As another poster alluded to, I agree that the most logical structure of a Kessel deal is primarily for a defenseman and a young forward...with the defenseman would be the better player.

The tough part is coming up with those exact scenarios on teams we're guessing are on his 8 team list.

So looking at some potential partners, these are the kinds of players I think would make sense in a Kessel deal. The values will vary widely and im not doing all the research on contracts and things...just brainstorming to see if theres something to work with.

Ekholm + Hartman

Domi + Demers / Hjalmarsson (pens add something)

Edmundson/Dunn + Barbashev

Schmidt/McNabb/ Theodore + Haula (recency bias may inflate VGK players value too much to make this work)

Brodin + Coyle

Brodie + Bennett (or Hamilton straight up)

Bjugstad + Petrovic

They could also keep drafting guys like Bennett, Pouliot, and Morrow.

Chances are if they traded away less picks some would have become pretty good players while others would be bust but none if them would have helped them win those 2 Cups or changed them losing this year.
- Tojo.

At least you didn't draft Tom McCollum in the 1st round.

As another poster alluded to, I agree that the most logical structure of a Kessel deal is primarily for a defenseman and a young forward...with the defenseman would be the better player.

The tough part is coming up with those exact scenarios on teams we're guessing are on his 8 team list.

So looking at some potential partners, these are the kinds of players I think would make sense in a Kessel deal. The values will vary widely and im not doing all the research on contracts and things...just brainstorming to see if theres something to work with.

Ekholm + Hartman

Domi + Demers / Hjalmarsson (pens add something)

Edmundson/Dunn + Barbashev

Schmidt/McNabb/ Theodore + Haula (recency bias may inflate VGK players value too much to make this work)

Brodin + Coyle

Brodie + Bennett (or Hamilton straight up)

Bjugstad + Petrovic
- YouMeAndDupuis9

These are bad and not even consistently bad. Some are great for PIT. Some are terrible for PIT

When I consider a team, I count all 19 (sometimes 20) players who played. So if Murray played well and they won, despite what the 18 skaters on each team did, then I would say that the Penguins were better, because their team as a whole was better at scoring and preventing goals.

I understand the process vs. result argument, and in an ideal world where everything is equal, it holds up perfectly. And I think that we can all agree that players can have individual or small stretches where they get very hot or cold, you can call them luck.

However, I still argue that, to win more than a small handful of games, you generally have to have more skill than luck.
- jmatchett383

I agree with all this. Most players run a little hot and cold. That could be argued as random variance, but it's just the part of the game. When a scorer runs dry or more importantly a goalie is in the zone it's bound to happen. Guess you could call it luck when it happens at key times, but I think the goal is to aquire the best talent and coaching to give yourself the best odds then see what happens.

But this argument will necer end. We can all agree there was a huge differnce in Fleury and Holtby's performance last year. Some call that luck and some don't.

For as much talk about not being able to "win" a Kessel trade I think its possible to come out a better team if they did trade him.

The flames badly need a top line RW and have quite a few good dmen. Most seem to say pens would have to give up a bit more for a D.Hamilton for Kessel trade but lets just say thats the trade. Reasons being are Hamilton being 24 and Phil being 31 and being young right handed dmen are always worth more then a right winger. Hamilton has been averaging 45 points per season over the last 4 and coming into his prime as well. Pens would save 1 mill cap space as well.

I think an offence even with that trade of Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Guentzel, Hornqvist should be able to carry the team. Thats still probably in the top 10 of teams of top 5 forwards without Kessel I think. (Pens have decent depth in Rust, Hagelin, Sprong, Sheahan which makes 9 forwards) And the defence looks very solid to me with Hamilton on it.

Now where I think you could come out as a huge winner is if the pens know that they could get another winger in free agency and opening up space by trading Sheary and Hunwick in a package deal. One of JVR, Kovalchuk, Neal, or 2 of the lesser guys like Nash, Marron, Grabner, Perron.
- pens4life-66

I know you are speculating but I find it funny how people think trades like Hamilton for Kessel would fly. Team tend to overvalue defense and the trend is looking for young controllable players. Trading Kessel will net you a lot of maybe's, hopes and futures. Even then, it is more a miss than a hit. If Pitt is prepared for a low firs rd, B elvel prospect or two, or a fringe NHL player, then they should do the deal

Imagine if Phil worked off ice as hard as Crosby or Mcdavid? If I had a wake up, score, sleep ability I'd probably do as little as he does too lol

Imagine if Phil worked off ice as hard as Crosby or Mcdavid? If I had a wake up, score, sleep ability I'd probably do as little as he does too lol
- BALUCHA

What evidence do you have to show Phil doesn't work hard?

