It frustrates me to no end that people talk about Bailey, Baptiste, etc. earning their opportunities, but Girgensons sucked his way to the first line, and he almost always escapes criticism
- jcragcrumple

disagree

some of us have been looking at milk cartons for years trying to find that "all-star"

disagree

some of us have been looking at milk cartons for years trying to find that "all-star"
- homiedclown

Do you mean that he was over hyped? Sure, maybe. But he looked good. Where is the ZG from 14-15, that's what I'm asking. Look at the hustle and even the skill level he demonstrated. This isn't a lack of development, or a lack or ice time - for God's sake he played with Eichel for large swaths of this year and produced nothing.

What does he bring to the team? I'm serious.

He's always the last one to the opposing net after a whistle where he's adjusting his helmet and laughing with the opposing team.

Big hitter? No.
Scorer? No.
Expert PK? No.
PP? No.
Fighter? No.

What does he do?

Do you mean that he was over hyped? Sure, maybe. But he looked good. Where is the ZG from 14-15, that's what I'm asking. Look at the hustle and even the skill level he demonstrated. This isn't a lack of development, or a lack or ice time - for God's sake he played with Eichel for large swaths of this year and produced nothing.

What does he bring to the team? I'm serious.

He's always the last one to the opposing net after a whistle where he's adjusting his helmet and laughing with the opposing team.

Big hitter? No.
Scorer? No.
Expert PK? No.
PP? No.
Fighter? No.

What does he do?
- jcragcrumple

honestly when he was given a shot with decent line mates he seemed ok


on the bottom 6, it's like he is a ghost

Watch the way he scored his goals his first year. Hustle breakaways with surprising finish.

This has nothing to do with team skill, this is all on him forgetting, or not wanting to play the kind of hockey that made him intriguing
- jcragcrumple

Sure, I don’t necessarily disagree.

But he doesn’t get the benefit of being on a “bad team” that others do.

honestly when he was given a shot with decent line mates he seemed ok


on the bottom 6, it's like he is a ghost
- homiedclown

https://frozenpool.dobber...players/zemgus-girgensons

He played 44% of his time with either Eichel or ROR and managed 12 points there.

He sucked. He sucks with Eichel, but he sucks more without Eichel. I don't understand the excuses for ZG.

He played 10 seconds less per game than Sheary and scored 7 goals to Sheary's 18.

There is no mystique left with this guy. He is simply not good here. Maybe a trade would help him, but he's been given opportunities to succeed and sucked

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/zemgus-girgensons

He played 44% of his time with either Eichel or ROR and managed 12 points there.

He sucked. He sucks with Eichel, but he sucks more without Eichel. I don't understand the excuses for ZG.

He played 10 seconds less per game than Sheary and scored 7 goals to Sheary's 18.

There is no mystique left with this guy. He is simply not good here. Maybe a trade would help him, but he's been given opportunities to succeed and sucked
- jcragcrumple

Tough to argue with that.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/zemgus-girgensons

He played 44% of his time with either Eichel or ROR and managed 12 points there.

He sucked. He sucks with Eichel, but he sucks more without Eichel. I don't understand the excuses for ZG.

He played 10 seconds less per game than Sheary and scored 7 goals to Sheary's 18.

There is no mystique left with this guy. He is simply not good here. Maybe a trade would help him, but he's been given opportunities to succeed and sucked
- jcragcrumple

Agreed. Although I don’t think he’s as bad as you think (I don’t think he’s good)

But the sentence I bolded, why is it cut and dry for Girgensons, but not a Sam Reinhart or Ristolainen?

I don’t mean to single you out for this, it’s more of a general question

Sure, I don’t necessarily disagree.

But he doesn’t get the benefit of being on a “bad team” that others do.
- sbroads24

Why should he? He was on a bad team and was one of the worst players, despite getting plenty of playing time.

Rookie year: 1072 minutes played, 30 points.
This year: 973 minutes played, 15 points

A 10% reduction in minutes, and a 50% reduction in production

He has regressed

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/zemgus-girgensons

He played 44% of his time with either Eichel or ROR and managed 12 points there.

He sucked. He sucks with Eichel, but he sucks more without Eichel. I don't understand the excuses for ZG.

He played 10 seconds less per game than Sheary and scored 7 goals to Sheary's 18.

There is no mystique left with this guy. He is simply not good here. Maybe a trade would help him, but he's been given opportunities to succeed and sucked
- jcragcrumple

5v5 points per 60

Z .94
RoR 1.08
Pouliot 1.17
Pommer 1.41

Agreed. Although I don’t think he’s as bad as you think (I don’t think he’s good)

But the sentence I bolded, why is it cut and dry for Girgensons, but not a Sam Reinhart or Ristolainen?

