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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Hossa Reaction and What's Next?
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tvetter
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burkesville, KY
Joined: 12.16.2015

Jul 13 @ 10:19 AM ET
Yeah I agree that Callahan is trash at this point. I said he is a fringe player making 5.8M. I don't expect the Hawks to look at him and I don't want them to.

But Anton Stralman is an expiring contract and would provide the Hawks with an excellent top 4 upgrade, as Justin mentions.

- Hawks_49


If the Hawks were in a position to actually make a run for the Cup, I'd take Stralman in a heartbeat; however, we're not. The problem is Stralman will actually cost us something, and we may not be able to keep him after next year. Callahan would cost TB A LOT. Unfortunately, he has a NTC/NMC according to capfriendly, so I'm guessing we couldn't bury him in Rockford.

weakglovehand
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: under-q's-stash, IL
Joined: 02.27.2007

Jul 13 @ 10:21 AM ET
AZ gets about 15M in cap over 3 years paid for by insurance money, a similar deal for Pronger and Bolland. These deals are coming to an end thankfully and will be addressed in the next CBA. The NHL should have allowed a partial amnesty for these deals as they went after the fact on the recapture penalty.

Glad to see Krueger back, now the Hawks have 1C,3C,and 4C. Anisimov stays to be the defacto 2C and his 45% FO can be tolerated with the rest over 50%. Schmaltz moves to the wing for atleast 1 more year.

Now if #19 and #20 show up the Hawks MIGHT make the playoffs as a #7 or #8 seed.
STL might be the team to beat barring injuries. Winnipeg can go either way. 6.7M for Hellybuck? NOBODY should complain about Crow's deal, EVER!
tvetter
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burkesville, KY
Joined: 12.16.2015

Jul 13 @ 10:21 AM ET
Agreed on the first part. A lot of things need to fall into place/happen for this team to be a contender again, which is fine. That's the way sports go.

Not sure I agree with the second part. I don't think Ryan Callahan is as valuable as you think he is. He has always been an overrated player. Look at his stats for the past three years, I think it would take a team a couple prospects in order to off load Callahan's contract, and get nothing in return.

- Hossa1881


That was exactly my point. We take Callahan's contract AND get two very good prospects.
Takemedrunkimhome
Montreal Canadiens
Joined: 03.08.2018

Jul 13 @ 10:22 AM ET
Curiously...if it was Patches the Hawks are after as I've read from a few places including JJ:

What do Hawks fans think would make sense as a package?

I doubt Schmaltz ends up in MTL although I'd have said the same about Danault for the deadline scraps a few years ago so who knows. I've heard Jokiharju and a pick but again don't know. Would love a level headed Hawks based opinion - because as fans we are all level headed
Hawks_49
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 04.28.2015

Jul 13 @ 10:25 AM ET
If the Hawks were in a position to actually make a run for the Cup, I'd take Stralman in a heartbeat; however, we're not. The problem is Stralman will actually cost us something, and we may not be able to keep him after next year. Callahan would cost TB A LOT. Unfortunately, he has a NTC/NMC according to capfriendly, so I'm guessing we couldn't bury him in Rockford.
- tvetter


The Hawks had an awful lot of things go wrong for them last season. A perfect storm of negative things. I don't think this team has fallen as far as most believe, but I understand I'm in the minority. Shoring up the back end would go a long way to getting back into contention.
frafra
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 10.21.2011

Jul 13 @ 10:30 AM ET
Love this move. Comparing what it cost the Hawks to move Bickell, I think this is a HUGE win for SB. IF Kruger comes back healthy, which it sounds like he has been battling some serious injuries for the last few seasons, I don't mind his return at all. Hawks get a 4C, a great penalty killer, and a guy who is over 50%. Really curious to see what the Hawks do with this extra cap space now. If the Hawks deal with Tampa Bay and take back Callahan, they better be getting some solid young pieces in return. Even with his deal only being two more years, they have to land can't miss pieces to deal with that contract. Also, if Pacioretty is an option, I pray that the Hawks do not trade any of their most recently drafted defenseman.
tgentry1084
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Joined: 12.28.2012

Jul 13 @ 10:33 AM ET
Ok so the Hawks weren't aware of the soon to be recapture penalties - my mistake. How many years passed by after signing? The Hawks knew of the 'new' recapture penalties so ride the pony while it's hot & dump it when it's not. I don't blame them, but it still doesn't make it right.
- Aussiepenguin


To confirm, if Sidney Crosby went down with one concussion too many in 2022, when his cap hit remains $8.7m/year, but his actual salary is only $3m/year for the next three seasons, you would be opposed to the Penguins trading him to a floor team in order to gain cap relief. Your opinion would be that this is the bed that the team has made and now they have to lay in it. Is that correct?

