So if Florida wants to give us Trochek, or if NYI wants to give us Barzal, yeah, I'd be cool with a Phil trade. Otherwise... what's the phrase I'm looking for? To hell with this!
Sullivan is starting to make a trend of doghousing players he shouldn't be doghousing. That's usually the sign of a bad coach. I like Sully a lot, but my benefit of the doubt only lasts for so long. - Victoro311
Coaches have shelf lives. Hell, Jon Cooper is the 2nd longest tenured coach behind Q in Chicago, and having watched Coop in Tampa since he got here, I think Cooper sucks as a coach.
But when I say "team" I am talking about the collection of all 19-20 players on the ice, including that player. So I wouldn't say that is team was outplayed. - jmatchett383
I don't know, he may have a point. I'm going to the hockey hall of fame in a couple of months, I'll see if they have an asterisk next to last year's Pen's team on the cup, it might say something like "Pens were outshot in most games and only won because they were lucky, and their two goalies bailed them out".
FWIW, I think Kessel is easier to replace than Sullivan, not that I believe there is a real problem between Sully and Phil.
If you get rid of Sullivan, you lose one of the top 3 coaches in the NHL and get nothing in return.
If you get rid of Kessel, you get a package of players, picks and prospects plus additional cap space to replace Kessel in FA. I'd take Jordan Kyrou, a 1st rounder and Kovalchuk on a 2 year deal over Kessel any day.
I asked a few questions there and you didn't answer. My questions had everything to do with your original response, but okay. - j.boyd919
I was referring to your (bad) examples of luck. Your questions had nothing to do with any of that. Ask better questions, or better yet, don't ask rhetorical questions.
I was referring to your (bad) examples of luck. Your questions had nothing to do with any of that. Ask better questions, or better yet, don't ask rhetorical questions. - schwipp
FWIW, I think Kessel is easier to replace than Sullivan, not that I believe there is a real problem between Sully and Phil.
If you get rid of Sullivan, you lose one of the top 3 coaches in the NHL and get nothing in return.
If you get rid of Kessel, you get a package of players, picks and prospects plus additional cap space to replace Kessel in FA. I'd take Jordan Kyrou, a 1st rounder and Kovalchuk on a 2 year deal over Kessel any day. - MacPatty
FWIW, I think Kessel is easier to replace than Sullivan, not that I believe there is a real problem between Sully and Phil.
If you get rid of Sullivan, you lose one of the top 3 coaches in the NHL and get nothing in return.
If you get rid of Kessel, you get a package of players, picks and prospects plus additional cap space to replace Kessel in FA. I'd take Jordan Kyrou, a 1st rounder and Kovalchuk on a 2 year deal over Kessel any day. - MacPatty
Well, Jordan Kyrou should be able to start contributing at the NHL level right around when the Penguins' window is closing.
And while Kovalchuk isn't in the league, so I'm not sure how you're trading for him, I don't think you could get Kyrou and a 1st for Kessel, since I think St. Louis may want to take a step back.
Well, Jordan Kyrou should be able to start contributing at the NHL level right around when the Penguins' window is closing.
And while Kovalchuk isn't in the league, so I'm not sure how you're trading for him, I don't think you could get Kyrou and a 1st for Kessel, since I think St. Louis may want to take a step back. - jmatchett383
It's a random example but I'd say Kyrou (or a prospect of his like) will be ready for the NHL in 1-2 years, right in time to take over for Kovalchuk (free agent) retiring.
I think Sid and Geno have at least 5 more years of being top 10 centers in the league.
The question now is, would you rather go all in for 2 more years and then risk having nothing in the pipeline and going back to a non playoff team?
Or do you hedge a bit and move guys like Kessel and Letang (over the next few years) for young players who can come in and contribute in short order to stay competitive for a long period of time?
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
Jun 1 @ 11:12 AM ET
It's a random example but I'd say Kyrou (or a prospect of his like) will be ready for the NHL in 1-2 years, right in time to take over for Kovalchuk (free agent) retiring.
I think Sid and Geno have at least 5 more years of being top 10 centers in the league.
The question now is, would you rather go all in for 2 more years and then risk having nothing in the pipeline and going back to a non playoff team?
Or do you hedge a bit and move guys like Kessel and Letang (over the next few years) for young players who can come in and contribute in short order to stay competitive for a long period of time? - MacPatty
It's a random example but I'd say Kyrou (or a prospect of his like) will be ready for the NHL in 1-2 years, right in time to take over for Kovalchuk (free agent) retiring.
I think Sid and Geno have at least 5 more years of being top 10 centers in the league.
The question now is, would you rather go all in for 2 more years and then risk having nothing in the pipeline and going back to a non playoff team?
Or do you hedge a bit and move guys like Kessel and Letang (over the next few years) for young players who can come in and contribute in short order to stay competitive for a long period of time? - MacPatty
The way our team is constructed and our cap situation dictates we will be elite level contenders for 3 more years and be secondary contenders for a little while after that as guys begin to decline. Our core is intact at a discounted rate until 2022 and all of our important non-core players are either locked up longish term or are cost controlled.
