This is a hockey forum right?
- nateca44

Yes, and we are discussing advantages that certain hockey teams can use to entice players to sign with them.

I won't pretend to be tax expert, but wouldn't the structure of this contract also affect how much of his salary is taxed in those other jurisdictions?

If he is making a 1 million dollar base salary with an 11 million dollar signing bonus (as he is in year one of this deal), then that 11 million dollars was "earned" in Florida, were it is more or less tax exempt, and only the portion of the 1 million base salary would be affected by being taxed in other jurisdictions while on the road.

Again, I am not sure that this is how it actually works, but if so, that is a significant advantage.

Bringing in a salary cap made the money/business side much more important and some people really enjoy projecting salaries or contracts and discussing them.

To each their own, man.
- MattStrat

I guess. Just gets redundant, especially when 90 percent of contests are “terrible value” and every veteran signing is dumb, then all these teams seem to shed these contracts when they really need too. Just seems like nobody knows what they are talking about. It’s like Brooks Orpik. “Caps are going to hate that contract” “stupid, stupid stupid”. Caps win a cup with him and get rid of it.

I guess. Just gets redundant, especially when 90 percent of contests are “terrible value” and every veteran signing is dumb, then all these teams seem to shed these contracts when they really need too. Just seems like nobody knows what they are talking about. It’s like Brooks Orpik. “Caps are going to hate that contract” “stupid, stupid stupid”. Caps win a cup with him and get rid of it.
- Grinder47

It's because teams now have a finite amount of money they can spend on their players, and they must carefully allocate that money. So while you can talk about how good a player is on the ice, his production relative to his cap hit has to be taken into account.

I won't pretend to be tax expert, but wouldn't the structure of this contract also affect how much of his salary is taxed in those other jurisdictions?

If he is making a 1 million dollar base salary with an 11 million dollar signing bonus (as he is in year one of this deal), then that 11 million dollars was "earned" in Florida, were it is more or less tax exempt, and only the portion of the 1 million base salary would be affected by being taxed in other jurisdictions while on the road.

Again, I am not sure that this is how it actually works, but if so, that is a significant advantage.
- ATrainTwentyFour

This is also a good point i have been wondering about.

Or states could adjust their tax laws to be more competitive. Nothing can or should be done by nhl to mitigate that

I won't pretend to be tax expert, but wouldn't the structure of this contract also affect how much of his salary is taxed in those other jurisdictions?

If he is making a 1 million dollar base salary with an 11 million dollar signing bonus (as he is in year one of this deal), then that 11 million dollars was "earned" in Florida, were it is more or less tax exempt, and only the portion of the 1 million base salary would be affected by being taxed in other jurisdictions while on the road.

Again, I am not sure that this is how it actually works, but if so, that is a significant advantage.
- ATrainTwentyFour

A very useful Tax Expert tool:

https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/

This is a very interesting contract, timing is everything, note signing bonuses.

I'm sure taxes is part of the decision, but there's overwhelming evidence that shows it's pretty far down the list. I mean, JT just signed in Toronto. Shattenkirk seemingly took less money and shorter term to sign in New York. I could go on and on...

I think having the chance to win and the player/family being comfortable far outweighs taxes.

A very useful Tax Expert tool:

https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/
- walleyeb1

Based on this calculator the 9.5 with Tampa is worth more than 12 million in New York.

NYR would have to pay 12.4 to equal Tampa's 9.5 offer based on this calculator. That's incredible.

I'm sure taxes is part of the decision, but there's overwhelming evidence that shows it's pretty far down the list. I mean, JT just signed in Toronto. Shattenkirk seemingly took less money and shorter term to sign in New York. I could go on and on...

I think having the chance to win and the player/family being comfortable far outweighs taxes.
- madmike71

Punched in the numbers just for grins:

It's because teams now have a finite amount of money they can spend on their players, and they must carefully allocate that money. So while you can talk about how good a player is on the ice, his production relative to his cap hit has to be taken into account.
- jmatchett383

Yeah I know. Can’t pay Kunitz over 3 million but Haglin is great at 4. Makes a lot of sense.

Something really needs to be done with Texas and Florida teams. The advantage gained by not having state income tax isnt fair to other teams in league, especially when trying to lure FAs. I understand Kuch isn't a FA, but it's not like he signed an extension at that $$ because Yzermaan is some sort of magician.

Some formula must be factored in on contracts for teams who operate in non state tax states . He would be getting 11 mill anywhere else.
- rrentz

Talk about irony. A Rags fan complaining about salaries and what is "fair"? Your owners/team are the reason we have a salary cap.

I don’t think the appeal is there for Dallas as it is with Florida. Modano for example, spends much of his time here in Scottsdale AZ - not in Dallas where he played almost his entire career. I haven’t ran into him yet but I’m excited for when I do, I’ve heard nothing but good things about the guy

Or the rest of the country can get on board. Its not fair to the people that live in those states like NJ/NY/CA to be forced to pay those taxes.

