2-out of-3 on 1st rounders and 2-out of -3 on 7th rounders
- jcragcrumple

don't forget guhle and Asplund in the second round...

am interested to see how third-rounders pu and fitzgerald work out as well as fourth rounders Borgen and murray

I couldn't disagree with you more

Wake up, to be this sure about something

"I'm certain they tried to win"

There will be only 6-8 of the 22 players from last seasons opening roster on this years team

2017-2018 the tank team that fooled taco
- Boss34

They weren't tanking. Just because Botts didn't make any GMTM deals to speed up the rebuild, doesn't mean we tanked. As a matter of fact, if we were tanking guys like Pouliot, Antipin and Josefson wouldn't have been brought in. Same with Beau. It isn't that those players were great or thought to be, but if you're tanking you want to lose...you sign worse players than that or promote from within. Pouliot is no Xenon Konopka.

don't forget guhle and Asplund in the second round...

am interested to see how third-rounders pu and fitzgerald work out as well as fourth rounders Borgen and murray
- Michael Pachla

I'd rehire TM as a scout in a heartbeat.

The first draft had some big misses, but generally he drafted well and got us some quality talent out of later rounds.

I'd rehire TM as a scout in a heartbeat.

The first draft had some big misses, but generally he drafted well and got us some quality talent out of later rounds.
- RhinoFan

the nylander factor

I couldn't disagree with you more

Wake up, to be this sure about something

"I'm certain they tried to win"

There will be only 6-8 of the 22 players from last seasons opening roster on this years team

2017-2018 the tank team that fooled taco
- Boss34

Eichel
Okposo
Pominville
Girgensons
Larsson
Scandella
Reinhart
Ristolainen
Bogosian
Beaulieu
McCabe

Early season adds: Rodrigues, Wilson

So about half the team is existing from last year, bit more than half. So that's BS.

Now onto the actual point. I'm going to copy and paste my earlier response to this exact topic:

all those players come with context.

Bowls- 3rd round pick for an NHL ready defender. Solid gamble IMO, especially because he was a well known commodity at that point

Kane- No one knows for sure, so if you go by the words of the GM, it was "the only deal". Just like recent train wreck Pierre Dorian and his bending over of Hoffman.

Wilson- A 5th for an NHL player that can bring cup experience and leadership and can jump around the bottom 3 lines? Sign me up. He's cheap and can play. I don't see anything wrong with him.

Chad Johnson- Played very well in CGY the year prior. Had a meltdown, only signed to one year. NBD. We sucked anyway.

LD- Yeah, we need more RDs. But who'd we bring in? Pilut, a premium UDFA and Hickey, destined for Roch. Yep, we need more RDs for certain.

Leaf Trade- I won't even bother here. Insignificant, yet odd asset management. 6th round picks hardly ever turn into anything. So we get 2 in 2019 and 0 in 2018. Year to year difference is nil. Then again, I love watching Pennywise go (frank)ing bananas.

Griffith/Tennyson- Griffith earned it out of camp. It's less of an indictment on Housley (not Botts) than it is on the atrocious depth of the team, at that point. Our wing depth was even more pathetic last year than it is this year. At least this year, we have a few guys that can actually push for NHL minutes.

I'm not getting on my knees for Botts, but I don't think he's really done a bad job up to this point. I haven't seen any egregious asset management. In fact, you're starting to see a plan being put into place here. Freeing up long term cap space, while setting a foundation for the roster and allowing the prospects grow until they're actually ready for the NHL. I like what he's done and I don't really have any reason to dislike anything so far.

if the goal was to roll the dice for Dahlin, he gets an A+

if he wanted to see if he could ice a fringe playoff team, he gets a C-



we will never know what he was trying to do, my guess is dahlin
- homiedclown

If trading Ennis and foligno for Scandella and Pommer and signing Poliout was supposed to scream playoff push then our fan base is dilliusional beyond belief. Last year was an obvious “see what we have” year. Botts wanted to see if the current “core” would sink or swim. It definitely sunk. He’s putting his imprint on the team this season with the additions of Hutton, Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin. Brought in guys like Ogleive, Pilut, Hickey.

They weren't tanking. Just because Botts didn't make any GMTM deals to speed up the rebuild, doesn't mean we tanked. As a matter of fact, if we were tanking guys like Pouliot, Antipin and Josefson wouldn't have been brought in. Same with Beau. It isn't that those players were great or thought to be, but if you're tanking you want to lose...you sign worse players than that or promote from within. Pouliot is no Xenon Konopka.
- RhinoFan

Christ, thank you. People think that if you're not trading garbage for gold and signing premium players left and right to huge deals every summer, you're (frank)ing tanking. I can't handle this poop.

the nylander factor
- homiedclown

The Karabachek factor I could have accepted.

