I'd prefer getting a LD actually since we have Letang and Schultz, but that's such a great value for the Pens I'd have to do it and figure out the rest later.
- Tojo.

If I'm CGY and wanted to pick up a major piece for their top-six, I'd be moving Giordano. Nothing to do with is play. I think he's quietly still one of the best offensive dmen in the league.

I think due to age and contract he'd be the wisest player to move to pick up an upgrade up front. I'm not suggesting Giordano for Kessel. I'm just looking at their situation.

Moving Phil for a dman is a bad idea unless there's another dman being shipped out to replace Phil.

I would trade Kessel for Hamilton in a heartbeat. I just don't buy that Calgary is looking to move him.

In all honesty, I am cool with Rutherford making massive moves this offseason to totally reshape the team for the long run. That means putting both Kessel and Letang on the table possibly. I'd listen on anyone outside of Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel and Hornquist.

Usually there's a cycle where guys get mentioned and it takes a couple windows. Normally I'd guess they wouldn't do this at the deadline so it would be a next year trade. But this is GMJR and he's very aggressive so I wouldn't be surprised if they made a move.
- Tojo.

My guess would be if Kessel is going to be traded it will be at the draft. My number one priority in return would a first round pick. I am not familiar with the prospects but if their is someone Pittsburgh is looking at that would be my target. Of course that is just a starting point so there will be other pieces.

I would trade Kessel for Hamilton in a heartbeat. I just don't buy that Calgary is looking to move him.

In all honesty, I am cool with Rutherford making massive moves this offseason to totally reshape the team for the long run. That means putting both Kessel and Letang on the table possibly. I'd listen on anyone outside of Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel and Hornquist.
- MacPatty

IMO you don't move Kessel unless it's an overpayment for Kessel. In another thread through around idea of Muzzin + Toffoli for Kessel... obviously too much on LA's side, but again, that's the only kind of trade I'd make.

Moving Kessel and/or Letang is dangerous because of what you need to replace them; Letang being the most difficult. It's much easier to trade Letang for a winger like Kessel than Kessel for a dman like Letang.

Kessel is not going to get you Kessel unless you're lucky enough to find a team in a similar situation. Kessel is also not going to get you a Letang. If JR were to really go at this hard, he could probably get a very good #3 dman or possibly #2 if he builds on the deal.

Letang? You should have no problems getting a 28+ year old winger depending on the situation.

If possible, I think the Pens' wisest plan should be to TRY and use Sheary, Hagelin, Hunwick and some picks to do the following:

-Change/Upgrade the forward depth.
-Change/Upgrade the 3rd pair.

That's it. They might be lateral moves, but if it's change their looking for in the style of player, then that's the route I would go.

I'd also bring Kunitz back on a one-year deal for the fourth line.

IMO you don't move Kessel unless it's an overpayment for Kessel. In another thread through around idea of Muzzin + Toffoli for Kessel... obviously too much on LA's side, but again, that's the only kind of trade I'd make.

Moving Kessel and/or Letang is dangerous because of what you need to replace them; Letang being the most difficult. It's much easier to trade Letang for a winger like Kessel than Kessel for a dman like Letang.

Kessel is not going to get you Kessel unless you're lucky enough to find a team in a similar situation. Kessel is also not going to get you a Letang. If JR were to really go at this hard, he could probably get a very good #3 dman or possibly #2 if he builds on the deal.

Letang? You should have no problems getting a 28+ year old winger depending on the situation.
- Rinosaur

I think you could trade both for decent downgrades, bringing back a big return.

Kessel for Neiderreiter and Minny's 1st rounder sounds like something that could happen.

Letang... not sure. Don't discount being able to swindle Chiarelli out of a haul. Toronto, Detroit, Vegas, Dallas would all make sense.

At the end of the day, I'd just really like to see the Pens have 3 good D pairings and 3 good scoring lines, even if it means downgrades in top end talent.

Like, if the Pens can do the previously mentioned Neiderreiter & a 1st for Kessel deal and then flip that 1st, Simon and Huntwick for Faulk I think the Pens are instantly a better team. This would be a great D grouping and though you have downgraded from Kessel, the forwards are still good enough to score... a lot!

Dumo-Letang
Maata-Schultz
Oleksiak-Faulk

I think you could trade both for decent downgrades, bringing back a big return.

Kessel for Neiderreiter and Minny's 1st rounder sounds like something that could happen.

