You have firsthand experience as an NHL athlete? Doubt it.

Any property he has in Canada could be under different names and where he resides for most of the year is what really matters. Closing Canadian bank accounts, applying for American residency (lived in Long Island for the majority of the past 9 years) or even dual citizenship isn't hard to do with millions of dollars on the line.

Guaranteed, he has people who figure all of this stuff out for him but by now it should be painfully obvious that states with no state income tax still yield him more money than he would make in Toronto.

And I guess you forgot to read this part on the TSN calculator.

Special thank you to the Gavin Group, a leading financial advisor to NHL players, for the current tax data.

Pretty sure they know a lot more about this than you do. Just because you went to Boston for a cup of clam chowder doesn't mean you know how it works for multi-millionaire NHL players because this is literally what Gavin Group does as a business and there's no way they'd be lending their name to TSN unless the figures they put forward were accurate.

TL;DR: You're wrong.
- Unholy_Goalie

1. I am a financial advisor.

2. I do a lot of tax and estate planning for high net worth people. Including cross border.

3. I know a couple NHL personnels and how this type of stuff looks for them.

4. You forgot the part where he is paid in US dollars but his expenses would be in Canadian dollars living up here making his income go further.

5. JT files a tax return for both Canada and the US. They differ as the US and Canada have different tax treatments. Example, a NHL player built a backyard basketball/tennis and rink in the states and the US allowed him to claim it as a training facility for a tax credit. Canada did not. So he paid a little more here.

6. As you said JT has professionals taking care of his money which means he will be fine with any contract he gets. What a 5 million when you'll have made 100 million in your playing career? He will be fine. I honestly doubt the contract is his biggest concern in choosing.

Is the pope a Leafs fan?

I still think there is a far greater chance we don't land Tavares, but do think we have a better chance than we did with Stamkos. The team is in a much better situation.
- Thecakeisalie

Leafs aren't a junior hockey team so I doubt it.

Maybe slightly better than Stamkos but still not a big enough chance to warrant the hype a lot of people are generating in their own minds.

Make no mistake about it, I want the Leafs to sign Tavares. Nothing this offseason outside of maybe getting a real, legit, #1 RHD would make me happier. I just don't see any real evidence that says he will come to Toronto. And I know some people who know him and I don't get a good feeling from them either. It'd take a miracle. He'd have to leave money on the table, come to a team that still has garbage defense and isn't as good as the other teams courting him and walk into a pressure cooker of media and fans despite being a guy who has always avoided the limelight.

He could do all that same poop in the US, if not more. Do we really need to go over the fact that Canada has way more and way higher taxes than in the US? Especially for millionaires? Come on now...

Teams with no state tax have a significant advantage of offering more money. It's a fact. People need to accept it because it's the (frank)ing truth and it's not the difference between nickles and dimes; it's millions of (frank)ing dollars difference.



So this Gavin Group just decided to throw their name out there with inaccurate numbers? Doubt it.



Just serving it right back to him.
- Unholy_Goalie

I doubt any exemptions would be enough to make Toronto provide the same after taxes income as somewhere like Tampa, but obviously those things help mitigate the amount of money you lose to taxes.

Since the Gavin group wouldn't know exactly how Tavares would choose to use those methods, they could either guess, or just not include them. I'm betting they ignored them, rather than guessing what exemptions JT would find and use in each city, how much charity he would give, etc.

So that setup of theirs wouldn't be totally accurate. At the same time, it's not actually false, its just not including some things.

Sigh, you're right.




- Thecakeisalie

oh the puns from that gif

With all this tax talk my guess is if Tavares put net income after tax at the top of his list the Leafs wouldn't have been in the meetings. It would have been:

Tampa
Dallas
Vegas
Nashville
Panthers

1. I am a financial advisor.

2. I do a lot of tax and estate planning for high net worth people. Including cross border.

3. I know a couple NHL personnels and how this type of stuff looks for them.

4. You forgot the part where he is paid in US dollars but his expenses would be in Canadian dollars living up here making his income go further.

5. JT files a tax return for both Canada and the US. They differ as the US and Canada have different tax treatments. Example, a NHL player built a backyard basketball/tennis and rink in the states and the US allowed him to claim it as a training facility for a tax credit. Canada did not. So he paid a little more here.