Junior is right for once. Alex Nylander will be a good NHL player, soon.

If trading Ennis and foligno for Scandella and Pommer and signing Poliout was supposed to scream playoff push then our fan base is dilliusional beyond belief. Last year was an obvious “see what we have” year. Botts had his eyes on a top 5 pick all along.
- Pegullaville

No one is arguing that we were making moves to contend. Simply that Botts wasn't tanking AND that he was trying to make the team subtly better with what he had. You're right it was a see what we have year, but tanking is well beyond that.

Were we better with Ennis/Foligno or Scandella/Pommer, statistics would say we improved there. Beau is still above a replacement player, same there. Scott Wilson was brought in instead of rushing a kid up that would have struggled in a top6 role.

Everything he has done has been low risk. Even Sheary is the same as that he won't make us a playoff team, but is a stab at improvement. This was not a tanking team since Botts took over, we simply ended up last. We knew we wouldn't be good, but weren't shooting to bottom out by any means. If we had, RoR, Okposo, Risto or others would have been getting shipped out this time last summer.

Christ, thank you. People think that if you're not trading garbage for gold and signing premium players left and right to huge deals every summer, you're (frank)ing tanking. I can't handle this poop.
- TheSabresTaco

I snort Zoloft, it helps.

If trading Ennis and foligno for Scandella and Pommer and signing Poliout was supposed to scream playoff push then our fan base is dilliusional beyond belief. Last year was an obvious “see what we have” year. Botts wanted to see if the current “core” would sink or swim. It definitely sunk. He’s putting his imprint on the team this season with the additions of Hutton, Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin. Brought in guys like Ogleive, Pilut, Hickey.
- Pegullaville

I can definitely get on board with this. For sure. You're not making the Scandella trade and bringing in NHL talent.. or "talent" in Pouliot and Bowls.. if you're PURPOSELY TRYING TO LOSE.

My caps key got stuck on auto.

We have the two best prospects in the entire NHL and people are complaining about our GM.... 3 years from now you guys will be begging to build the guy a statue.

I snort Zoloft, it helps.
- RhinoFan

(frank)ing give me some.

They weren't tanking. Just because Botts didn't make any GMTM deals to speed up the rebuild, doesn't mean we tanked. As a matter of fact, if we were tanking guys like Pouliot, Antipin and Josefson wouldn't have been brought in. Same with Beau. It isn't that those players were great or thought to be, but if you're tanking you want to lose...you sign worse players than that or promote from within. Pouliot is no Xenon Konopka.
- RhinoFan

Good guys like
Pouliot
Antipin
Josephson
Beau

Non of those guys are good nhl players

Tennyson
Griffith
Moulson for 17 games

How many worse players could we possibly ice?

Lehner
Chad

Guys like Wilson, Pouliot, and Beaulieu were brought in so our young players could develop properly. Guhle and Smith benefited greatly from this. Nylander got more pro experience.

Good guys like :
- Boss34

Pouliot - Who else was going to fill this spot?
Antipin - UDFA that Murray found. So what?
Josephson - 4th line center for 1 year cheap? Ok?
Beau - 3rd round pick to replace (frank)ing Gorges. Yes.

Non of those guys are good nhl players

Tennyson - Depth player. Who else is going to play? Kids that aren't ready? Cool.
Griffith - See above.
Moulson for 17 games - Scott Wilson>Matt Moulson. That's literal proof of trying to improve.

How many worse players could we possibly ice?

Lehner - Inherited.
Chad - had a good year previous. 1 year deal. For a (frank)ing backup

Come on, guy. Come on.

2-out of-3 on 1st rounders and 2-out of -3 on 7th rounders
- jcragcrumple

0/10 on trades and free agent signings that will affect our cap for the next few years at least. But at least we lucked into Dahlin. Give credit to a Botts to not trying to do his own quick fix last offseason and spend foolish money.

Eichel
Okposo
Pominville
Girgensons
Larsson
Scandella
Reinhart
Ristolainen
Bogosian
Beaulieu
McCabe

Early season adds: Rodrigues, Wilson

So about half the team is existing from last year, bit more than half. So that's BS.

Now onto the actual point. I'm going to copy and paste my earlier response to this exact topic:

all those players come with context.

Bowls- 3rd round pick for an NHL ready defender. Solid gamble IMO, especially because he was a well known commodity at that point

Kane- No one knows for sure, so if you go by the words of the GM, it was "the only deal". Just like recent train wreck Pierre Dorian and his bending over of Hoffman.

Wilson- A 5th for an NHL player that can bring cup experience and leadership and can jump around the bottom 3 lines? Sign me up. He's cheap and can play. I don't see anything wrong with him.

