I’d prefer Pietro over Karlsson to be honest. Less offense (don’t need it) better defense (desperately needed). Matthews can probably work well with a couple bums like Brown/Hyman (e la Crosby). Kapanen could then join Kadri/Johnsson on the third line. Johnsson can move up when Marleau retires. Lots of winger prospects like Gundstrom on the way up.
- dwoo33

I'd prefer Doughty over both of them. Fact is, only one guy is available right now and he's going for less than he's worth because Ottawa has little to no leverage in the situation.

i am basing that on what the leafs need is as it stands

needs steadiness...not offense
- Dozzer

Again, outdated thinking. Karlsson controlling the game, having the puck and generating scoring chances is the steadiness that controls the game now. Having a Polak who plays "defensively" does nothing for the Leafs. Any guy the Leafs get that spends most of his time chasing the opponent doesn't get them further ahead.

All of it.

The Leafs do need an offensive defenseman to replace Gardiner. He's a UFA. They do need a top pairing RHD. They can afford him. He is worth it. He does improve the team.

There's a reason why defenders like Pesce don't get paid like Karlsson and it's because their "defensiveness" leaves them stuck in their own zone chasing the game, chasing the play and rarely controlling it. A player like Karlsson dominates a game from the blueline. He takes the puck and through his ability to dictate the flow of the game, doesn't have to spend the majority of it chasing his opponents.

This stupid notion that the Leafs need "defensive defensemen" is outdated and ineffective. Having a bunch of guys who just chase the opponent in their own zone isn't what works anymore.
- Unholy_Goalie

What makes you think Gardiner won't sign again? I'll bet he would be happy to.

Don't get me wrong - I like Karlsson. I just don't like what he would cost, I strongly disagree on the affordability aspect. What he would cost is the Leaf's future.

Don’t need Karlsson with the forward the Leafs have.
- Steven_Seagull

Yeah, sure. Took the Capitals 13 years to try and score their way to the Cup.

More forwards, less Norris winners. Good plan.

Don’t need Karlsson with the forward the Leafs have.
- Steven_Seagull

It's not so much just about projected pts...

Having a guy who can run the plays from the defensive zone would help this team tremendously. It fits within their style of play. You see Dermott try to skate the puck a lot because thats what they're telling him to do. Id rather see Karlsson do that.

i am basing that on what the leafs need is as it stands

needs steadiness...not offense
- Dozzer

So why not Hamhuis on the cheap? Better than Polak by a mile,anyway. Are there Leafs fans that don’t think he is good enough for that back end for 2-3 years?

Yeah, sure. Took the Capitals 13 years to try and score their way to the Cup.

More forwards, less Norris winners. Good plan.
- Unholy_Goalie

Worked for the 2017 Penguins too. Don’t need Karlsson with the forward group the Leafs have.

What makes you think Gardiner won't sign again? I'll bet he would be happy to.

Don't get me wrong - I like Karlsson. I just don't like what he would cost, I strongly disagree on the affordability aspect. What he would cost is the Leaf's future.
- TrashPanda

Gardiner won't be cheap either. He's in JVR mode. Lose for nothing or overpay to stay.

That same money is better spent on Karlsson. At least you know you're getting the highest quality defensemen.

He absolutely would not cost the Leafs their future. Not at all. Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Rielly would all still be on the team. Karlsson costs you Nylander and possibly some depth players if the core guys get greedy and want every last penny they can squeeze out of the Leafs. Depth players are easily replaced, Karlsson type players rarely come alone. Always take the high quality player and replace the dime a dozen players with cheap UFAs or ELCs.

It's not so much just about projected pts...

Having a guy who can run the plays from the defensive zone would help this team tremendously. It fits within their style of play. You see Dermott try to skate the puck a lot because thats what they're telling him to do. Id rather see Karlsson do that.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott can do it. Don’t need Karlsson.

Worked for the 2017 Penguins too. Don’t need Karlsson with the forward group the Leafs have.
- Steven_Seagull

they dont need him, you're right..

But he makes sense.. He fits.

I'd prefer Doughty over both of them. Fact is, only one guy is available right now and he's going for less than he's worth because Ottawa has little to no leverage in the situation.
- Unholy_Goalie

I wonder if a guy like Trouba is available. Can’t see Karlsson happening. I understand your arguments but just don’t see it.

Worked for the 2017 Penguins too. Don’t need Karlsson with the forward group the Leafs have.
- Steven_Seagull

Gonchar, Letang.

Also, nobody the Leafs have are as good as Crosby or Malkin so they kind of make up the difference. The Leafs can have a superior blueline though.