6. As you said JT has professionals taking care of his money which means he will be fine with any contract he gets. What a 5 million when you'll have made 100 million in your playing career? He will be fine. I honestly doubt the contract is his biggest concern in choosing.
- Aaron_85

Depends on the cost of living which could vary. His cost of living in Toronto isn't necessarily lower than in Tampa Bay or other locations nor would it make up the massive differences in salary.

The difference is millions of dollars he can make right now that he won't be able to make later in his life. It definitely matters. These guys don't put their feet up and stop caring about the money after the first few million otherwise we'd be seeing every second UFA sign for the league minimum to play for the previous Cup winner.

oh the puns from that gif
- zazzle

You noticed my hidden wussycat hanging out with all those erect, eh hm, male chickens, huh?

With all this tax talk my guess is if Tavares put net income after tax at the top of his list the Leafs wouldn't have been in the meetings. It would have been:

Tampa
Dallas
Vegas
Nashville
Panthers
- Aaron_85

Long Island is up there too because of the 8th year which makes him more money than Toronto, San Jose and Boston.

Depends on the cost of living which could vary. His cost of living in Toronto isn't necessarily lower than in Tampa Bay or other locations nor would it make up the massive differences in salary.

The difference is millions of dollars he can make right now that he won't be able to make later in his life. It definitely matters. These guys don't put their feet up and stop caring about the money after the first few million otherwise we'd be seeing every second UFA sign for the league minimum to play for the previous Cup winner.
- Unholy_Goalie

Dude drop this, you are not an NHL'er yourself. You are also NOT JT.

He will be a leaf, you need to trust me on this one

Depends on the cost of living which could vary. His cost of living in Toronto isn't necessarily lower than in Tampa Bay or other locations nor would it make up the massive differences in salary.

The difference is millions of dollars he can make right now that he won't be able to make later in his life. It definitely matters. These guys don't put their feet up and stop caring about the money after the first few million otherwise we'd be seeing every second UFA sign for the league minimum to play for the previous Cup winner.
- Unholy_Goalie

His dollar automatically goes further in Canada compared to the US. 20% further in fact. Without factoring in cost of living. I'd consider it would be a wash considering he has lived in new York for 9 years.

NHLPA actually stops a lot of that happening..unions dont like or wouldn't allow a top star to take cheap money simply to win since it would have a ripple effect throughout the league. However yes they care about money but 5 million isn't going to change his lifestyle by a significant amount at 100 million. Which is what hes guaranteed to make after this contract.

I doubt any exemptions would be enough to make Toronto provide the same after taxes income as somewhere like Tampa, but obviously those things help mitigate the amount of money you lose to taxes.

Since the Gavin group wouldn't know exactly how Tavares would choose to use those methods, they could either guess, or just not include them. I'm betting they ignored them, rather than guessing what exemptions JT would find and use in each city, how much charity he would give, etc.

So that setup of theirs wouldn't be totally accurate. At the same time, it's not actually false, its just not including some things.
- Thecakeisalie

Any way you cut it, the Leafs most likely have to give him a McDavid contract to match the offers of the Islanders and Lightning. Is it worth it at that point? And that's what might happen during the meeting. Tavares could say, I'll come home if I make the same money as I do in other cities but for the Leafs to do that, they have to overpay him to compensate for the money he'd be losing by playing in Toronto.

The Gavin Group most likely used the fixed numbers that they can predetermine and those numbers show a giant difference in money between Toronto and Tampa Bay. If it was a few thousand dollars, you could think it's negligible but it's almost 10 million dollars difference. It's too much to bridge the gap with a couple loopholes.

Long Island is up there too because of the 8th year which makes him more money than Toronto, San Jose and Boston.
- Unholy_Goalie

Long island is only in the running for the 8th year and because he was drafted there.

Let's be honest, if he came from another team and saw what they were this year I doubt hed give them any type of meeting.

Leafs aren't a junior hockey team so I doubt it.
- Unholy_Goalie

Terrible.

Maybe slightly better than Stamkos but still not a big enough chance to warrant the hype a lot of people are generating in their own minds.

