I would take TVR in a heartbeat. I think he's a highly underrated 3rd pairing dman.
- Rinosaur

I would also take him in a heartbeat but I don't know how you can be highly underrated as a 3rd pairing dman.... I think most would consider him a really good third pairing guy.

Karlsson may be headed to the Stars. At least Ottawa learned from the Islanders mistake

Karlsson may be headed to the Stars. At least Ottawa learned from the Islanders mistake
- 123Kid

Where did you hear that? I don't get the stars, they have good players just can't get it together

Christ that de Haan contract is better than the Johnson one in every way and we could have fit it.

Johnson better come into the Burg born again.

If you can make a trade centered around Maata for Drouin or Weber I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think Bergevin would ever do it as it would essentially be him buying high and selling low on both guys.

I don't really care about the length of Weber's contract. His real salary drops to $3M when he is 36 and $1M for the final 3 years. If he is still playing then it would be really easy to move that to a cap floor team. Weber is a legit #1 D man, and the $7.8M cap hit isn't all that terrible when you start seeing all of the other top D men signing for 9,10,11 million per year.

I'd take this D group over any other in the league maybe excluding Nashville. They could just fit him under this year's cap, next year would be really difficult but at that point they could always trade Schultz in his expiring year.

Dumo-Letang
JJ-Weber
Oleksiak-Schultz
- MacPatty

That D group is definitely not better than Nashville's and probably not better than the Sharks. The Bruins and Flyers will also be better soon. Weber is still good, but he's no longer anywhere close to elite.

Christ that de Haan contract is better than the Johnson one in every way and we could have fit it.

Johnson better come into the Burg born again.
- Victoro311

That's what bothers me the most about the JJ signing. We weren't strapped. No need to go dumpster diving for help on D.

That D group is definitely not better than Nashville's and probably not better than the Sharks. The Bruins and Flyers will also be better soon. Weber is still good, but he's no longer anywhere close to elite.
- Victoro311

Right, like I said, maybe not better than Nashville top 4 but Oleksiak & Schultz on the bottom pair is better than Nashville's 3rd pair. The others though I don't think would be close to what the Pens would have.

Moot point because it just isn't going to happen. Just saying it would be a great thing for the Pens if they could make it work.

I would also take him in a heartbeat but I don't know how you can be highly underrated as a 3rd pairing dman.... I think most would consider him a really good third pairing guy.
- MacPatty

You can always be underrated.

Christ that de Haan contract is better than the Johnson one in every way and we could have fit it.

Johnson better come into the Burg born again.
- Victoro311

This is exactly why I like the Pens signing Johnson over De Haan. Johnson has more talent to work with. Martin and Gonchar must feel like they can teach Johnson on the nuances of playing the Pens system.

I expect they will bring him along somewhat slowly like they did with Schultz, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if come playoff time Johnson is playing +22 minutes a night on the top pair. De Haan at his very peak would border on getting into the top 4.

This is exactly why I like the Pens signing Johnson over De Haan. Johnson has more talent to work with. Martin and Gonchar must feel like they can teach Johnson on the nuances of playing the Pens system.

I expect they will bring him along somewhat slowly like they did with Schultz, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if come playoff time Johnson is playing +22 minutes a night on the top pair. De Haan at his very peak would border on getting into the top 4.
- MacPatty

This is a silly take. Johnson has been playing at a fringe bottom pairing level for 7 years. de Haan has been a mid pairing caliber defenseman for the past 4. It’s one thing being optimistic about Johnson. It’s another thing to prefer him over an objectively better player.

Johnson’s absolute best case scenario is Trevor Dailey’s first season here.

This is exactly why I like the Pens signing Johnson over De Haan. Johnson has more talent to work with. Martin and Gonchar must feel like they can teach Johnson on the nuances of playing the Pens system.

I expect they will bring him along somewhat slowly like they did with Schultz, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if come playoff time Johnson is playing +22 minutes a night on the top pair. De Haan at his very peak would border on getting into the top 4.
- MacPatty

You like a signing of a player proven to not play well over one who does play well? Interesting...

Where did you hear that? I don't get the stars, they have good players just can't get it together
- 668710

Reports from the Dallas newspapers and there are some rumblings online as well.

Where did you hear that? I don't get the stars, they have good players just can't get it together
- 668710

Well, they really don't have that many good players. The Stars have a terrible gap fro the top to the bottom and their defense is pretty bad. Terrible depth.

Well, they really don't have that many good players. The Stars have a terrible gap fro the top to the bottom and their defense is pretty bad. Terrible depth.
- Rinosaur

Yea looking at it now definitely depth in the bottom 6 is lacking and prior years lehtonen and niemi didn't help either.

Yea looking at it now definitely depth in the bottom 6 is lacking and prior years lehtonen and niemi didn't help either.
- 668710

Yeah, they need to act fast. Who knows how many good years Bishop has left. Their top forwards are solid: Seguin, Benn, Nichushkin, Radulov and even Faksa and Shore are two decent bottom six, but that's not even close to being enough.

Methot and Klingberg are their top pair and after that it's a steep drop. I have no idea what their prospect pool looks like, but unless they do some damage in the UFA market, even getting Karlsson won't help them that much.