Niedermayer and Pronger in Anaheim, Keith in Chicago three times, Doughty in LA twice, Carlson in Washington don't make me list them all because it'll only prove you more and more wrong. Every Norris winner in the last 30 years has won a Cup or gone to the Finals, every multiple time winner has won a Cup. Karlsson is going to bring the Leafs closer to contending than Gardiner or Nylander.

Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott can do it. Don’t need Karlsson.
- Steven_Seagull

Don't need Gardiner and his cluster(frank) meltdowns either..

Dermott might be great, but wont be Karlsson.

Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott can do it. Don’t need Karlsson.
- Steven_Seagull

No they can't. None of them are anywhere near as good as Karlsson. Dermott hasn't even (frank)ing played a full NHL season yet. Gardiner is a pending UFA. Rielly is the only one who has even a small chance and if you compare them at the same age, Karlsson blows him out of the water.

I wonder if a guy like Trouba is available. Can’t see Karlsson happening. I understand your arguments but just don’t see it.
- dwoo33

Karlsson has one foot out the door, Winnipeg has little to no interest in moving Trouba. Not to mention, simply put, Trouba isn't as good as Karlsson. We're talking about two different tiers of defensemen here.

Again, outdated thinking. Karlsson controlling the game, having the puck and generating scoring chances is the steadiness that controls the game now. Having a Polak who plays "defensively" does nothing for the Leafs. Any guy the Leafs get that spends most of his time chasing the opponent doesn't get them further ahead.
- Unholy_Goalie

here's the thing... why would the sens make this move? they're looking to tank... and nylander and gardiner together will outscore karlsson on his own.. ultimately to get a late first rounder?

they dont need him, you're right..

But he makes sense.. He fits.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Leafs are already an offensive powerhouse especially with the addition of Tavares. All they need is someone better than Hainsey to play with Rielly. Don’t need Karlsson.

Orr/Tavares/Marner

Orr scores 40 goals.

No they can't. None of them are anywhere near as good as Karlsson. Dermott hasn't even (frank)ing played a full NHL season yet. Gardiner is a pending UFA. Rielly is the only one who has even a small chance and if you compare them at the same age, Karlsson blows him out of the water.
- Unholy_Goalie

Irrelevant. They don’t have to be as good as Karlsson. Defense by committee. Don’t need Karlsson.

here's the thing... why would the sens make this move? they're looking to tank... and nylander and gardiner together will outscore karlsson on his own.. ultimately to get a late first rounder?
- Dozzer

No Dozzer, they are not looking to tank. They do not own their 1st round pick in 2019. The absolutely last thing they want to do is tank. If they tank, Colorado can draft 1st overall.

So why not Hamhuis on the cheap? Better than Polak by a mile,anyway. Are there Leafs fans that don’t think he is good enough for that back end for 2-3 years?
- HonkyTonkMan

Could be an option if he’s willing to take a 1- year. Same with 4C’s such as N.Shore or M.Letestu. Rolling with Lindholm/Gauthier could be a risking proposition me thinks.

No they can't. None of them are anywhere near as good as Karlsson. Dermott hasn't even (frank)ing played a full NHL season yet. Gardiner is a pending UFA. Rielly is the only one who has even a small chance and if you compare them at the same age, Karlsson blows him out of the water.
- Unholy_Goalie

They don't need to be as good as Karlsson, they just need to be competent.

How do you know that Dermott doesn't develop into something decent? You don't.

Stop trying to gut the team and let them play. They're going to be good - very good. We're in for an exciting season of hockey!

No Dozzer, they are not looking to tank. They do not own their 1st round pick in 2019. The absolutely last thing they want to do is tank. If they tank, Colorado can draft 1st overall.
- Unholy_Goalie

then hold him til the sens can tell at the deadline who's the most likely to finish lower in the standings... and a team needing him will also pay more

Karlsson has one foot out the door, Winnipeg has little to no interest in moving Trouba. Not to mention, simply put, Trouba isn't as good as Karlsson. We're talking about two different tiers of defensemen here.
- Unholy_Goalie

Karlsson
Doughty

Hedman
Josi

Burns
Pietro
Carlson
Subban
OEL
Byfuglien
McAvoy
Rielly


im probably missing a few

Irrelevant. They don’t have to be as good as Karlsson. Defense by committee. Don’t need Karlsson.
- Steven_Seagull

What committee? (frank)ing 90 year old Hainsey? poop bag Zaitsev? Carrick? (frank)ing Gardiner who's a pending UFA and half the fans want him out of town because he poop himself in game 7?

It's a poopty committee. Get the Norris winning RHD.

Imagine the opposite situation right now with 6 legit defenders and no centers and trying to play center and score goals by committee. (frank)ing ludicrous. The Leafs have too much up front and not enough on defense. Trade the expendable forward and acquire the needed RHD.