Letang... not sure. Don't discount being able to swindle Chiarelli out of a haul. Toronto, Detroit, Vegas, Dallas would all make sense.
- MacPatty

Meh. Nino averages out to about a .4 ppg winger who makes over $5M. If trading Kessel, I want a better player or more cap savings.

Zucker would be preferred from Min.

I think you could get a Domi + for Kessel (Most likely a 2nd, depending on how much Salary was retained and all) But like what was being said, I dont think you move Kessel unless its an offer that borders larceny, BUT....

Kessel or Letang could definitely be moved to Edmonton I believe, and even if it wasnt a peak Chiarelli trade, you would still be getting back a RNH, Klefbom +1st type deal on return, which I definitely think would be worth exploring.

Allegedly. I personally don’t buy those reports.
- Rinosaur

I do, this isn't coming from rumor blogs.

Yohe's take is probably best: Phil will get traded at some poimt, but unless someone comes with a strong offer it won't be this off-season.

If I'm CGY and wanted to pick up a major piece for their top-six, I'd be moving Giordano. Nothing to do with is play. I think he's quietly still one of the best offensive dmen in the league.

I think due to age and contract he'd be the wisest player to move to pick up an upgrade up front. I'm not suggesting Giordano for Kessel. I'm just looking at their situation.

Moving Phil for a dman is a bad idea unless there's another dman being shipped out to replace Phil.
- Rinosaur

If they got a true top end defenseman, especially one who can qb a PP taking Phil's role there, it would be worth exploring. We'd lose in one area but gain in another.

Let's just say Giordano to be quick and before any other moves we have something like this:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Sprong
Sheary-Brassard-Rust
ZAR-Sheahan-Simon

Giordano-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Maatta-Oleksiak

If we had to trade Phil, is that so bad if it's a defensemen. They can still make other moves, but they're not desperate for wings.

I do, this isn't coming from rumor blogs.

Yohe's take is probably best: Phil will get traded at some poimt, but unless someone comes with a strong offer it won't be this off-season.
- Tojo.

When Mckenzie adds his two cents, you know there's a decent amount of smoke. He's always one of the more conservative "insiders" when it comes to rumors.

That's how most of us feel, but there's a rift with the coach so it might happen anyways even if it shouldn't.
- Tojo.

but who is easier to replace, an elite scorer, or a coach?
(frank) the coach in these situations, work well with your star players (the actual talent and product), or pack your poop

If they got a true top end defenseman, especially one who can qb a PP taking Phil's role there, it would be worth exploring. We'd lose in one area but gain in another.

Let's just say Giordano to be quick and before any other moves we have something like this:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Sprong
Sheary-Brassard-Rust
ZAR-Sheahan-Simon

Giordano-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Maatta-Oleksiak

If we had to trade Phil, is that so bad if it's a defensemen. They can still make other moves, but they're not desperate for wings.
- Tojo.

I'd rather getter a lesser d-man packaged with a young forward. We could use a #2, 3 or 4 d-man..but I don't see the need to try to get a number 1 unless you planned to trade Letang.

That could certainly replenish the talent pipeline and get some younger players on the team. We could prob even soften the blow of Phil and Letang departure by signing some FAs....but just seems like too many moving parts, things falling into place just right with NTCs, and change for change sake.

One thing to keep in mind about trading Phil: If Sprong busts this will really suck. Jake Guentzel is awesome and I love him, but if he's this team's best goal scoring winger, we're in trouble.

I do, this isn't coming from rumor blogs.

Yohe's take is probably best: Phil will get traded at some poimt, but unless someone comes with a strong offer it won't be this off-season.
- Tojo.

Yohe also dislikes Phil Kessel and probably wants him gone. I'm a huge Yohe fan but I have major trepidations about taking his word at face value when it comes to players he has biases for or against. Same went for Ian Cole when he was on the team. Yohe is largely good at being impartial, but he can't find the fact that he's super invested in the team and is a massive fan. This is mostly positive, but can have negative side effects.

The Bob McKenzie stuff, though, that's how I know there's fire to this smoke and it worries me.

One thing to keep in mind about trading Phil: If Sprong busts this will really suck. Jake Guentzel is awesome and I love him, but if he's this team's best goal scoring winger, we're in trouble.
- Victoro311

If Kessel gets trade they absolutely need to add a proven goal scoring winger. Other than Guentz and Hornie nobody is guaranteed to score 20. Like you say, Sprong could bust and Sheary could fall further. Hags you can probably pencil in 10. ZAR is impossible to predict, but I think 15 might be his high water mark (hopefully). Rust....again 15 or so. Simon would probably gets 5 to 8.