For reference, I am not saying that I agree with these types of moves, and I understand the frustration another team might have.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jul 13 @ 10:33 AM ET
Coburn is absolutely not a top-4 d-man. He’s a 33-year-old pylon who is a bottom pairing d-man.

A top-four of Hedman, EK, McD, and Stralman is the best top-four in the game, and it’s not particularly close either.

TB has come close for years now and Stevie may not ever have a better opportunity than he does now. He could easily swing for the fences one more time before encroaching cap hell. If he has to overpay to get rid of Callahan, I think he will.

- TommyHawk


And he'll have to and pay huuuuuge to get rid of that horrid contract he gave Callahan which has 2 yrs left at a 5.8 hit per. Probably at least 2 of his top 5 prospects. And then would have to pay dearly to get Karlsson. Seems to me OTT and TB don't need a 3rd team. Callahan and 2-3 of his top prospects plus a 1st or more for Karlsson.

Stevie Y has been very patient as a GM with the Drouin situation being exhibit A but you make a great point he might feel this is his last best chance for the cup with Karlsson being available. He won't be in cap hell like the Hawks cuz he's been shrewd signing his stars but the caveat is Karlsson won't be available next yr and he could be the difference between TB winning the cup and not.

Very interesting to see how the patient and measured Stevie Y proceeds under these circumstances.
EbonyRaptor
Joined: 03.28.2013

Jul 13 @ 10:34 AM ET
Why in the world would the Hawks (or anyone) acquire Ryan Callahan - a 33-year old 3rd line winger making $5.8M for 2 more years who scored all of 18 points in 67 games last season. Puh-leeze.

Schmaltz (and DeBrincat) should be untouchables unless the trade is too good to be true (meaning equal or better player with long term contract or RFA). No way those two should be traded for a Pacioretty or Skinner. Sikura - fine because he hasn't proven himself yet, but I wouldn't even trade Sikura for a player with only 1 or 2 years on their contract before they hit UFA.

The point is - do we really think the Hawks are a legitimate Cup contender if they add a Stralman and Skinner/Pacioretty? I don't. Maybe they eek into the playoffs if a lot of things go right but they are not one of the best teams anymore. They should be aiming for 2019/20 season, if not the 2020/21 season.
tgentry1084
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Joined: 12.28.2012

Jul 13 @ 10:43 AM ET
And he'll have to and pay huuuuuge to get rid of that horrid contract he gave Callahan which has 2 yrs left at a 5.8 hit per. Probably at least 2 of his top 5 prospects. And then would have to pay dearly to get Karlsson. Seems to me OTT and TB don't need a 3rd team. Callahan and 2-3 of his top prospects plus a 1st or more for Karlsson.

Stevie Y has been very patient as a GM with the Drouin situation being exhibit A but you make a great point he might feel this is his last best chance for the cup with Karlsson being available. He won't be in cap hell like the Hawks cuz he's been shrewd signing his stars but the caveat is Karlsson won't be available next yr and he could be the difference between TB winning the cup and not.

Very interesting to see how the patient and measured Stevie Y proceeds under these circumstances.

- Mr Ricochet


Except for Callahan...
tyweb69
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.02.2012

Jul 13 @ 10:51 AM ET
All teams know & are bound by the cap recapture penalties & are aware of them at time of signing.

These ghost trades are cap circumvention in my opinion & benifit 1 team greatly & a 2nd team mildly. The teams doing them usually want their cake & eat it - & usually get it through these trades. You sign the player you take whatever that player gives you good & bad.

I can't wait to see Nashville trade for Weber back after he basically retires early, only to trade him to the Yotes for cap relief. I hope they get screwed twice.

- Aussiepenguin


Um no, the cap recapture penalty came AFTER they made these types of deal illegal.
333inthe3rd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 02.04.2015

Jul 13 @ 10:52 AM ET
Stralman is turning 32 next month. When does the inevitable decline start? Seems like an overpay in the making if the Hawks trade for him and extend him. A couple of good years, granted, but then what happens?

These names, though. Skinner and Pacioretty? Why?

And if they're going to trade Schmaltz and a 1st, at least trade for younger established players.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jul 13 @ 10:53 AM ET
Fantastic piece, Jason. Like how you added the thoughts/rumors of bloggers/writers that follow the Hawks. For sure a lot of options as you point out. Ones that are known and unknown.

