- gerbe75pts

you're behind, as usual

dunno if you're referring to me but I've regularly said it is easier(not easy, especially not elite ones) to find wingers than d-men.

If Mittelstadt is as good as they say he is, he and Eichel won't need too many high end wingers.
- Sabresfan-365

So then we are in better shape than ppl think and don’t necessarily NEED to trade for one

Doesn’t what i bolded contradict what you’re saying about making this big trade to improve?
I’m lost
Not trying to be a d!ck...
u just aren’t making any sense at all

A lot of hopes and dreams here. To say Mitts is fantastic after a few games, Dahlin is the real deal before stepping on NHL ice is what you HOPE, not facts. We are as bad as he thinks, and have been for 5 years. We have the potential to get get much better. But we still don't know yet/
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

Keller and Boeser turned 5 game additions into big years this year. How did McAvoy look this year ? This is a young mans game. We have two of the best young players in the world. Sit back and enjoy the show. Barzal had 85 points this year facing good matchups. Expect Mittelstadt to give you somewhere between 60-65.

That's probably a fair criticism to some degree. I still think the players you want traded 90, 23, 55, will be better than they have been when put in a position to succeed with better talent around them.
- jcragcrumple

the argument would be that they were paid to be put in this position. If they need to be dropped one slot, it's a huge disparity in actual value vs cap hit. The GAR chart homie posted where ROR was ranked high, that heavily favourites players with excess ice time, faceoffs and PIM ratio.

The last one probably won't change (although certainly up for debate) but if you take a chunk out of ROR's ice time (and offensive ice time at that) you're betting on production going up because Quality of competition has gone down.

The problem with that is the QOC differences over a full year aren't nearly big enough to suggest that. And some of the underlying factors/stats don't suggest that either.

Things like Entries, exits, shot assists aka build up before scoring opportunities are good indicators of someone's overall impact on the game. If someone is doing all of these well and the points are still down, that points to the team around him not really pulling their weight.

ROR doesn't show well with those stats. In a 15 game sample size, he accumulated fewer clean zone entries than Jordan Nolan.

Avs were worse, and made the playoffs this year. We lost 20 games by 1 goal. We are not bad as you think. Eichel has another level, Mittelstadt is fantastic, and Dahlin is the real deal. The last two aforementioned players bump everyone down a notch making the team as a whole better as well. How many teams have a 60 point 3rd line Centre like ROR (and yes I expect Mittelstadt to be the 2nd line Centre by 20 games into the season)
- Pegullaville

Thats not a lot. From last year.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/...spring-playoffs-1.4121446

Quote from the article "Boucher's group was just above average with 40 games decided by a goal during the regular season. Detroit led the league with 45."

So then we are in better shape than ppl think and don’t necessarily NEED to trade for one

Doesn’t what i bolded contradict what you’re saying about making this big trade to improve?
I’m lost
Not trying to be a d!ck...
u just aren’t making any sense at all
- jdfitz77

Im not saying we need to trade for an elite winger, i was referencing Pachla's point on the winger debate back from all the kane talk. Gotta read the conversation and context, Richard or no Richard.

oh my god okay, last time.

"obviously if there's a better deal available where we take less salary i would do that. but if there isn't, that deal still makes some sense, maybe not something you specifically like but if the objective is flexibility, it makes sense"
- Sabresfan-365

If we are taking a Cap dump, and helping a team like Pitt...
we better be getting more than “flexibility” for 1 season
Big freaking whoop

Avs were worse, and made the playoffs this year. We lost 20 games by 1 goal. We are not bad as you think. Eichel has another level, Mittelstadt is fantastic, and Dahlin is the real deal. The last two aforementioned players bump everyone down a notch making the team as a whole better as well. How many teams have a 60 point 3rd line Centre like ROR (and yes I expect Mittelstadt to be the 2nd line Centre by 20 games into the season)
- Pegullaville

This is being severely overstated and overused

Most NHL games end in 1 goal games (or 2 with an empty netter)

If we are taking a Cap dump, and helping a team like Pitt...
we better be getting more than “flexibility” for 1 season
Big freaking whoop
- jdfitz77

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Not every post that doesn't fall in line with your thinking automatically falls into the "doesn't make sense pile"

This is being severely overstated and overused

Most NHL games end in 1 goal games (or 2 with an empty netter)
- Stripes77

Whatever helps people feel good about a 31st place team

A third line of Hagelin-ROR-Reinhart would be a good line. Tell me who in free agency we are going to sign ? And what other winger we can acquire for Girgensons that can play worth a crap ? We’d be lucky to get a 4th round pick for Girgensons.
- Pegullaville

Idk that Girgs isn’t better than Hagelin if u played him next to Malkin all year

Hagelin is just a guy
10goals last year
6 the year before

He’s not doing anything to help us really

Unless he’s some magical leader who can give a speech that will “change the culture”
Blah blah blah

you're behind, as usual


- Michael Pachla

Good one

Whatever helps people feel good about a 31st place team
- Sabresfan-365

We are so close though! We only needed one more win a month!

the argument would be that they were paid to be put in this position. If they need to be dropped one slot, it's a huge disparity in actual value vs cap hit. The GAR chart homie posted where ROR was ranked high, that heavily favourites players with excess ice time, faceoffs and PIM ratio.

The last one probably won't change (although certainly up for debate) but if you take a chunk out of ROR's ice time (and offensive ice time at that) you're betting on production going up because Quality of competition has gone down.

