i suspect this trade ends up like the duclair trade.
yotes will have hinostorza and the 3rd to show for it. hawks will have nothing but the cap space from hossa. - Tumbleweed
And there would be nothing wrong with that. Panik was a cap dump too.
Amazing how in Tanner's view Hawk players immediately become so much better when they become ex-Hawks. I wonder how many of the posters supporting him had to goggle these guys to find out who they even were?
Outside of Hjalmarsson each team just has been interchanging a bunch of dime a dozen pieces. At least the hawks are opening up cap space and contract numbers. - DDM-Coga
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley! Joined: 08.06.2010
Jul 12 @ 7:55 PM ET
The question is if Oesterle is a real player or was he a player on a bad team?
Blackhawks were nasty last year. Doesn't mean every player was bad, doesn't mean Oesterle was bad.
But he struck me as not a part of the solution and more part of the problem. Just me from watching them play. I could obviously be wrong.
I'd just say hold off until you get him in the lineup. Hinostroza is an NHLer. I'd be more careful about Oesterle, but that's just me - AllInForFlyers
Big O actually tried to get out of the way of pucks being shot at the Blackhawk net, rather than doing something helpful, like blocking the shot. And don’t expect to find him anywhere near the rink corners, he doesn’t like checking either.
Location: North Cederbrooke , ON Joined: 01.19.2017
Jul 12 @ 8:55 PM ET
Finally someone who knows what they're talking about.
Almost every single blog from Tanner is totally biased and lacks objectivity.
Personally, I think the Hawks won this one. They got Entwistle and cap space. Whereas the Yotes got a bunch of crap. Yotes could have gotten more to take on Hossa's contract.
Cap space is king. - Steve32
What I love about the internet is that if you don't agree with someone, they're 'biased' and lack 'objectivity.' The take you are praising is very bad because its assuming all non-name brand players are bad. Oh Jordan Osterle? He sucks even though I've never seen him play or even watched him if I did, and I don't care about stats.
Sure, trust that guys 'unbiased' opinion. My opinion is this: I looked up his stats and he's a good player. The end.
The Coyotes have established a pattern of seeking out players who fit a certain analytic mold and which are undervalued by other teams.
They got Demers for peanuts. Now they have Osterle, and VH. They picked up Panik. Josh Archibald, Nick Cousins. these guys aren't going to set the world on fire, but theyve created a situation where their bottom of teh roster players are much better than most teams.
Outside of Hjalmarsson each team just has been interchanging a bunch of dime a dozen pieces. At least the hawks are opening up cap space and contract numbers. - DDM-Coga
If these were 'dime a dozen pieces' then every team in the NHL would have a perfectly acceptable bottom of teh roster. But we know that isn't true. NHL teams actually have real trouble filling out the bottom of their rosters - they over pay for demonstrably ineffective grinders, aging ex-stars etc. while most teams fail to recognize the value in players like Hinistonza, Oesterle, etc.
Also Panick is a decently offensive player with near-elite level defensive impacts. He's definitely a player who is good.
Bowman should probably not be trading with Chayka anymore.
Location: North Cederbrooke , ON Joined: 01.19.2017
Jul 12 @ 9:06 PM ET
Arizona can find a cap dump anywhere. There are few if any teams willing to take on cap dumps in this manner
Chayka NEVER leverages that fact enough, he’s got something (no pressure to win of have a team with more than 1 or 2 good players and cap space) that almost no other team has
Chicago was over a barrel and Chayka undersold his position again - RoloTahmasee
Based off what? You're intimate knowledge of what every team is willing to pay for cap space?
People have strong opinions on trades involving players they've never heard of. This is probably a good trade for both teams, but the Coyotes - at worst - end up with two quality NHL players with the chance that Vince H. is a diamond in the rough type guy.
What I love about the internet is that if you don't agree with someone, they're 'biased' and lack 'objectivity.' The take you are praising is very bad because its assuming all non-name brand players are bad. Oh Jordan Osterle? He sucks even though I've never seen him play or even watched him if I did, and I don't care about stats.
Sure, trust that guys 'unbiased' opinion. My opinion is this: I looked up his stats and he's a good player. The end.
The Coyotes have established a pattern of seeking out players who fit a certain analytic mold and which are undervalued by other teams.
They got Demers for peanuts. Now they have Osterle, and VH. They picked up Panik. Josh Archibald, Nick Cousins. these guys aren't going to set the world on fire, but theyve created a situation where their bottom of teh roster players are much better than most teams. - james_tanner1
It's not automatic that a person lacks objectivity if I don't agree with them.