Imagine if Phil worked off ice as hard as Crosby or Mcdavid? If I had a wake up, score, sleep ability I'd probably do as little as he does too lol
- BALUCHA

So he play every game over the last 8 seasons. During that time averages almost a point per game. and almost a point per game in the playoffs over the last 3 years. Keep doing what he is doing.

What evidence do you have to show Phil doesn't work hard?
- Feds91Stammer

His personal trainer (Gary Roberts) and teammates at the times have made comments on it many times. Said hes as powerful and explosive as it gets naturally but doesnt like to work out. Roberts said he can beat anybody in his power lifts and pulls the first time then after that hes last.

His personal trainer (Gary Roberts) and teammates at the times have made comments on it many times. Said hes as powerful and explosive as it gets naturally but doesnt like to work out. Roberts said he can beat anybody in his power lifts and pulls the first time then after that hes last.
- pens4life-66

Interesting. Do you have an article link?

Interesting. Do you have an article link?
- Feds91Stammer

https://www.thestar.com/s...alk-the-talk-feschuk.html

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/09/22/trainer-gary-roberts-pushes-phil-kessel-to-walk-the-talk-feschuk.html
- pens4life-66

So Phil isn't a gym rat. Not a big deal imo. Doesn't mean he isn't a rink rat.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/09/22/trainer-gary-roberts-pushes-phil-kessel-to-walk-the-talk-feschuk.html
- pens4life-66

Awesome. Feds anal retentiveness has turned on him.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/09/22/trainer-gary-roberts-pushes-phil-kessel-to-walk-the-talk-feschuk.html
- pens4life-66

Rick Tocchet has an article somewhere saying kind of the same things. Pretty much said he can walk into the gym and deadlift and pull as much as anybody in the NHL 1 or 2 times but after that hes done and to tired. An unnamed former leafs teammate said he refuses to run over 3kms for what thats worth. Rumors have it he can deadlift over 500 pounds which is insane! Id place a bet Sid cant do that and Sids known to have a crazy strong lower body. Doesnt exactly mean hes lazy or "out of shape" just feels what hes doing works best for him. Hes clearly a natural beast in the strength/power areas.

Awesome. Feds anal retentiveness has turned on him.
- MattStrat

Wut

Rick Tocchet has an article somewhere saying kind of the same things. Pretty much said he can walk into the gym and deadlift and pull as much as anybody in the NHL 1 or 2 times but after that hes done and to tired. An unnamed former leafs teammate said he refuses to run over 3kms for what thats worth. Rumors have it he can deadlift over 500 pounds which is insane! Id place a bet Sid cant do that and Sids known to have a crazy strong lower body. Doesnt exactly mean hes lazy or "out of shape" just feels what hes doing works best for him. Hes clearly a natural beast in the strength/power areas.
- pens4life-66

I mean I kind of tend to agree with Kessel. How does running 3kms improve hockey performance?

I would think HIIT would be the best for hockey.

Also I would expect a 200lb pro athlete to be able to deadlift 500lbs

So Phil isn't a gym rat. Not a big deal imo. Doesn't mean he isn't a rink rat.
- Feds91Stammer

Yeah I agree, and you can't have a shot like he does without working at it.

His personal trainer (Gary Roberts) and teammates at the times have made comments on it many times. Said hes as powerful and explosive as it gets naturally but doesnt like to work out. Roberts said he can beat anybody in his power lifts and pulls the first time then after that hes last.
- pens4life-66

A lot of powerful people try to only do a few lifts and rest as much as possible. It is an actual method to preserve Type 2 muscle fibers and make you more explosive. It kills endurance much like you are eluding to, but people who want to be explosive and activate the most type 2 muscle fibers then they are not really looking to be endurance athletes. Most consider them lazy, but they are usually can be the most explosive athletes in bursts (which is fine for hockey).

