Thanks for the response. All good points.

I do believe that the GM's are ultimately rated based on their drafting a trades. So I consider the scouts and extension for the GM. I think Smith was in charge of 4 drafts and 22 of the picks ended up playing in the NHL. I'm pretty sure it is still among one of the most fruitful drafting periods in Hawk history if not the NHL. Granted many made the NHL because the team was so bad that there wasn't much ahead of them but that is for another debate that not even the hard core buzzers would read.

I also believe that 50% of first round picks play at least 300 games in the NHL. You are right that it does seem that the first 15 make it and the next don't but it really isn't true because there are busts up and down the first round.

I am a overall Bowman fan. Mostly because he got Kane and Toews to sign those $6 million contracts when the could have got more and I think Kane in particular was in a position to demand more that $10.5. I contend that Kane is underpaid. Toews is overpaid. Seabrook is overpaid. Duncan Keith is one of the biggest bargains in the league. I think Bowman went for the Cup year after year and the 3 Cups prove he knew what he was doing. Many think there would have been a 4th if the puck had not bounced in off of Leddy but I am not 100% convinced. I recall that Hjalmarsson was hurt in that game, broken foot. We all know now what the Hawks D looks like without him and I think the Rangers would have been a tough out that year without 4.

I don't like drafting offensive defensemen with high picks because they rarely turn out to be solid, the coaches doghouse them and our experience in Chicago with Barker, Babchuk, Royer, McCarthy and others is that they can't replicate what they did against future bloggers.

I think Bowman deserves 10 more years at GM. Based on how many chances they gave Pulford I want to see what Bowman can do coming up from the bottom. We know he can win from the top.
- stevefrmglencoe

Might be wrong but thought it was Oduya...which was at least in part the reason IIRC Stan held onto Nick Orr too long for some people's liking, because they weren't sure Oduya would be ready to start the season.

It took Oduya almost 3/4's or 2/3's of that season to get back to his old self.

Looks like there was more to the story than some quotes posted earlier (bolded) from Toews (reported from the Herald/John Dietz)...

"If you sneak in it doesn't matter. You can go a long ways," Toews said. "For us, thinking of, 'OK, we're going to win a Cup this year. It sounds like a longshot.'

"But, as always, our No. 1 goal is getting back to the playoffs and being ready to hit our stride when we get there."

Toews laughed when asked how much playoff hockey he watched, saying "more than usual." And at one point, he thought about how amazing it was the Hawks had reached the playoffs for nine straight seasons.

"Obviously, there's no satisfaction there, but you understand it's not the worst thing to stop and smell the roses and appreciate what you've been able to experience," Toews said. "Because failing to get to the playoffs makes you realize how difficult it really is and maybe it's something you took for granted.

"But watching more hockey this spring is something that was really motivating and inspiring and exciting to want to get back to that level again.

"You dream of playing in the NHL, but at the end of the day, you want to play playoff hockey. That's what it's all about."

Looks like there was more to the story than some quotes posted earlier (bolded) from Toews (reported from the Herald/John Dietz)...

"If you sneak in it doesn't matter. You can go a long ways," Toews said. "For us, thinking of, 'OK, we're going to win a Cup this year. It sounds like a longshot.'

"But, as always, our No. 1 goal is getting back to the playoffs and being ready to hit our stride when we get there."

Toews laughed when asked how much playoff hockey he watched, saying "more than usual." And at one point, he thought about how amazing it was the Hawks had reached the playoffs for nine straight seasons.

"Obviously, there's no satisfaction there, but you understand it's not the worst thing to stop and smell the roses and appreciate what you've been able to experience," Toews said. "Because failing to get to the playoffs makes you realize how difficult it really is and maybe it's something you took for granted.

"But watching more hockey this spring is something that was really motivating and inspiring and exciting to want to get back to that level again.

"You dream of playing in the NHL, but at the end of the day, you want to play playoff hockey. That's what it's all about."
- HawkintheD

Might as well take the old bull out behind the barn and end his worthless existence.

The play isn't the problem - the players making those plays are.