Make no mistake about it, I want the Leafs to sign Tavares. Nothing this offseason outside of maybe getting a real, legit, #1 RHD would make me happier. I just don't see any real evidence that says he will come to Toronto. And I know some people who know him and I don't get a good feeling from them either. It'd take a miracle. He'd have to leave money on the table, come to a team that still has garbage defense and isn't as good as the other teams courting him and walk into a pressure cooker of media and fans despite being a guy who has always avoided the limelight.
- Unholy_Goalie

Of course people are excited. He's a superstar and there is an actual possiblity (no matter how small a chance you think it is) that he could join the Leafs. Of course people are excited and hopeful.

I do think the money plays a big factor and it is stacked against the Leafs.

The defense does need work.

I think you make too much of a big deal about pressure and him not wanting the limelight.
It's speculation on your part that he cares that much. I'd say at most, that it is an equal exchange to his desire to play for his childhood team.
Don't make one emotional reason out to be all important while dismissing another that goes against your argument.

TAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

His dollar automatically goes further in Canada compared to the US. 20% further in fact. Without factoring in cost of living. I'd consider it would be a wash considering he has lived in new York for 9 years.

NHLPA actually stops a lot of that happening..unions dont like or wouldn't allow a top star to take cheap money simply to win since it would have a ripple effect throughout the league. However yes they care about money but 5 million isn't going to change his lifestyle by a significant amount at 100 million. Which is what hes guaranteed to make after this contract.
- Aaron_85

It doesn't necessarily work out that easily. He'd have to convert his US dollars to Canadian dollars and that isn't free. He'll lose money on that alone. A lot of Canadian products come from the US and are taxed and marked up. Again, depending where he lives, the cost a living makes a big difference. He doesn't necessarily save money by living in Canada year round. And he lived in Long Island, not Manhattan. There's a significant difference in cost of living.

NHLPA couldn't do poop if players wanted to sign for league minimum. It doesn't happen because players are always trying to maximize their earnings because they're human beings who lose half of what they earn in taxes and only have a small window of opportunity to earn money for their skills. 5 million matters because it's still 5 million. I could buy the argument in a Ray Bourque situation but usually when players take a pay cut to win, they lose and don't make that money back and they'll most likely regret it. That's why they have agents who are hired to maximize their dollars whether it's 100 or 105 million, they're going for the max.

Any way you cut it, the Leafs most likely have to give him a McDavid contract to match the offers of the Islanders and Lightning. Is it worth it at that point? And that's what might happen during the meeting. Tavares could say, I'll come home if I make the same money as I do in other cities but for the Leafs to do that, they have to overpay him to compensate for the money he'd be losing by playing in Toronto.

The Gavin Group most likely used the fixed numbers that they can predetermine and those numbers show a giant difference in money between Toronto and Tampa Bay. If it was a few thousand dollars, you could think it's negligible but it's almost 10 million dollars difference. It's too much to bridge the gap with a couple loopholes.
- Unholy_Goalie

He lives in Canada and he gets an additional 7.2 million due to the exchange rate (I did 20% even though the dollar is worse) so his 36 million is 43 million. A lot more comparable. If your the Leafs you use this in the meeting. On top of endorsements.

Long island is only in the running for the 8th year and because he was drafted there.

Let's be honest, if he came from another team and saw what they were this year I doubt hed give them any type of meeting.
- Aaron_85

Yeah, but he didn't and it's an advantage they have. It's also run by Lou and Trotz behind the bench. A pair of solid 1st round picks, Eberle, Barzal; they need a goalie really bad but Lou knows goalies and odds are he made that promise already. The Islanders have a money advantage more than a contender advantage but it's still an advantage.

He lives in Canada and he gets an additional 7.2 million due to the exchange rate (I did 20% even though the dollar is worse) so his 36 million is 43 million. A lot more comparable. If your the Leafs you use this in the meeting. On top of endorsements.
- Aaron_85

We have it here from a genuine expert folks! So choosing the Leafs isn't actually going to lose JT that much, if anything.

Yeah, but he didn't and it's an advantage they have. It's also run by Lou and Trotz behind the bench. A pair of solid 1st round picks, Eberle, Barzal; they need a goalie really bad but Lou knows goalies and odds are he made that promise already. The Islanders have a money advantage more than a contender advantage but it's still an advantage.
- Unholy_Goalie

Lou is such a good GM!!

Terrible.



Of course people are excited. He's a superstar and there is an actual possiblity (no matter how small a chance you think it is) that he could join the Leafs. Of course people are excited and hopeful.