A lot of powerful people try to only do a few lifts and rest as much as possible. It is an actual method to preserve Type 2 muscle fibers and make you more explosive. It kills endurance much like you are eluding to, but people who want to be explosive and activate the most type 2 muscle fibers then they are not really looking to be endurance athletes. Most consider them lazy, but they are usually can be the most explosive athletes in bursts (which is fine for hockey).
- 123Kid

https://www.bardown.com/m...-son-s-birthday-1.1100496

Geno

At least you didn't draft Tom McCollum in the 1st round.
- Feds91Stammer

We all have our nightmares...

Like everything else, trading 1sts is a good or bad idea depending on what you get. Pens traded 2 1sts and a 2nd (or prospects picked there) for Kessel. Great trade. Moving one for one year of Reaves, bad idea. Trading first round prospect Joe Morrow for over the hill Brendan Morrow, who cares, they both were nearly worthless at that point.

I mean I kind of tend to agree with Kessel. How does running 3kms improve hockey performance?

I would think HIIT would be the best for hockey.

Also I would expect a 200lb pro athlete to be able to deadlift 500lbs
- Feds91Stammer

Roberts trains 35 NHL players, 25 AHL players and 20 CHL players. This was in 2016. Noted NHL players are Scheifele, Jordan Staal, Stamkos, Skinner, Mcdavid, Mike Smith, James Neal, Brett Connolly, Kessel etc.

"Roberts said there is only 4 players in here that can deadlift 500 pounds and named Stamkos, Mcdavid and Kessel as the only 3 NHL players to do it. Roberts is well known as one of the best hockey trainers and diet gurus around and hand picks his athletes who he thinks are the best of the best in the gym."

Stamkos mentioned he think Roberts could be training 500 players but that isnt who Roberts is as a person. Wanting to train them individually.

Anyways thats about 5% of players (NHL and AHL) who are hand picked from roberts as being very good in the gym that can deadlift 500 pounds.... VERY hard to do.

These are bad and not even consistently bad. Some are great for PIT. Some are terrible for PIT
- Feds91Stammer

Like I said just ideas of players from teams that could potentially swing a Kessel deal. I can't come up with 9 amazing trades in 2 minutes lol.

For a Kessel trade to work, imo, he return needs to be:

Younger, lesser NHL forward with upside to replace Phil + good D man -- Domi, Galchenyuk types that may need a change of scenery

Two really good but not elite players that fill needs aka LW, Middle D man, long term 3C-- Arvidsson, Haula, Rakell, Manson, Nino, Jenner, Bjugstad, McNabb types

One player straight up (or with a small plus from either side) of a different position or style --- Hamilton, Hanafin, Saad, Gallagher, Staal types

I don't think a futures package makes much sense unless GMJR was going insane and trying to get Tavares or something. We just don't need cap space that desperately. Sheary, Hagelin, Hunwick, etc can create enough space for gap filling FA signings.

Roberts trains 35 NHL players, 25 AHL players and 20 CHL players. This was in 2016. Noted NHL players are Scheifele, Jordan Staal, Stamkos, Skinner, Mcdavid, Mike Smith, James Neal, Brett Connolly, Kessel etc.

"Roberts said there is only 4 players in here that can deadlift 500 pounds and named Stamkos, Mcdavid and Kessel as the only 3 NHL players to do it. Roberts is well known as one of the best hockey trainers and diet gurus around and hand picks his athletes who he thinks are the best of the best in the gym."

Stamkos mentioned he think Roberts could be training 500 players but that isnt who Roberts is as a person. Wanting to train them individually.

Anyways thats about 5% of players (NHL and AHL) who are hand picked from roberts as being very good in the gym that can deadlift 500 pounds.... VERY hard to do.
- pens4life-66

Roberts is a cool dude. Met him at CAR training camp when I was younger.

Also I don't care what Stamkos says. He is a mental midget. I have also seen him out drinking with Ryan Malone at the end of the 2016-17 season when he was out with his knee injury.

Roberts is a cool dude. Met him at CAR training camp when I was younger.

Also I don't care what Stamkos says. He is a mental midget. I have also seen him out drinking with Ryan Malone at the end of the 2016-17 season when he was out with his knee injury.
- Feds91Stammer

What, a person was drinking beers while they were injured???

SCANDAL!!!