Truth of the matter is the Hawks played 20 rookies last season and they clearly were not up to playing on the level the vets are accustomed to, and that dragged them down - not only that but guys like Toews and Keith were overworked... With the Hawks teams of the past everyone was on the same page and those outlet passes were second nature to them, but the kids have never played on that level - they're rookies and they're going to make rookie mistakes... I'm sure the kids will be a lot better this season after an NHL season under their belt, a Calder Cup run and a summer to get stronger both mentally and physically... Kids that age can grow tremendously over the course of a summer....I mean some fans are acting like these kids have reached their ceiling, when many have only scratched the surface of their potential.. I know last season was painful to watch but the kids are NHL ready and the only way they're going to further their development is by playing in the league.

And if it matters that stretch pass has worked more times than not, I bet anything that stretch passed lead to more goals than it has steals the turned into goals...

Besides that stretch pass is a difficult pass to defend against - if the checker tries to break up the pass and he misses it it's an odd man rush for the Hawks, if not a breakaway... Guys like Keith know what they're doing with the stretch pass..
- Savard2Secord

I appreciate the reasonable response to a smartass suggestion, but in my opinion any player that has two defenders waiting for him to receive a pass is going to have a problem. That suggests to me there's an issue with the system. Like the other coach has it figured out and is ready for it. That's not a players thing, and that is a problem.

I appreciate the reasonable response to a smartass suggestion, but in my opinion any player that has two defenders waiting for him to receive a pass is going to have a problem. That suggests to me there's an issue with the system. Like the other coach has it figured out and is ready for it. That's not a players thing, and that is a problem.
- 6628

In total agreement with you here 66 (BTW, hope you are well). Has been an issue for me forever with Q - I gave him his due with the 3 CUPS. However, plenty of evidence over those years of his unwillingness to shift thinking on approach when an opposing coach/team has made adjustments and we keep banging our heads on the cement wall thinking eventually our system will prevail.

It's also that philosophy that has allowed Daley (twice) and Kempny to raise a CUP when our HOF coach couldn't figure out a way to integrate their specific toolkits into THE SYSTEM.

Remember when JJ wanted to trade Kane For Nash?


Good times, good times.

#badforthebrand
- Ogilthorpe2

Was it Kane? I thought it was Sharp

There have been some off-seasons when I do my morning routine of checking my favorite hockey blog sites in hopes to find Stan has made a trade or signed a free agent. This off-season is the opposite because now when I do my morning routine of checking my favorite hockey blog sites I hope to find that Stan has not made a trade or signed a free agent, i.e. not "f'd up" the future by trading tomorrows players for today's band aid. If it looks like the Hawks have a chance to do something when the TDL rolls around - then fine, do what is possible to try to win this season - just don't do anything until this team proves it on the ice over better than 50% of the season.

Was it Kane? I thought it was Sharp
- jhawk159

Nope...that particular time it was Kane.

Remember when JJ wanted to trade Kane For Nash?


Good times, good times.

#badforthebrand
- Ogilthorpe2

Right up there with trade Corey Crawford for Craig Anderson so we can save less than $2MM in cap space

Honestly, I think Vegas did as well as they did last season because there was zero expectations for that team, not only that but every player on that bench wanted to prove their former teams wrong for leaving them exposed - those two ideas combined really created the perfect environment for success... That and Vegas had a very favorable expansion draft do they got some decent players, a bunch of very good 3rd liners and a few legitimate 2nd liners, so when you have a team where your top 9 forwards are either really good 3rd liners or better you kinda have the edge against a lot of teams as far as median skill, and I don't think a lot of people realized that..... Either way, hockey fans - especially Vegas fans - now have expectations - high expectations and it's going to be difficult for Vegas to top last season.. So it will be interesting to see how Vegas deals with adversity because the team pretty much had none last season because there were zero expectations.

I do think Vegas is a playoff team, don't get me wrong but Vegas also has potential to have a meltdown too so they have vulnerably, so it will be interesting to see how they handle the pressure and expectations.
- Savard2Secord

MAF had a career year and a few guys produced well above the norm. Karlsson for sure.

When those 40 goals turn into 20 and MAF only stops 91% you'll see them closer to 8 then they are to 1.

Nope...that particular time it was Kane.
- HawkintheD

Kane was also in play for Ryan Miller at one time. Heard McDonough was meddling and nixed it.