But in your case it applies because you think Chayka is the best GM, everything he does is gold, Raanta is among the best goalies in the league, the Yotes dmen are among the best in the league, Yotes are a contender blah blah blah. It's all the opinion of someone who blindly loves his team and wants them to be great. This is the definition of lacking objectivity. As a "journalist", you're supposed to set aside your personal opinions/wishful thinking and report the facts objectively. I know this because i am a journalist.
I'm also a die hard hockey fan (not just a fan of my team) and I do look up the stats and watch over 300 games per year.
You constantly and repetitively over glorify every move Chayka makes and exaggerate the true potential of the Yotes as they currently are. Almost every blog of yours that I read is characterized by the same overtly biased opinion. Almost like your average Habs/Leafs fan.
Having said that, the only fair response to this post is to say that you are a blogger rather than a journalist which would be a complete admission to the fact that you often lack objectivity.
I also don't want to constantly rip on you. I do admire how much you love your team. I admit that I am totally biased when discussing my team. It's part of being a die hard fan. I just think you should do the same, instead of denying the obvious and glaring truth.
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB Joined: 07.24.2009
Jul 12 @ 9:26 PM ET
If these were 'dime a dozen pieces' then every team in the NHL would have a perfectly acceptable bottom of teh roster. But we know that isn't true. NHL teams actually have real trouble filling out the bottom of their rosters - they over pay for demonstrably ineffective grinders, aging ex-stars etc. while most teams fail to recognize the value in players like Hinistonza, Oesterle, etc.
Also Panick is a decently offensive player with near-elite level defensive impacts. He's definitely a player who is good.
Bowman should probably not be trading with Chayka anymore. - james_tanner1
those guys are fine, they aren't anything special that a real contending team will be clamouring for to try to win a cup. If they are filling out the vast majority of your 2nd and third lines. You might not be ready to contend yet.
It is hard to find good depth guys, but hey I think the Avs picked 3 off in waivers Barberio, Nemeth, and Nieto nd another one in a give away trade in Andrighetto.
They aren't sexy but they are find enough to fill out a roster while you are waiting for your kids to come up.
That was my point with Dime a dozen players. If you have a good management and pro scouting staff, these guys show up all the time on the market and aren't a premium to get
Location: North Cederbrooke , ON Joined: 01.19.2017
Jul 12 @ 9:36 PM ET
It's not automatic that a person lacks objectivity if I don't agree with them.
But in your case it applies because you think Chayka is the best GM, everything he does is gold, Raanta is among the best goalies in the league, the Yotes dmen are among the best in the league, Yotes are a contender blah blah blah. It's all the opinion of someone who blindly loves his team and wants them to be great. This is the definition of lacking objectivity. As a "journalist", you're supposed to set aside your personal opinions/wishful thinking and report the facts objectively. I know this because i am a journalist.
I'm also a die hard hockey fan (not just a fan of my team) and I do look up the stats and watch over 300 games per year.
You constantly and repetitively over glorify every move Chayka makes and exaggerate the true potential of the Yotes as they currently are. Almost every blog of yours that I read is characterized by the same overtly biased opinion. Almost like your average Habs/Leafs fan.
Having said that, the only fair response to this post is to say that you are a blogger rather than a journalist which would be a complete admission to the fact that you often lack objectivity.
I also don't want to constantly rip on you. I do admire how much you love your team. I admit that I am totally biased when discussing my team. It's part of being a die hard fan. I just think you should do the same, instead of denying the obvious and glaring truth. - Steve32
Dude I'm not a Coyotes fan and neither of us is a journalist. Jesus!
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL Joined: 11.06.2015
Jul 12 @ 9:38 PM ET
Big O actually tried to get out of the way of pucks being shot at the Blackhawk net, rather than doing something helpful, like blocking the shot. And don’t expect to find him anywhere near the rink corners, he doesn’t like checking either. - scottak
Except for the fact that he was third on the team in blocked shots per game behind Keith and Seabrook (97 in 55 games). I’m not defending the guy’s play, because outside of a good 10 game stretch he was out of position and turned the puck over a lot, but you can’t pin not wanting to block shots on him.
Hope the best for Vinnie. He'll add ++speed, compete, doesn't take a shift off and put up 2.17 PP/60 with 1:43 TOI on the PP while moving up and down the lineup. Top 6 speed, bottom 6 hands. He might help.......
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL Joined: 11.06.2015
Jul 12 @ 9:45 PM ET
If these were 'dime a dozen pieces' then every team in the NHL would have a perfectly acceptable bottom of teh roster. But we know that isn't true. NHL teams actually have real trouble filling out the bottom of their rosters - they over pay for demonstrably ineffective grinders, aging ex-stars etc. while most teams fail to recognize the value in players like Hinistonza, Oesterle, etc.