I don’t mean to single you out for this, it’s more of a general question
- sbroads24

It's not a referendum on other players, it's a question of why people are making excuses for a player who underperforms and escapes criticism

5v5 points per 60

Z .94
RoR 1.08
Pouliot 1.17
Pommer 1.41
- Lunaion

If your point is that he's only slightly worse than Pouliot making $1m, it's a bad point

It's not a referendum on other players, it's a question of why people are making excuses for a player who underperforms and escapes criticism
- jcragcrumple

Because he plays 13 min a night and makes 900k.

He’s a blip on the radar.

He’s not why we were 31st

Anyone who sees his highlights from his freshman year to now can see the decline of ZG. He used to bull his way from center ice to the crease. I'm not even talking goal totals and ice time, his tenacity fell off the face of the Earth. If he fought or laid crushing hits, or created chances or pestered the opponent, there would be no qualms. At this point in ZG's tenure, there is really nothing he brings to the ice

https://youtu.be/hMVkLpSfcGg

There are several highlight-reel goals there
- jcragcrumple

Girgs was in my bar a month or so ago
Was drinking Corona
Nice guy

Agreed. Although I don’t think he’s as bad as you think (I don’t think he’s good)

But the sentence I bolded, why is it cut and dry for Girgensons, but not a Sam Reinhart or Ristolainen?

I don’t mean to single you out for this, it’s more of a general question
- sbroads24

reinhart and risto has showed stretches of games where they can fill a bucket full of points

as a team that struggles to score, they mean more to this team in the fall then that former all star

Because he plays 13 min a night and makes 900k.

He’s a blip on the radar.

He’s not why we were 31st
- sbroads24

Again, not a reason to keep him around

Do you mean that he was over hyped? Sure, maybe. But he looked good. Where is the ZG from 14-15, that's what I'm asking. Look at the hustle and even the skill level he demonstrated. This isn't a lack of development, or a lack or ice time - for God's sake he played with Eichel for large swaths of this year and produced nothing.

What does he bring to the team? I'm serious.

He's always the last one to the opposing net after a whistle where he's adjusting his helmet and laughing with the opposing team.

Big hitter? No.
Scorer? No.
Expert PK? No.
PP? No.
Fighter? No.

What does he do?
- jcragcrumple

His early years were with that "no system" coach, the same guy that had Ennis playing his best years.
Since then he has been with heavy system coaches and his play reflects the difference.
He might justbe a terrific pond hockey guy where individual hustle is amplified, and not a guy who plays well in systems that depend on everyone on the ice playing a coordinated game.
Does that relate to low H-IQ?
Maybe.

Girgs was in my bar a month or so ago
Was drinking Corona
Nice guy
- jdfitz77

even the Mexicans won't drink that crap

Again, not a reason to keep him around
- jcragcrumple

There’s 0 evidence any of the guys fighting for his job are better at this point. When they prove it, he won’t be here

even the Mexicans won't drink that crap
- homiedclown

Pacifico is far superior imo

Correct, because he got more of an opportunity.

And it’s not O’Reilly specific or specific to you. It’s the false narrative that you can’t properly evaluate players on bad teams
- sbroads24

U can...
But it’s also false to compare production of players on bad teams vs production of players on good teams

Armia is a perfect test case for your point
He has all the opportunity in the world now in Montreal
If he’s the good player you think,
then he will earn his “opportunity” for more icetime and take a leap up in production

reinhart and risto has showed stretches of games where they can fill a bucket full of points

as a team that struggles to score, they mean more to this team in the fall then that former all star
- homiedclown

Yeah, they are 5x as important.

My point is all 3 of them have been in the league 3-4 years and 240-400 games.

They all pretty much are what they are

even the Mexicans won't drink that crap
- homiedclown

I'm more of a Modello guy down here.

Pacifico is far superior imo
- jcragcrumple

I prefer Sol

It frustrates me to no end that people talk about Bailey, Baptiste, etc. earning their opportunities, but Girgensons sucked his way to the first line, and he almost always escapes criticism
- jcragcrumple

Huh?
Ppl diss Girgs all the time on here

I’m probably the nicest towards him...
and all I’ve said is that i think he could be a good 4th liner (if he’d accept that role)

U can...
But it’s also false to compare production of players on bad teams vs production of players on good teams

Armia is a perfect test case for your point
He has all the opportunity in the world now in Montreal
If he’s the good player you think,
then he will earn his “opportunity” for more icetime and take a leap up in production
- jdfitz77

By this logic, you can only compare players from teams that are similar in the standings?


This is why using basic point totals is a faulty way of judging a player