Damn McDonough

Right up there with trade Corey Crawford for Craig Anderson so we can save less than $2MM in cap space
- Stan_Bowman

I would still trade Corey for Anderson straight up.

Honestly, I think Vegas did as well as they did last season because there was zero expectations for that team, not only that but every player on that bench wanted to prove their former teams wrong for leaving them exposed - those two ideas combined really created the perfect environment for success... That and Vegas had a very favorable expansion draft do they got some decent players, a bunch of very good 3rd liners and a few legitimate 2nd liners, so when you have a team where your top 9 forwards are either really good 3rd liners or better you kinda have the edge against a lot of teams as far as median skill, and I don't think a lot of people realized that..... Either way, hockey fans - especially Vegas fans - now have expectations - high expectations and it's going to be difficult for Vegas to top last season.. So it will be interesting to see how Vegas deals with adversity because the team pretty much had none last season because there were zero expectations.

I do think Vegas is a playoff team, don't get me wrong but Vegas also has potential to have a meltdown too so they have vulnerably, so it will be interesting to see how they handle the pressure and expectations.
- Savard2Secord

Agreed! Vegas caught the the world by storm and they rallied behind it tremendously to make a great story that will be hard to beat by any expansion team in the modern day of sports. That said, they were exposed in the cup finals. Now how they tore up SJ and Winnepeg is beyond me. Only Fleury would be a starting player and that could be debated. Schmidt has worked his way up to a top pairing and the top line of Smith, Marcesault (sp), and Karlson would be a great second line on most teams. Take nothing away, Vegas should be PROUD!

Hawks would still have a hole:

Saad-Toews-XXXX
DeBrincat-Schmaltz-Kane

or

Saad-Toews-DeBrincat
XXXX-Schmaltz-Kane

You have a hole either way...

Why not this:

Saad-Toews-DeBrincat
Anisimov-Schmaltz-Kane

Worth a shot, Anisimov has the body to play a left wing power forward role..

I would love to see Bowman move Anisimov + for Patches or Skinner because I think both would be a fit for this team - but not at their asking price (Schmaltz & first) which is insulting.
- Savard2Secord

What do you think we would have to include with AA to get Patches? Would AA, a d prospect (not Forsling or anyone from the last 2 drafts) and a 2nd work?

3 cups to zero in Hawks uniform
- onehundredlevel

Means nothing, Chelios was still a WAY better player than Seabrook.

What do you think we would have to include with AA to get Patches? Would AA, a d prospect (not Forsling or anyone from the last 2 drafts) and a 2nd work?
- tvetter

Not sure but Darth might have some suggestions.

Means nothing, Chelios was still a WAY better player than Seabrook.
- tyweb69

Also means nothing. Better player on a bunch of teams that won nothing (for the Hawks anyway). I'll take Seabs contributions on a Cup team over Chelios' Norris winning ways on a Cupless one.

3 cups to zero in Hawks uniform
- onehundredlevel

and one massive check on Backes - someone post that link.

and one massive check on Backes - someone post that link.
- stan-ley-cups

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmVrB2MnAE

Wakey Wakey

You don't tank now..... The Hawks have too much talent and too much money invested in this team..

The Hawks are 2 players away from contending.... What they need is a legitimate #2 left wing, and #4 defenseman, and you don't tank just because you have 2 holes.

I mean, I find it interesting that some Hawks fans (and it's always been this way) want to tank when they're not shoe-in's for the Cup.... This team has potential to be really good. Yea, the team fell flat last season, just about every veteran had a bad season, but it seems some Hawks fans believe these guys are incapable of rebounding. The Hawks played 20 rookies last season and as rookies they were going to make rookie mistakes, but these kids got a season of NHL experience under their belts and at their age that means a ton to their development - now they're not going to be so wet behind the ears which will take a little responsibility off the vets. Also, the loss of Hajamarsson, Hossa and Kruger hurt tremendously last season and it really showed and IMO, bringing Kruger back is huge - many fans cant see just how important he was playing in that bottom 6 role - I mean he's a shutdown defensive forward that is excellent at the dot... And that is another reason why the Hawks were terrible last season - they were terrible at the dot - winning draws is an extremely important aspect of the game, and when you lose 47% of your draws you're on the wrong side of the puck more often than not so Kruger is an improvement there...When you give up a face-off in the offensive zone you're losing a scoring opportunity, and when you lose a face-off in the defensive zone you're giving up a scoring opportunity, so performance at the dot matters Kruger is a massive improvement there. When Kruger wins a draw he can get the puck out of the zone, if he loses a draw he can grind out a turnover..... But this is just one aspect where the Hawks have improved, but it's an aspect that is profoundly overlooked...