Also Panick is a decently offensive player with near-elite level defensive impacts. He's definitely a player who is good.
Bowman should probably not be trading with Chayka anymore. - james_tanner1
In watching a lot of these guys over the past couple years, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how effective VH is and somewhat disappointed in JO.
VH seem to find ways to gain possession in area he looks completely overmatched. Very fast and will go to the net.
JO seems like he should be really good. Smooth skater, good offensive vision, can exit the zone, but he makes about 3-4 just insanely bad decisions per game that often turn into prime scoring chances for the other team.
I get what the stats say, but context is needed there.
Location: Reveen is JB’s salad tosser Joined: 08.21.2013
Jul 12 @ 10:04 PM ET
Dude I'm not a Coyotes fan and neither of us is a journalist. Jesus! - james_tanner1
Then you should quit being the Yotes blogger. At least Frenchie gave a flying (frank) about his job and putting an effort into being the Yotes blogger. Just try some? You might actually do something good by watching a half season of the team you cover.
Ogilthorpe2 Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 37,000 FT Joined: 07.09.2009
Jul 12 @ 10:47 PM ET
What I love about the internet is that if you don't agree with someone, they're 'biased' and lack 'objectivity.' The take you are praising is very bad because its assuming all non-name brand players are bad. Oh Jordan Osterle? He sucks even though I've never seen him play or even watched him if I did, and I don't care about stats.
Sure, trust that guys 'unbiased' opinion. My opinion is this: I looked up his stats and he's a good player. The end.
The Coyotes have established a pattern of seeking out players who fit a certain analytic mold and which are undervalued by other teams.
They got Demers for peanuts. Now they have Osterle, and VH. They picked up Panik. Josh Archibald, Nick Cousins. these guys aren't going to set the world on fire, but theyve created a situation where their bottom of teh roster players are much better than most teams. - james_tanner1
There’s lies, there’s damned lies, and then there’s statistics.
Hate to break it to you, but Oesterle is not going to be an upgrade over Goligoski. Having watched nearly every game for the Hawks last season, Oesterle had his moments on the offensive side with his decent shot and getting pucks through, but on the defensive side he was just awful, and that was even paired with Keith most of the time. He's just too clueless in his own zone and isn't a big body either, so he's pretty much a #6-7 at best who is an offensive specialist.
Hinostroza will be a value pickup for sure, especially on that affordable deal he just signed. He's a very fast player, great on the forecheck, even for his tiny size. He can help on the PK as well. The issue with him is really a lack of finish. I'd say he'd be the type of guy in the right situation with a middle 6 role that could eventually get you 15 goals and 30 assists in a full season.
This is really a win for both teams. Arizona doesn't lose much of value or anything they really needed. They could care less about the cap space Hossa takes up. The Hawks get cap relief they desperately need to go acquire another top 6 winger or top 4 defenseman. Kruger will go back to doing what he does, play on the 4th line, take the dungeon shifts and win faceoffs. The swap of picks really should have little impact as even 3rd rounders are still a crapshoot, and maybe the prospect kid will develop in time to be something useful. All in all, not a deal that moves the meter a ton, but will help both teams.
Hinostroza is a speedy winger with upside. He battles hard despite being a small dude. He's likely going to blossom into a 40 point third line speedster. That's a really good pickup for a young team.
Oosterle showed signs of being an excellent bottom pair type D-man. He's a quick decision maker offensively and passes the puck well. He was also a huge bonehead at least two or three times every game. There's some refinement needed for him to be a consistent everyday guy.
The Hawks get a familiar face, a young prospect to develop under Colliton, and cap space to make a major move in the next few weeks. Both teams got what they wanted, so I consider it a win-win.
Location: Complete mis-use of stats, Is now called the Jimmy "T" special. Joined: 12.08.2007
Jul 13 @ 8:14 AM ET
Based off what? You're intimate knowledge of what every team is willing to pay for cap space?
People have strong opinions on trades involving players they've never heard of. This is probably a good trade for both teams, but the Coyotes - at worst - end up with two quality NHL players with the chance that Vince H. is a diamond in the rough type guy. - james_tanner1
Then why not just say this to begin with?
That's right!...It's all about the clicks!
Really, that's the bottom line. The Coyotes weren't gonna use the space that Hossa will take, and they don't have to necessarily put it on LTIR if they don't want to -- read that insurance even picks up 80 percent of the $1 million he's owed for the season.
- AllInForFlyers
LTIR doesn't exist unless a team is over the Upper Limit. It's not a choice for Arizona here. They're still 10M under the Cap. LTIR is not available to them until they use up that 10M which is unlikely.