All trading guys like Kessel and Letang will do is shave off years from being prime contenders in the hopes that maybe we get a prospect that ends up being a super star and avoid the post-Crosby/Malkin hangover. The chances of that happening are super slim. Malkin's contract is up in four years. We shouldn't be looking to make any move who's prime impact will happen around the end of Geno's contract, because we have no idea what will happen when Geno comes off the book.
The way our team is constructed and our cap situation dictates we will be elite level contenders for 3 more years and be secondary contenders for a little while after that as guys begin to decline. Our core is intact at a discounted rate until 2022 and all of our important non-core players are either locked up longish term or are cost controlled.
All trading guys like Kessel and Letang will do is shave off years from being prime contenders in the hopes that maybe we get a prospect that ends up being a super star and avoid the post-Crosby/Malkin hangover. The chances of that happening are super slim. Malkin's contract is up in four years. We shouldn't be looking to make any move who's prime impact will happen around the end of Geno's contract, because we have no idea what will happen when Geno comes off the book. - Victoro311
The way our team is constructed and our cap situation dictates we will be elite level contenders for 3 more years and be secondary contenders for a little while after that as guys begin to decline. Our core is intact at a discounted rate until 2022 and all of our important non-core players are either locked up longish term or are cost controlled.
All trading guys like Kessel and Letang will do is shave off years from being prime contenders in the hopes that maybe we get a prospect that ends up being a super star and avoid the post-Crosby/Malkin hangover. The chances of that happening are super slim. Malkin's contract is up in four years. We shouldn't be looking to make any move who's prime impact will happen around the end of Geno's contract, because we have no idea what will happen when Geno comes off the book. - Victoro311
Exactly. Crosby and Malkin will continue to be prime impact players, but after another 3-4 years, they won't be top-5 point getters. They'll still be the core pieces, along with Guentzel and Murray, but unless they land another generational talent and/or can completely rebuild a top-5 defense, they'll have some rough times ahead. They'll probably make the playoffs regularly, but deep runs will be fewer and farther between.
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
Jun 1 @ 11:24 AM ET
The way our team is constructed and our cap situation dictates we will be elite level contenders for 3 more years and be secondary contenders for a little while after that as guys begin to decline. Our core is intact at a discounted rate until 2022 and all of our important non-core players are either locked up longish term or are cost controlled.
All trading guys like Kessel and Letang will do is shave off years from being prime contenders in the hopes that maybe we get a prospect that ends up being a super star and avoid the post-Crosby/Malkin hangover. The chances of that happening are super slim. Malkin's contract is up in four years. We shouldn't be looking to make any move who's prime impact will happen around the end of Geno's contract, because we have no idea what will happen when Geno comes off the book. - Victoro311
They could continue being contenders if they stop trading 1sts and just draft the most skilled euro in the 1st.
You can find Pastarnak, Burakovksy, Kuznetsov, Tolvanen, etc. there
They could continue being contenders if they are gifted generational talents by the NHL to prevent the team from leaving due to poor revenue from a dissatisfied fanbase - Feds91Stammer
I have to agree with RW. Act like grown ups and sort this poop out. I don't want Phil gone.
As for Sully I think winning B2B cups may have an influence on how he treats and coaches his players. He also seemed unable to correct a season long defensive issue with odd man rushes that was ultimately their undoing. The lack of adjustment to the Caps style was also concerning and Bylsma-esque.
He does deserve the benefit of the doubt right now though I think.
If there was a real rift between he and Phil I don't see why he would continually give Phil top PP minutes when he was clearly struggling.
Kessel should have won MVP two years ago in the playoffs. Was in consideration last year. Would have beaten Washington if Sully did not start overplaying his lines.
All Kessel does is play (ironman), get points, score goals, has turned into a nasty set up guy.
So his defense is not the best, so he does not play a "200 foot game" but are you paying him for that?
and Still on 30 years of age. He still has at least 3-4 years of high production left in him. Meaning 30 goals and anywhere from 75-85 points per year.
For as much talk about not being able to "win" a Kessel trade I think its possible to come out a better team if they did trade him.
The flames badly need a top line RW and have quite a few good dmen. Most seem to say pens would have to give up a bit more for a D.Hamilton for Kessel trade but lets just say thats the trade. Reasons being are Hamilton being 24 and Phil being 31 and being young right handed dmen are always worth more then a right winger. Hamilton has been averaging 45 points per season over the last 4 and coming into his prime as well. Pens would save 1 mill cap space as well.
I think an offence even with that trade of Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Guentzel, Hornqvist should be able to carry the team. Thats still probably in the top 10 of teams of top 5 forwards without Kessel I think. (Pens have decent depth in Rust, Hagelin, Sprong, Sheahan which makes 9 forwards) And the defence looks very solid to me with Hamilton on it.
Now where I think you could come out as a huge winner is if the pens know that they could get another winger in free agency and opening up space by trading Sheary and Hunwick in a package deal. One of JVR, Kovalchuk, Neal, or 2 of the lesser guys like Nash, Marron, Grabner, Perron.
They could continue being contenders if they stop trading 1sts and just draft the most skilled euro in the 1st.
You can find Pastarnak, Burakovksy, Kuznetsov, Tolvanen, etc. there - Feds91Stammer
They could also keep drafting guys like Bennett, Pouliot, and Morrow.
Chances are if they traded away less picks some would have become pretty good players while others would be bust but none if them would have helped them win those 2 Cups or changed them losing this year.