I do believe there is a "Jock" tax where you pay a small portion of taxes everywhere you play.
- sammy87

States all earn revenue via various taxes. Tennessee for example has no income tax but has the highest sales tax in the nation. New Hampshire has really high RE taxes. Washington has a really high gas tax. Texas, Nevada, and Florida have higher sales taxes and higher property taxes. Here in Arizona we have income tax and higher sales tax, but our property taxes are a fair bit lower. So really, the players will feel it in other areas depending on their lifestyles

I won't pretend to be tax expert, but wouldn't the structure of this contract also affect how much of his salary is taxed in those other jurisdictions?

If he is making a 1 million dollar base salary with an 11 million dollar signing bonus (as he is in year one of this deal), then that 11 million dollars was "earned" in Florida, were it is more or less tax exempt, and only the portion of the 1 million base salary would be affected by being taxed in other jurisdictions while on the road.

Again, I am not sure that this is how it actually works, but if so, that is a significant advantage.
- ATrainTwentyFour

How you pay taxes is based upon where revenue is earned. The bonus is guaranteed funds and is not predicated upon playing in a certain state - so, it would be revenue earned in Tampa for Kucherov and wouldn’t require income taxes. His road games (outside of Vegas, Nashville, Dallas, and Florida) will be taxed accordingly

Maroon contract is a good deal for the blues. Building a good team down there

States all earn revenue via various taxes. Tennessee for example has no income tax but has the highest sales tax in the nation. New Hampshire has really high RE taxes. Washington has a really high gas tax. Texas, Nevada, and Florida have higher sales taxes and higher property taxes. Here in Arizona we have income tax and higher sales tax, but our property taxes are a fair bit lower. So really, the players will feel it in other areas depending on their lifestyles
- WSCTeton17

I have moved enough times to know that it all evens out across the board. The North East and West Coast though, your money will not go very far. My company has an office in Seattle, really cool place but stupid expensive.

If you're comparing western PA to TX, its about the same. Philly is more $$$$$.

I live in CO now and other than housing its pretty affordable. I never felt CA was worth the price of admission though.

How you pay taxes is based upon where revenue is earned. The bonus is guaranteed funds and is not predicated upon playing in a certain state - so, it would be revenue earned in Tampa for Kucherov and wouldn’t require income taxes. His road games (outside of Vegas, Nashville, Dallas, and Florida) will be taxed accordingly
- WSCTeton17

It’s not quite that simple unfortunately:

http://www.taxaball.com/what-is-the-jock-tax.html

@rrentz:

That's kind of a silly sentiment since the Florida and Texas teams aren't in premier hockey markets. There's a reason why Toronto fans have a Lakers like attitude and believe they are getting every free agent int he world. Toronto has a the best hockey market in the NHL and players are drawn to that. What advantage TB, FL, and DAL have in taxes is balanced out by the fact that their markets are subpar and don't have the draw that TOR, NY, MTL, and LA have.

I guess. Just gets redundant, especially when 90 percent of contests are “terrible value” and every veteran signing is dumb, then all these teams seem to shed these contracts when they really need too. Just seems like nobody knows what they are talking about. It’s like Brooks Orpik. “Caps are going to hate that contract” “stupid, stupid stupid”. Caps win a cup with him and get rid of it.
- Grinder47

My man, you could just ignore cap-related conversations. They seem to really irk you. Can't be good for the health.

@rrentz:

That's kind of a silly sentiment since the Florida and Texas teams aren't in premier hockey markets. There's a reason why Toronto fans have a Lakers like attitude and believe they are getting every free agent int he world. Toronto has a the best hockey market in the NHL and players are drawn to that. What advantage TB, FL, and DAL have in taxes is balanced out by the fact that their markets are subpar and don't have the draw that TOR, NY, MTL, and LA have.
- Victoro311

Disagree.....Theres value in living in an area where you can go to the store and not be hounded by every Dbag that wants an autograph. Or constantly being in the media for performance....Not to mention during the fall/winter you are on the road while the wife and kids are at home. Living in FL, TN, TX during that time isn't too bad. You can also look at it as if 2 teams are offering the same $$$ and say NYR is a playoff team every year, where FLA you're done in April. Make the same, less work.

Disagree.....Theres value in living in an area where you can go to the store and not be hounded by every Dbag that wants an autograph. Or constantly being in the media for performance....Not to mention during the fall/winter you are on the road while the wife and kids are at home. Living in FL, TN, TX during that time isn't too bad. You can also look at it as if 2 teams are offering the same $$$ and say NYR is a playoff team every year, where FLA you're done in April. Make the same, less work.
- sammy87

This isn't wrong. My point was that there's different perks to different cities. Crummy markets have that. Good markets turn you into living gods. Markets in Florida/Texas give you bigger paydays because of tax code. Again, everywhere has different advantages and disadvantages so its kind of silly to say the league needs to step in to do something about FL being able attract free agents because of tax code. May as well see what the league can do about making Toronto/Montreal fans care about hockey a little less so players don't want to go there to become gods.

So when is GMJR going to ink Oleksiak?

CHOOSE THE FORM OF THE DESTRUCTOR!



Yzerman is truly building something special in Tampa - from the blueprint of the Detroit dynasty years of Steve's playing days.