Or you just keep Kessel and plan on 30 or more.

Yohe also dislikes Phil Kessel and probably wants him gone. I'm a huge Yohe fan but I have major trepidations about taking his word at face value when it comes to players he has biases for or against. Same went for Ian Cole when he was on the team. Yohe is largely good at being impartial, but he can't find the fact that he's super invested in the team and is a massive fan. This is mostly positive, but can have negative side effects.

The Bob McKenzie stuff, though, that's how I know there's fire to this smoke and it worries me.
- Victoro311

I never got the vibe that Yohe disliked Kessel. James Neal.....yes....big time. Not Kessel though.

If Kessel gets trade they absolutely need to add a proven goal scoring winger. Other than Guentz and Hornie nobody is guaranteed to score 20. Like you say, Sprong could bust and Sheary could fall further. Hags you can probably pencil in 10. ZAR is impossible to predict, but I think 15 might be his high water mark (hopefully). Rust....again 15 or so. Simon would probably gets less than 5 to 8.

Or you just keep Kessel and plan on 30 or more.
- madmike71

There are option in FA but yeah in most cases that's why we need a young forward coming back in the deal

I never got the vibe that Yohe disliked Kessel. James Neal.....yes....big time. Not Kessel though.
- madmike71

He's come out and said it on twitter in so many words on a couple of occasions. When that garbage article came out a couple of weeks ago flaming Kessel and Pittsburgh sports media started getting flamed, he jumped to the defense of Cook (who is a confirmed clown) and basically called out the fans for having a flase sense of who Phil Kessel is and that the real Phil Kessel isn't the hero we want him to be. They were strong words, and while not rude or unprofessional, definitely betray a personal bias.

While we're on the subject about Yohe, he's article "The Truth about Phil Kessel" is a great piece of reporting and makes me worried about Sullivan.

Sparknotes:

Ian Cole was made available for trades and it had nothing to do with expiring contract. Sullivan wanted him gone for personal reasons.

Rutherford wanted Sprong with the big club for most of this year. Sullivan didn't and put him on a short leash. Rutheford eventually had no choice but to send Sprong back down because Sully didn't want him.

Sullivan never gave Fleury a real chance because he liked Murray more.

And of course, now this Phil thing.

I'm starting to think that Sullivan plays favorites more than the average coach and isn't good at managing his relationship with players he doesn't deem to have perfect attitudes and actively tries to oust players that get on his bad side.

It wasn't in this article, but if you guys remember back, Sullivan never wanted Reaves either and essentially overrode Rutherford's decision to quire him by not really deploying him. In this case, I believe Sullivan was correct since Reaves wasn't very good, but Reaves was also not worse than Kuhnhackl or Rowney, so this is another obvious case of Sullivan playing favorites and dictating decisions to Jim Rutherford. That's really problematic. Rutheford should put him in his place a bit.

While we're on the subject about Yohe, he's article "The Truth about Phil Kessel" is a great piece of reporting and makes me worried about Sullivan.

Sparknotes:

Ian Cole was made available for trades and it had nothing to do with expiring contract. Sullivan wanted him gone for personal reasons.

Rutherford wanted Sprong with the big club for most of this year. Sullivan didn't and put him on a short leash. Rutheford eventually had no choice but to send Sprong back down because Sully didn't want him.

Sullivan never gave Fleury a real chance because he liked Murray more.

And of course, now this Phil thing.

I'm starting to think that Sullivan plays favorites more than the average coach and isn't good at managing his relationship with players he doesn't deem to have perfect attitudes and actively tries to oust players that get on his bad side.

It wasn't in this article, but if you guys remember back, Sullivan never wanted Reaves either and essentially overrode Rutherford's decision to quire him by not really deploying him. In this case, I believe Sullivan was correct since Reaves wasn't very good, but Reaves was also not worse than Kuhnhackl or Rowney, so this is another obvious case of Sullivan playing favorites and dictating decisions to Jim Rutherford. That's really problematic. Rutheford should put him in his place a bit.
- Victoro311

I've been saying this... Sully had a very "Dan Bylsma" kind of year. He made some decisions this season that defied logic. I mean, how could you watch more than one game of Rowney, Kuhnhackl and Reaves? All I needed was one game of watching them get caved shift after shift to realize that might be the worst Penguin line in the post lockout era.