That's what bothers me the most about the JJ signing. We weren't strapped. No need to go dumpster diving for help on D.
- Thorny87

Except that there is a perfectly good reason to go dumpster diving on D: to spend the money elsewhere which would be to add a top 6 LW (JVR, Neal, or a guy like Skinner). Having said that, I’m perfectly fine with Brassard playing LW and Sheahan slotting in as 3C
Guentzel-Sid-Sprong
Brass-Geno-Kessel
Rust-Sheahan-Hornqvist
ZAR-Cullen-Hagelin
Dea, Simon, Hayes as extras

Well, they really don't have that many good players. The Stars have a terrible gap fro the top to the bottom and their defense is pretty bad. Terrible depth.
- Rinosaur

You’re right. They have some of the best players, then they have some ok players, and the depth has been bad. Spezza falling off really hurt them and that money they gave Martin Hanzal could’ve been spent elsewhere.
Their D actually aren’t that bad and they just picked up Comeau and Khudobin. They have the assets to send Spezza and a number of picks to get Karlsson and Ryan. Maybe if Karlsson agrees to an extension it’s Spezza and Dallas’ next two years of first and second round picks, which would be later picks with that roster. Seeing as how Melnyk is cheap, I think that’s enough to get it done

This is a silly take. Johnson has been playing at a fringe bottom pairing level for 7 years. de Haan has been a mid pairing caliber defenseman for the past 4. It’s one thing being optimistic about Johnson. It’s another thing to prefer him over an objectively better player.

Johnson’s absolute best case scenario is Trevor Dailey’s first season here.
- Victoro311

Some of you guys need to get real. Guys who have been fringe bottom pairing players (for 7 years no less) don't play well in excess of 20 minutes per game year in and year out. Last season was the only one where he played less than 20 minutes per game in his career. 5 times in the last 7 years he played more than 24 minutes per game. That doesn't happen when you are a bottom pairing defender.

A year from now a bunch of you will be wearing JJ jerseys and telling everyone how you knew this was going to be a great signing.

Think Johnson will cheapshot Tom Wilson after he knocks the next penguin out with his shoulder? I’m not talking like a crosscheck, like really (frank) him up. That would be cool, since you have to have an invitation to fight someone anymore.

Some of you guys need to get real. Guys who have been fringe bottom pairing players (for 7 years no less) don't play well in excess of 20 minutes per game year in and year out. Last season was the only one where he played less than 20 minutes per game in his career. 5 times in the last 7 years he played more than 24 minutes per game. That doesn't happen when you are a bottom pairing defender.

A year from now a bunch of you will be wearing JJ jerseys and telling everyone how you knew this was going to be a great signing.
- MacPatty

You say this like we want him to be bad. We don't. We're just not putting our heads in the sand about the kind of player he is.

Think Johnson will cheapshot Tom Wilson after he knocks the next penguin out with his shoulder? I’m not talking like a crosscheck, like really (frank) him up. That would be cool, since you have to have an invitation to fight someone anymore.
- Grinder47

About the only plus to JJ's game is that he can play a physical game.

Some of you guys need to get real. Guys who have been fringe bottom pairing players (for 7 years no less) don't play well in excess of 20 minutes per game year in and year out. Last season was the only one where he played less than 20 minutes per game in his career. 5 times in the last 7 years he played more than 24 minutes per game. That doesn't happen when you are a bottom pairing defender.

A year from now a bunch of you will be wearing JJ jerseys and telling everyone how you knew this was going to be a great signing.
- MacPatty

Minutes per game is not an indication of skill level. Off the top of my head I can think of multiple Penguins defensemen who played a ton of minutes despite not being good. Rob Scuderi, Ron Hainsey, and Trevor Dailey's second year.

Cut the coaches are infallible crap. If you want to trick yourself into thinking Johnson was a good signing with no down side, then go ahead. I'm just being realistic so I can be pleasantly surprised if he ends up being fine rather than disappointed or going into flat out denial like a lot of people on this board are preparing themselves to do if Jack Johnson ends up being as bad as a lot of us fear.

You don't have to worry about me pretending like always thought Johnson was going to be good if he succeeds. I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong like I did with Schultz. The question is are you willing to admit you were wrong if he sucks, or are you gonna die on his hill to #OwnTheWilsonites?

Some of you guys need to get real. Guys who have been fringe bottom pairing players (for 7 years no less) don't play well in excess of 20 minutes per game year in and year out. Last season was the only one where he played less than 20 minutes per game in his career. 5 times in the last 7 years he played more than 24 minutes per game. That doesn't happen when you are a bottom pairing defender.

A year from now a bunch of you will be wearing JJ jerseys and telling everyone how you knew this was going to be a great signing.
- MacPatty

Just cause you play a lot of minutes doesn’t mean you don’t produce like a bottom pair defensemen. You need to get real.

Only in this forum is there so much complaining about the 3rd pairing Defenceman and the 4th line winger/center at 650k

Stick your head up and smell the roses once and a while

Minutes per game is not an indication of skill level. Off the top of my head I can think of multiple Penguins defensemen who played a ton of minutes despite not being good. Rob Scuderi, Ron Hainsey, and Trevor Dailey's second year.

You don't have to worry about me pretending like always thought Johnson was going to be good if he succeeds. I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong like I did with Schultz. The question is are you willing to admit you were wrong if he sucks, or are you gonna die on his hill to #OwnTheWilsonites?
- Victoro311

Scuderi never played heavy minutes for the Pens, Daley played maybe 20 and Hainsey only played a handful of games for the Pens.

While it certainly isn't a primary indicator of skill, every coach he has played for has given Johnson right around top pairing minutes. That means that every coach he has played for thought they had a better chance of winning with him on the ice than the other defencemen on the team. De Haan... not so much.

I was impartial to the Pens signing Johnson and by no means do I think he is a superstar but I think there is a better chance he is a positive influence on the Pens than an albatross that weighs the team down. If he sucks I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.