Chad Johnson- Played very well in CGY the year prior. Had a meltdown, only signed to one year. NBD. We sucked anyway.

LD- Yeah, we need more RDs. But who'd we bring in? Pilut, a premium UDFA and Hickey, destined for Roch. Yep, we need more RDs for certain.

Leaf Trade- I won't even bother here. Insignificant, yet odd asset management. 6th round picks hardly ever turn into anything. So we get 2 in 2019 and 0 in 2018. Year to year difference is nil. Then again, I love watching Pennywise go (frank)ing bananas.

Griffith/Tennyson- Griffith earned it out of camp. It's less of an indictment on Housley (not Botts) than it is on the atrocious depth of the team, at that point. Our wing depth was even more pathetic last year than it is this year. At least this year, we have a few guys that can actually push for NHL minutes.

I'm not getting on my knees for Botts, but I don't think he's really done a bad job up to this point. I haven't seen any egregious asset management. In fact, you're starting to see a plan being put into place here. Freeing up long term cap space, while setting a foundation for the roster and allowing the prospects grow until they're actually ready for the NHL. I like what he's done and I don't really have any reason to dislike anything so far.
- TheSabresTaco

So out of your 11 guys 3 will not be on the opening day roster

Bowl u
Larson
Girgs
McCabe
Bogo

Who knows, its July and jbotts switched out 10-12 guys already from the beginning of last season

Bowl u a gamble- how do you know botts didnt pick him up to play exactly how he played last year?- terrible

Kane- agreed who knows what was offered when?

Wilson- good add, wasn't gone put the train back on the tracks single handedly

Chad- didnt play that well in calgary the year before, they would have resigned their home town kid.

Tennyson/ Griffin- life time ahl guys. What was your point on this one? Clearly not nhl talent. Losers

Good guys like
Pouliot
Antipin
Josephson
Beau

Non of those guys are good nhl players

Tennyson
Griffith
Moulson for 17 games

How many worse players could we possibly ice?

Lehner
Chad
- Boss34

Who would you rather have if you were trying to win games:

Pouliot
Beau
Josefson
Antipin

OR

D'Agostini
Konopka
Meszaros
Benoit

Choose wisely. One is a group of tanking players, one is not. See the stark difference? The first four aren't good NHL players, but they are NHL players...the other four weren't NHL players by the time they got here.

0/10 on trades and free agent signings that will affect our cap for the next few years at least. But at least we lucked into Dahlin. Give credit to a Botts to not trying to do his own quick fix last offseason and spend foolish money.
- Pegullaville

It's clear he's focusing on the long term with all the high picks and promising prospects, while subtly improving the short term/active roster. At least this time, we have a few more high end young players to start our 2nd rebuild with.

I can definitely get on board with this. For sure. You're not making the Scandella trade and bringing in NHL talent.. or "talent" in Pouliot and Bowls.. if you're PURPOSELY TRYING TO LOSE.

My caps key got stuck on auto.
- TheSabresTaco

Yeah

Pouliot was bought out. Clearly not playing well
Bowl u- was a terrible player for the habs.

You keep proving my point

So out of your 11 guys 3 will not be on the opening day roster

Bowl u
Larson
Girgs
McCabe
Bogo

Who knows, its July and jbotts switched out 10-12 guys already from the beginning of last season

Bowl u a gamble- how do you know botts didnt pick him up to play exactly how he played last year?- terrible

Kane- agreed who knows what was offered when?

Wilson- good add, wasn't gone put the train back on the tracks single handedly

Chad- didnt play that well in calgary the year before, they would have resigned their home town kid.

Tennyson/ Griffin- life time ahl guys. What was your point on this one? Clearly not nhl talent. Losers
- Boss34

So wait, you're suggesting Botts knew he would suck and traded away a draft pick (when we were tanking) so that he could suck for us here? Sorry you can get sucky players for free...

2-out of-3 on 1st rounders and 2-out of -3 on 7th rounders
- jcragcrumple

2 out 3 how hard was it to pick jack ?

Yeah

Pouliot was bought out. Clearly not playing well
Bowl u- was a terrible player for the habs.

You keep proving my point
- Boss34

And you aren't answering the questions asked:

Why would he trade for a player to make him worse?

Why would he sign a player that would undoubtedly score more than the in-system replacement?

Who would you rather have if you were trying to win games:

Pouliot
Beau
Josefson
Antipin

OR

D'Agostini
Konopka
Meszaros
Benoit

Choose wisely. One is a group of tanking players, one is not. See the stark difference? The first four aren't good NHL players, but they are NHL players...the other four weren't NHL players by the time they got here.
- RhinoFan

They cant both be tanking players?

Your a joke