Either way it feels good to be a Hawks fan this morning. By no means are they set for the next 10 yrs but with the pipeline getting more and more filled, cap space for the first time in 10 yrs and seemingly the front office has shown clear eyed thinking this offseason......... Feels like a new era has started but we'll know more of the organIzational "plan" it this yrs TDL.

Wanna add what I posted at the tail end of your last blog.


No doubt they still are weak at center, no idea of Crow's health, after Keith no sure 1st or 2nd rotation Dman in the system (without 1 or 2 ascending to that role this yr), still only have a legit top 4 at forward and that's counting Toews and not AA.

There are still numerous holes. Too many to logically fix to make a deep run if even A run. But assuming Kruger is healthy they are better on the ice today than yesterday. Kid at 28 on a 1 yr deal can win a draw, suppress shots and take some leg burning PK minutes and defensive draws from Toews.

I hope the Hawks realize they are still in the unspoken rebuild and realistically won't "contend" for 2-3 yrs. Keep adding young pieces and absolutely no vets with term or using young assets/draft picks to acquire any vets. Nash for 1 yr, fine. No to Pacioretty cuz he will cost assets unless AA is in the deal and they are thinking long view by moving Pacioretty at the TDL for a load (but you're fooling with the bull cuz he could get hurt).

For me Stan and the organIzation has been clear eyed this offseason. Nobody added with term in FA and he showed patience moving the Hossa money which there was no rush to do, really.

I'm hoping this approach continues.
ObeseOprah
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.17.2014

Jul 13 @ 10:53 AM ET
Pittsburgh guy, I'd like to welcome another completely inaccurate poster to the boards. Coming in hot right away with made up crap.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jul 13 @ 10:53 AM ET
Curiously...if it was Patches the Hawks are after as I've read from a few places including JJ:

What do Hawks fans think would make sense as a package?

I doubt Schmaltz ends up in MTL although I'd have said the same about Danault for the deadline scraps a few years ago so who knows. I've heard Jokiharju and a pick but again don't know. Would love a level headed Hawks based opinion - because as fans we are all level headed

- Takemedrunkimhome

Well Max is looking for about $7M x 8 from whoever the acquiring team is and Bergevin has let it slip that they don't intend to offer him an extension. So what position are the Habs in to demand a big return? I'd say not very good.

I doubt the Hawks would sign on for big money long term for Max. Straight up they might offer up Anisimov plus one of their 17 signed defenceman. Otherwise I think it would have to be a multi player deal.

Tanuki
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.27.2010

Jul 13 @ 10:59 AM ET
AZ gets about 15M in cap over 3 years paid for by insurance money, a similar deal for Pronger and Bolland. These deals are coming to an end thankfully and will be addressed in the next CBA.
- weakglovehand


The majority of the recapture issues have been resolved moving forward. Recapture penalties can still occur, but not to the extent of a Hossa, Suter, Weber, Parise, etc...

However, with NHL contracts, they are guaranteed money. So, in Bolland's case, Florida could have bought him out (which would have cost them ~2/3's of the remaining total, or sell if off to a bottom feeder who needs to get to the cap floor or a team that is willing to take the contract if a sweetner is added - Johns in the Sharp trade, Hinostrosa in the Hossa case, etc.. Granted, Sharp did have some value when he was traded to Dallas.

The Pronger contract was more problematic. It was an "over 35" contract, so there was no real buyout option here. It was purely "dead money".
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Jul 13 @ 10:59 AM ET
Why in the world would the Hawks (or anyone) acquire Ryan Callahan - a 33-year old 3rd line winger making $5.8M for 2 more years who scored all of 18 points in 67 games last season. Puh-leeze.

Schmaltz (and DeBrincat) should be untouchables unless the trade is too good to be true (meaning equal or better player with long term contract or RFA). No way those two should be traded for a Pacioretty or Skinner. Sikura - fine because he hasn't proven himself yet, but I wouldn't even trade Sikura for a player with only 1 or 2 years on their contract before they hit UFA.

The point is - do we really think the Hawks are a legitimate Cup contender if they add a Stralman and Skinner/Pacioretty? I don't. Maybe they eek into the playoffs if a lot of things go right but they are not one of the best teams anymore. They should be aiming for 2019/20 season, if not the 2020/21 season.

- EbonyRaptor


I too am hoping that Bowman is looking at a 2 year plan utilizing this new found cap space. Signing more UFA's to one year deals like Nash leaves us nice flexibility in 2019-20. However trading for and extending someone like Paciorety puts us back to where we have been in the last 2 years while costing us cap space and picks /prospects. A quick fix will not make us contenders today and hurt our chances of becoming contenders in the future.
mrpaulish
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Itasca, IL
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jul 13 @ 11:02 AM ET
Pittsburgh guy, I'd like to welcome another completely inaccurate poster to the boards. Coming in hot right away with made up crap.
- ObeseOprah






SoftServe
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 01.19.2016

Jul 13 @ 11:03 AM ET
Stralman is turning 32 next month. When does the inevitable decline start? Seems like an overpay in the making if the Hawks trade for him and extend him. A couple of good years, granted, but then what happens?

