this is so exciting!!!

dominoes!!!!!

its happening!!!

ok I'll stop now.

Sure he would've learned a few things to temper expectations. This doesn't mean the dream is dead.
- Thecakeisalie

Doesn't mean that dream exists unless you can prove it which nobody has been able to yet.

How is that possibly a big assumption? He loved the Leafs, and loved playing hockey. Of course he would've imagined playing in the NHL and why would he possibly stop there and imagine himself playing for a different team other than his favorite? Do you think he dreamed of playing for the Sharks?

It's a big assumption because playing for the Leafs has big costs attached to it both financially and emotionally. He has to give up money, privacy and join a team that isn't as good as the others who are trying to sign him.

While he might have a better chance winning a cup in Tampa, he has a decent chance of winning one in Toronto, definitely at the moment, better odds than he does of winning in Long Island.

He's free to go where he wants, why would he settle for "decent" when he can have the best salary and the best team? Because of a childhood fantasy that everybody hopes he has?

But Long Island offers him more money, he doesn't have to move, the team is run by people he can actually trust and respect. It's relatively quiet to Toronto too.

If it's taking money out of his pocket, it's a big factor. 12 million USD difference from the Leafs and the Lightning. Plus the fact that the Lightning are legit contenders.
- Unholy_Goalie

If it was almost all about money, he wouldn’t have had these odd meetings. He’s more interested in playing for a team where he can maximize his play and pay at the same time. Toronto has a lot of things going for it. One trade of Nylander for a dman could be all it takes.

If it's taking money out of his pocket, it's a big factor. 12 million USD difference from the Leafs and the Lightning. Plus the fact that the Lightning are legit contenders.
- Unholy_Goalie

As mentioned, there are ways of easing the tax situation for him, but that's an exhaustive conversation. I go through it every year on my own due to my situation.

I'm sorry but it's just not as black and white as you're painting it. Winning, living conditions and money are the three things guys look at, at least the guys I used to know, I'm old'ish.

As mentioned, there are ways of easing the tax situation for him, but that's an exhaustive conversation. I go through it every year on my own due to my situation.

I'm sorry but it's just not as black and white as you're painting it. Winning, living conditions and money are the three things guys look at, at least the guys I used to know, I'm old'ish.
- LeftCoaster

You are old.

[quoteHe has to give up money, privacy and join a team that isn't as good as the others who are trying to sign him.


Meh he went relatively undetected at the shops on don mills, until my buddy spotted him out..

WTF else is he doing now. He earned the right. why not.

C'mon UG, you know it happening, stop fighting it, say it with me:

he will be a leaf July 1


- mel_vin

I need to see tangible proof. A lot more than "he was a Leafs fan as a kid".

If the Leafs were the #1 team in the Atlantic, okay, I'd buy it. Or there was no salary cap and the Leafs blew the doors off every other offer on the table.

But the only thing that Toronto MIGHT have is a childhood dream of him playing for the Leafs that nobody has been able to prove.

I'll believe it when I see it and I'd be glad to see him be a Leafs player. It's got nothing to do with not wanting him to join the team. I just don't see enough evidence to believe that Toronto is where he'll decide to go.

You are old.
- RafiDRW

ISH

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'm a USD earner who lives in Canada so I'm familiar with the process, on a much lower scale however.
- LeftCoaster

So Canadian!

If it was almost all about money, he wouldn’t have had these odd meetings. He’s more interested in playing for a team where he can maximize his play and pay at the same time. Toronto has a lot of things going for it. One trade of Nylander for a dman could be all it takes.
- RafiDRW

That's not necessarily true. You can't negotiate unless you have other places to go. He can't get Lou to offer him more money if he doesn't make it believable he's going to leave. This is probably why Toronto was first on the list because they're not stupid and know how much more money he can make in other cities so odds are, he was hoping they gave him a massive offer so he has something to counter offer Lou when they meet.

Toronto has to make deals that MIGHT make them better on D. Tampa Bay has everything they need. Boston is a contender too. San Jose went to the Finals not long ago. Toronto still has significant work to do so if he wants to win, he has better options that pay him better too.

I need to see tangible proof. A lot more than "he was a Leafs fan as a kid".

If the Leafs were the #1 team in the Atlantic, okay, I'd buy it. Or there was no salary cap and the Leafs blew the doors off every other offer on the table.

But the only thing that Toronto MIGHT have is a childhood dream of him playing for the Leafs that nobody has been able to prove.

I'll believe it when I see it and I'd be glad to see him be a Leafs player. It's got nothing to do with not wanting him to join the team. I just don't see enough evidence to believe that Toronto is where he'll decide to go.
- Unholy_Goalie

oy vey....ok lets try this again:

known fact Leafs were child hood favorite
known fact his family is important to him
boy genius GM
Great supporting cast: Mathews, Marner, Willie (assuming they can keep him) Anderson
Shanny jedi mind tricks
Coach history with Babs
Endorsments gallore
Clarkson used to play here

As mentioned, there are ways of easing the tax situation for him, but that's an exhaustive conversation. I go through it every year on my own due to my situation.

I'm sorry but it's just not as black and white as you're painting it. Winning, living conditions and money are the three things guys look at, at least the guys I used to know, I'm old'ish.
- LeftCoaster

Winning is more likely on other teams. Money is tied to taxes and again, the Leafs are on the short end of that stick. Living conditions could go many ways but the pressure in Toronto is sky high plus Canadian winters.

