G/Coots/Jake and TK/Patrick/JVR, or some combo thereof. It's pretty evident Simmonds will play on the third line, though things can change with injuries or line shuffling.

I'm not a Simmonds hater. I do think he's going to bounce back this season assuming he's healthy. I think he has some more useful seasons left. But I just don't think he has 4+ $6 million seasons left in him. We have Frost, Allison, Vorobyev, and Ratcliffe poised to come on the scene in what would be the early years of a Simmonds extension, coupled with Farabee and O'Brien in the later years...we could be seeing a $6 million healthy scratch in 2023 for example. Because of this, I think it would be unwise to sign him to a 5+ season contract which is pretty likely and honestly reasonable and common for a player of his age. What do you do with a still useful player who may not be a good candidate to re-sign long term? Trade him. That's the though process for me.

Could they sign him for a longer term and it works out for everyone, where he turns into a bit of a net-front PP specialist seeing sheltered 3rd line minutes? Maybe. But I think the risk of him being an albatross outweighs the chance of him playing up to his contract.
- Giroux_Is_God

I won’t argue with any of this. These are all good points. This is a really really tough call and I can see both sides.

I might be in the minority where I won’t be upset if they lose him for nothing. I fully understand if they want to have another year of information on their prospects before they make the call and wind up being in a playoff race their hands are tied. Easy to sit here in July and say we’ll their not a serious contender anyway they should trade him....etc etc. What if they can’t find a trade that makes them better right now? Sometimes you lose something for nothing