I suppose my point is that this team is a lot better than what the fans are giving it credit for and have improved more than many may think..... The Hawks are only a couple of pieces away from seriously contending, and if one or 2 of these kids can step up and show they're ready to fill a bigger role that will be excellent... Jokiharju is NHL ready from an offense and skating perspective and I would say he's ready for the top 4, however he defense is suspect so I think he's going to need to get better there before he's the answer...But the Hawks already have the prospects they need to contend again - they're just not ready to jump into those roles.. The Hawks will need short-term solutions to fill those roles and Bowman is going to have to find them because you don't want to waste another year with Kane at 29, Toews at 30, Keith at 34 - I mean they're not exactly "old" but they're not exactly young so wasting another year just to take makes absolutely no sense at all....

To be honest, what this team is going to come down to is goaltending and defense, if Crow comes back and is back to normal Crow (and ward is consistent) goaltending will not be an issue, but Q is going to have to figure out the defense and that will be the most difficult part of getting this team back to contending... Sure in 2-3 years the Hawks will have one of the best defenses in the league, but that's 3 years not now....

But with all that said - taking is absolutely out of the question - especially closer to contending than they are taking - and make no mistake this would be an extremely expensive tank...
- Savard2Secord

I agree. Now that we can absorb his cap hit, I feel like he brings a lot to this team. I also think that he'll play well enough to get a contract extension, but at a lower hit in the 1.5 to 2 range.

Speaking of centers, what do you think about bringing in Nick Shore as a 4C/13th forward? He'll be 26 at the start of the season, and would be cheap enough to bury his entire salary in Rockford. He was s a little down last year, but for his career, he's over 50 percent at the dot. Admittedly, I don't know too much about him, so I'm legitimately asking.

Speaking of Kane, he's on the ice early this AM working on his skating(?) -

https://twitter.com/CRoum...tatus/1020306781468340224

https://twitter.com/CRoum...tatus/1020309864688635905

I'll 2nd, 3rd and 4th that.
- Mr Ricochet

Well when the Hawks were complete garbage and nobody showed up to games, no home games on TV, I probably watched just as many Red Wings games as Hawks games. Those Wings were just awesome to watch with the rosters they had. Sad but true...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmVrB2MnAE

Wakey Wakey
- Hossa1881

I love the 5-3, Hammer taking one yet again for the team, Odoua keeping the front of the crease clean, and Cro coming up big - Twice.

I miss that type of hockey.

I love the 5-3, Hammer taking one yet again for the team, Odoua keeping the front of the crease clean, and Cro coming up big - Twice.

I miss that type of hockey.
- riozzo

Me too.

I appreciate the reasonable response to a smartass suggestion, but in my opinion any player that has two defenders waiting for him to receive a pass is going to have a problem. That suggests to me there's an issue with the system. Like the other coach has it figured out and is ready for it. That's not a players thing, and that is a problem.
- 6628

I think you both have valid here. Remember back in the hay day. Hawks were an offensive machine controlling possession and dictating play, one of the reasons why they were always at the bottom of the league in hits. Also their defensive style based on that was holding their O blue line and and neutral zone and blowing up any counters or controlled break ups (Keith was probably the best in the NHL at that). So rarely at to puck retrieve with the backs away from the play and if so guys were skilled enough to D to D weak side and out with winger coming back. The stretch posed to concerns for the other team: dangerous outlet and the other to keep them honest so the opposing D could not jump and or in pinch in Hawks D zone thus breaking it up.

System or no system coaches and especially players on the ice can and should adapt to forechecking style in both structure and live play ie, stretch pass, blow the zone to create open ice for the center at the vacated boards, winger making an inside cut to get open, etc. Player support here is huge! It goes without saying that you need the players to have the necessary skating and skills to make these plays and also the confidence in himself and probably more importantly Coach Q.