These names, though. Skinner and Pacioretty? Why?

And if they're going to trade Schmaltz and a 1st, at least trade for younger established players.

- 333inthe3rd


If AA is part of the deal for Patches then it's a win win no? You get a leader and someone to fill the net during the now, and then you can choose to let him walk next year and have all that money off the books from AA and Patches. Same goes with Stralman which is another expiring contract. If the Hawks don't have to mortgage the future for these two guys, they both can make this upcoming season at least interesting, and let them walk if they choose. A long with Kunitz and Cam Ward at the end of the season. The organization would have options/flexibility beyond this year, and potentially a lot of cap space.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jul 13 @ 11:04 AM ET
Everyone keeps talking about this "baby core" leading us to the next Cup. Well, where is the next Hossa to lead that "baby core" ?? And does anyone here really believe the "baby core" is/will be capable of that?? Right now at least, I don't see it.


I still contend, no Hossa, perhaps no Cups.

- BobP.


Agree, as of today. It would have to start with Boqvist being the next Karlsson, Joki the next Seabs, Beaudin a top 4, Schmaltz develop into a legit 1 or 2 C and Dcat a 75 point guy. Then hit with guys like Wise, Gilbert, Carlsson, Sikura types.

Not unreasonable as it was before the draft.
mrpaulish
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Itasca, IL
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jul 13 @ 11:05 AM ET
Well Max is looking for about $7M x 8 from whoever the acquiring team is and Bergevin has let it slip that they don't intend to offer him an extension. So what position are the Habs in to demand a big return? I'd say not very good.

I doubt the Hawks would sign on for big money long term for Max. Straight up they might offer up Anisimov plus one of their 17 signed defenceman. Otherwise I think it would have to be a multi player deal.

- RickJ






The Habs dont want him and Patches will be testing free agency. Habs do not hold the leverage here.

Very interested to see what Bowman does now that he has room to work and in better financial situation than a lot of other GMs plus 3 cups in the bank. Bowman now has the leverage. Lets see what happens
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jul 13 @ 11:07 AM ET
No, the teams did not know the cap recapture penalties for a lot of contracts that were approved under the old CBA. The league approved the Hossa contract (among many others), and then in the new CBA decided to add a penalty after the fact. That's why the cap recapture penalty for contracts signed under the old CBA are complete and utter BS.
- Hawksfan37


Never have, or will, understand why a team ala Al Davis didn't take the league to court over this.
333inthe3rd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 02.04.2015

Jul 13 @ 11:10 AM ET
If AA is part of the deal for Patches then it's a win win no? You get a leader and someone to fill the net during the now, and then you can choose to let him walk next year and have all that money off the books from AA and Patches. Same goes with Stralman which is another expiring contract. If the Hawks don't have to mortgage the future for these two guys, they both can make this upcoming season at least interesting, and then the organization has options/flexibility beyond this year, and potentially a lot of cap space.
- SoftServe


Ah yes, Anisimov. Forgive me, my mind drifted away from his name. But younger guys, unless they are not deemed as long term winning solutions, then I pass. That is a dangerous game.
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

Jul 13 @ 11:20 AM ET
Shrewd Stevie Y signings

Callahan...6yrs 35mil and NMC, modified NTC

His last 3yrs..158gms, 17g and 33 assists

Ryan McDonough's contract starts after next season, when he will be 30

7yrs 47.25mil...or 6.75per and NTC. Same as Seabrook (who has won a few things).

Yet Stevie Y is "shrewd" while Stan is an idiot.
Takemedrunkimhome
Montreal Canadiens
Joined: 03.08.2018

Jul 13 @ 11:21 AM ET
Well Max is looking for about $7M x 8 from whoever the acquiring team is and Bergevin has let it slip that they don't intend to offer him an extension. So what position are the Habs in to demand a big return? I'd say not very good.

I doubt the Hawks would sign on for big money long term for Max. Straight up they might offer up Anisimov plus one of their 17 signed defenceman. Otherwise I think it would have to be a multi player deal.

- RickJ

The Habs are in a similar glut situation with too many d and Anisimov wouldn't make sense in any way for the Habs. In no way does that mean I can't see Bergevin doing it...just saying both Anisimov and NHL level 5/6 d make no sense for the Habs
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