I can't remember who wrote this, I think it was Bradford on DK's site... He says the edict about getting a goon came down from ownership. Rutherford simply followed through with getting the best one in the game. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm not down on Sully yet. The Murray/Fluery debate goes no further than age and contract. I agree about Cole and Reaves. It's no coincidence that the two guys Sullivan didn't like or want, didn't finish the season in Pens' uni's. I think it will be awful if they trade Phil and his production is no reasonably replaced.....that would be my tipping point.

Edit - Dom Simon on the 1st line in the playoffs... C'mon man. What the hell was that?

While we're on the subject about Yohe, he's article "The Truth about Phil Kessel" is a great piece of reporting and makes me worried about Sullivan.

Sparknotes:

Ian Cole was made available for trades and it had nothing to do with expiring contract. Sullivan wanted him gone for personal reasons.

Rutherford wanted Sprong with the big club for most of this year. Sullivan didn't and put him on a short leash. Rutheford eventually had no choice but to send Sprong back down because Sully didn't want him.

Sullivan never gave Fleury a real chance because he liked Murray more.

And of course, now this Phil thing.


I'm starting to think that Sullivan plays favorites more than the average coach and isn't good at managing his relationship with players he doesn't deem to have perfect attitudes and actively tries to oust players that get on his bad side.

It wasn't in this article, but if you guys remember back, Sullivan never wanted Reaves either and essentially overrode Rutherford's decision to quire him by not really deploying him. In this case, I believe Sullivan was correct since Reaves wasn't very good, but Reaves was also not worse than Kuhnhackl or Rowney, so this is another obvious case of Sullivan playing favorites and dictating decisions to Jim Rutherford. That's really problematic. Rutheford should put him in his place a bit.
- Victoro311

I've heard this from a family friend that has some connections. Basically said Sully wanted MAF gone. Which is obvious from last years cup run.

Sully is easier to replace than any player on the team.

That said, I never felt Kessel was a long term piece but he's done well and i can't see him being moved at this point....maybe next year. But with Sully not wanting Sprong it makes Kessel that much more difficult to move. Sprong will be limited minutes with Sully around. Personally if I were JR I would have canned Sully after this year. He was just flat out bad in the playoffs and benching Cole/sprong all year was just dumb.

I've been saying this... Sully had a very "Dan Bylsma" kind of year. He made some decisions this season that defied logic. I mean, how could you watch more than one game of Rowney, Kuhnhackl and Reaves? All I needed was one game of watching them get caved shift after shift to realize that might be the worst Penguin line in the post lockout era.

I can't remember who wrote this, I think it was Bradford on DK's site... He says the edict about getting a goon came down from ownership. Rutherford simply followed through with getting the best one in the game. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm not down on Sully yet. The Murray/Fluery debate goes no further than age and contract. I agree about Cole and Reaves. It's no coincidence that the two guys Sullivan didn't like or want, didn't finish the season in Pens' uni's. I think it will be awful if they trade Phil and his production is no reasonably replaced.....that would be my tipping point.

Edit - Dom Simon on the 1st line in the playoffs... C'mon man. What the hell was that?
- madmike71

I don't want to paint Sullivan as an incompetent bozo. He's definitely right a lot of the time, but he has too much rope and that rope is letting him be biased without repercussions or accountability.

JR's too soft. He's incapable of bluffing and he treats people with too much respect (can't believe I just seriously said that). A boss needs to know when to put his foot down, and it sounds like he's not willing to do that with Sullivan. He needs to have a frank conversation with his coach along the lines of "Suck it up and deal with it. You won your first Cup on his back and he's the main reason you even made the playoffs this year. You're not irreplaceable and I'm done trading away players you don't like."

I'd rather getter a lesser d-man packaged with a young forward. We could use a #2, 3 or 4 d-man..but I don't see the need to try to get a number 1 unless you planned to trade Letang.

That could certainly replenish the talent pipeline and get some younger players on the team. We could prob even soften the blow of Phil and Letang departure by signing some FAs....but just seems like too many moving parts, things falling into place just right with NTCs, and change for change sake.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'd have to really like the winger to do it, but that's just a personal preference. I think our depth is good enough that we don't need ti fix it in a Kessel trade, so if we do trade him I'd rather it be star for star.