I do think the money plays a big factor and it is stacked against the Leafs.

The defense does need work.

I think you make too much of a big deal about pressure and him not wanting the limelight.
It's speculation on your part that he cares that much. I'd say at most, that it is an equal exchange to his desire to play for his childhood team.
Don't make one emotional reason out to be all important while dismissing another that goes against your argument.
- Thecakeisalie

It's actually more speculative to say he wants to play for his hometown team. It's a claim that requires proof that nobody seems to be able to provide. It's assuming he's a child. I'm sure he dreamed of buying an endless supply of toys when he was a kid too, doesn't mean he does that now because things change.

It doesn't necessarily work out that easily. He'd have to convert his US dollars to Canadian dollars and that isn't free. He'll lose money on that alone. A lot of Canadian products come from the US and are taxed and marked up. Again, depending where he lives, the cost a living makes a big difference. He doesn't necessarily save money by living in Canada year round. And he lived in Long Island, not Manhattan. There's a significant difference in cost of living.

NHLPA couldn't do poop if players wanted to sign for league minimum. It doesn't happen because players are always trying to maximize their earnings because they're human beings who lose half of what they earn in taxes and only have a small window of opportunity to earn money for their skills. 5 million matters because it's still 5 million. I could buy the argument in a Ray Bourque situation but usually when players take a pay cut to win, they lose and don't make that money back and they'll most likely regret it. That's why they have agents who are hired to maximize their dollars whether it's 100 or 105 million, they're going for the max.
- Unholy_Goalie

Then why do players take "home town discounts?" Players absolutely do take less money. Just not stupid low amounts and yes the union can stop deals considering they sign off on every single deal along with the league.

I didnt say he saved money I said his money goes further. You think hes being charged money to convert it into Canadian? On millions? I guarantee its virtually nothing. Banks just want that business.

Oh and I have clients who work for American companies but live up here. They get paid in Canadian. The company,in this case the team,would be doing the exchange already. I'm sure MLSE has enough Canadian dollars.

He lives in Canada and he gets an additional 7.2 million due to the exchange rate (I did 20% even though the dollar is worse) so his 36 million is 43 million. A lot more comparable. If your the Leafs you use this in the meeting. On top of endorsements.
- Aaron_85

And in Tampa Bay, he'd make 48.7 million USD which is still even more Canadian dollars.

Any way you cut it or exchange it, it's still more money in his pocket in Tampa Bay or Dallas or Long Island.

He's still losing money signing in Toronto. If his intention is to live in Toronto and retire in Toronto, he'd still be better off with the extra 12 million USD in his pocket.

Yeah, but he didn't and it's an advantage they have. It's also run by Lou and Trotz behind the bench. A pair of solid 1st round picks, Eberle, Barzal; they need a goalie really bad but Lou knows goalies and odds are he made that promise already. The Islanders have a money advantage more than a contender advantage but it's still an advantage.
- Unholy_Goalie

Its going to come down to staying in the Island, or coming home to Toronto.

I am predicting he is a Leaf July 1.

Im going to base this on the loud mouthed pork chops I know that know his extended family and what they say about him: JT is all about his family and being close to them is important to him.

I dont think he cares about tax crap. Only you do UG.

Then why do players take "home town discounts?" Players absolutely do take less money. Just not stupid low amounts and yes the union can stop deals considering they sign off on every single deal along with the league.
- Aaron_85

They don't. All the UFAs the Leafs signed in the late 90s and early 2000s, were making huge money.

I didnt say he saved money I said his money goes further. You think hes being charged money to convert it into Canadian? On millions? I guarantee its virtually nothing. Banks just want that business.

And making more USD still makes his CAD go further because he'll still have more of it playing for other teams.

Oh and I have clients who work for American companies but live up here. They get paid in Canadian. The company,in this case the team,would be doing the exchange already. I'm sure MLSE has enough Canadian dollars.

Not sure that's allowed under the CBA. Pretty sure the players have to be paid in USD.

It's actually more speculative to say he wants to play for his hometown team. It's a claim that requires proof that nobody seems to be able to provide. It's assuming he's a child. I'm sure he dreamed of buying an endless supply of toys when he was a kid too, doesn't mean he does that now because things change.
- Unholy_Goalie

ding ding ding, more credible than tax implications.