That's not necessarily true. You can't negotiate unless you have other places to go. He can't get Lou to offer him more money if he doesn't make it believable he's going to leave. This is probably why Toronto was first on the list because they're not stupid and know how much more money he can make in other cities so odds are, he was hoping they gave him a massive offer so he has something to counter offer Lou when they meet.

Toronto has to make deals that MIGHT make them better on D. Tampa Bay has everything they need. Boston is a contender too. San Jose went to the Finals not long ago. Toronto still has significant work to do so if he wants to win, he has better options that pay him better too.
- Unholy_Goalie

While I agree, I think everyone besides you believes it’s not a forgone conclusion that he’s NOT picking Toronto and it’s got a very decent shot of being his destination, in fact.

ISH
- LeftCoaster

So, old, but not Iggy old. Gotcha.

Oh, myself and every other Wings fan knows this. Problem is, higher ups in the organization might not. Rumors of resigning Vanek, Green and (frank)ing Filpulla abound.
- RafiDRW

Sounds familiar. Leafs have suffered lots of idiot GM's that thought the team was better than it was or could be "fast tracked back to respectability".

Winning is more likely on other teams. Money is tied to taxes and again, the Leafs are on the short end of that stick. Living conditions could go many ways but the pressure in Toronto is sky high plus Canadian winters.
- Unholy_Goalie

I would say the pressure is more of a deterrent than anything, and probably why not a lot of UFA's sign in Toronto these days or even the older days. Only guys at the VERY end of their career when they're not very effective anymore were the only ones they could sign.

The rules have changed however, guys reach UFA status at a much younger age now. So maybe it only takes one guy to test the waters.

Personally, if I were him, I wouldn't sign there, that wasn't my issue with your conversation, it was the matter of factness of your stance on money that I took issue with.

So, old, but not Iggy old. Gotcha.
- RafiDRW

I'm in my 50's but that's not old, it's middle age lol. I just became a grandfather three months ago though, so I may reconsider my stance on it??

While I agree, I think everyone besides you believes it’s not a forgone conclusion that he’s NOT picking Toronto and it’s got a very decent shot of being his destination, in fact.
- RafiDRW

I never once said it was a zero percentage chance. I said the odds are heavily stacked against the Leafs for various reasons.

The shot they have at him is the money and if they offer him way more than everybody else. If he gets 14 million a year, odds are the other teams either can't fit him, they walk away or if they match (the Islander and/or Dallas), the Leafs have the better team.

But if all the teams offer him 11 or 12 million across the board, it's very hard to believe he's picking Toronto and leaving a lot of money on the table to join an inferior team with twice the pressure.

Sounds familiar. Leafs have suffered lots of idiot GM's that thought the team was better than it was or could be "fast tracked back to respectability".
- Thecakeisalie

Never had a bad management group for the Wings from the day I was born. Even now, they seem to be at worse, ok. My worst fear is Seattle scoops up Holland and in steps Milbury and Snow as co-GMs.

I'm in my 50's but that's not old, it's middle age lol. I just became a grandfather three months ago though, so I may reconsider my stance on it??
- LeftCoaster

Gramps, woah! Congrats.

early 40s here

I would say the pressure is more of a deterant than anything, and probably why not a lot of UFA sign in Toronto these days or even the older days. Only guys at the VERY end of their career when they're not very effective anymore were the only ones they could sign.

The rules have changed however, guys reach UFA status at a much younger age now. So maybe it only takes one guy to test the waters.

Personally, if I were him, I wouldn't sign there, that wasn't my issue with your conversation, it was the matter of factness of your stance on money that I took issue with.
- LeftCoaster

You can cut it any way you like, he walks away with more money playing in Tampa Bay or Long Island than he does in Toronto if all 3 teams offer him 11 years over 7 or 8 years.

I never once said it was a zero percentage chance. I said the odds are heavily stacked against the Leafs for various reasons.

The shot they have at him is the money and if they offer him way more than everybody else. If he gets 14 million a year, odds are the other teams either can't fit him, they walk away or if they match (the Islander and/or Dallas), the Leafs have the better team.

But if all the teams offer him 11 or 12 million across the board, it's very hard to believe he's picking Toronto and leaving a lot of money on the table to join an inferior team with twice the pressure.
- Unholy_Goalie

Whatever ends up happening, I’m sure it’ll surprise a poop ton of people.

While I agree, I think everyone besides you believes it’s not a forgone conclusion that he’s NOT picking Toronto and it’s got a very decent shot of being his destination, in fact.
- RafiDRW

This is exactly it. We wouldn't have an argument if UG wasn't so adamant that the chances for the Leafs to get Tavares is so totally minuscule.
We all know its a long shot. We just think he's making too big a deal out of how poopty their chances actually are.

According to him the only thing Toronto offers is money, nothing else. But they don't offer money either cause taxes.

This is exactly it. We wouldn't have an argument if UG wasn't so adamant that the chances for the Leafs to get Tavares is totally minuscule.
According to him the only thing Toronto offers is money, nothing else. But they don't offer money either cause taxes.
- Thecakeisalie

Benjamin Franklin said it best.

“Two things are certain in life: Taxes. And UG arguing about taxes. “

Gramps, woah! Congrats.

early 40s here
- mel_vin

Thanks...