The problem with that is the QOC differences over a full year aren't nearly big enough to suggest that. And some of the underlying factors/stats don't suggest that either.

Things like Entries, exits, shot assists aka build up before scoring opportunities are good indicators of someone's overall impact on the game. If someone is doing all of these well and the points are still down, that points to the team around him not really pulling their weight.

ROR doesn't show well with those stats. In a 15 game sample size, he accumulated fewer clean zone entries than Jordan Nolan.
- Sabresfan-365

I understand what you're saying, and I think trading ror has some validity as an idea, but my own personal view is that the Sabres should put salary aside in his case and keep him because he is a good player.

There is money in other places - the 4 I reference often - ROR sliding down the depth chart, or moving up to wing can be a good thing for us, especially as the capp goes up and his % of the cap goes down.

My personal opinion is that trading ROR will put us back on the carousel of futures that has no end, and that he can be a big part of winning. I view Risto the same way. He isn't a #1, but trading him gets us nowhere imo.

I sort of dodged your stats, mostly because I don't know them very well. I think we're just coming at this from 2 different perspectives.

Im not saying we need to trade for an elite winger, i was referencing Pachla's point on the winger debate back from all the kane talk. Gotta read the conversation and context, Richard or no Richard.
- Sabresfan-365

Well u originally replied to me asking how we get better without trading ROR, Sam or Risto

So if not for a winger...
where is it that we desperately need to improve through trade in your opinion?

We are so close though! We only needed one more win a month!
- ImThatGuy

often reminds me of this

https://youtu.be/Xvv4JB3rXsA?t=314

you're behind, as usual


- Michael Pachla

😂 lol

Well u originally replied to me asking how we get better without trading ROR, Sam or Risto

So if not for a winger...
where is it that we desperately need to improve through trade in your opinion?
- jdfitz77

we need defencemen who can actually play defence, not the defence from 2002, modern day d-men. Right now our best guys at that are Nelson and Dahlin, the sophomore and rookie.

Id also like to see more puck movement (aka moving the needle) from the 2C position. I suspect the zone exits will be much better this year from an improved blue line but need your centres to do the second half of that job. Someone who can gain the blue line and establish controlled offensive zone time instead of dump and chase on most possessions.

Above all else, from a team perspective, they need guys that have the passing or skating ability to get it done at even strength. We've seen the impact a high end power play has, we were still 6th last that year. Majority of the game is played at even strength and we need guys who can create with consistency at the hardest game states, not just when the defence is giving you the blue line and zone time.

This is being severely overstated and overused

Most NHL games end in 1 goal games (or 2 with an empty netter)
- Stripes77

The thing with that is. This team had 25 Wins all season.

Twenty freaking five.

Say they pick up 50% of those one goals games next year. They are still a sub .500 club.

It's asinine to think this team is anything but bad.

the lowest # of goals scored.
the worst goal differential in the NHL.

I understand what you're saying, and I think trading ror has some validity as an idea, but my own personal view is that the Sabres should put salary aside in his case and keep him because he is a good player.

There is money in other places - the 4 I reference often - ROR sliding down the depth chart, or moving up to wing can be a good thing for us, especially as the capp goes up and his % of the cap goes down.

My personal opinion is that trading ROR will put us back on the carousel of futures that has no end, and that he can be a big part of winning. I view Risto the same way. He isn't a #1, but trading him gets us nowhere imo.

I sort of dodged your stats, mostly because I don't know them very well. I think we're just coming at this from 2 different perspectives.
- jcragcrumple

No worries, i get where you're coming from too.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Not every post that doesn't fall in line with your thinking automatically falls into the "doesn't make sense pile"
- Sabresfan-365

And just bc u think it’s a good idea doesn’t mean it is
Works both ways

It’s totally reasonable for me to want more than flexibility if we are taking on a Cap dump

What you’re saying (basically) is trade Ennis for Pommer
I’m saying...
we’ll take Pommer, but we want Scandella too

So yeah...
Hagelin + Sheary?
for a cheaper than normal price makes sense

Taking a Cap dump for 3mil in Cap room...
which is actually more like 1mil
Bc the player we put in Bogo’s spot
And the player who replaces Hagelin after 1 year
Need to be accounted for

Sorry dude
1-1.5mil in Cap room?
It’s better than nothing i guess
But it’s still not a deal that really does anything at all for us
Thus...
“Makes no sense”

And just bc u think it’s a good idea doesn’t mean it is
Works both ways

It’s totally reasonable for me to want more than flexibility if we are taking on a Cap dump

What you’re saying (basically) is trade Ennis for Pommer
I’m saying...
we’ll take Pommer, but we want Scandella too

So yeah...
Hagelin + Sheary?
for a cheaper than normal price makes sense

Taking a Cap dump for 3mil in Cap room...
which is actually more like 1mil
Bc the player we put in Bogo’s spot
And the player who replaces Hagelin after 1 year
Need to be accounted for

Sorry dude
1-1.5mil in Cap room?
It’s better than nothing i guess
But it’s still not a deal that really does anything at all for us
Thus...
“Makes no sense”
- jdfitz77

That's gerbe level math. it's 3.1 mil the following year. hagelin has one year left, bogo has two.

The whole point in having 3.1 mil in space is to find someone better than bogo anyways. I don't want the space for the sake of having space, I'd want it to have the opportunity to do what you just said, replace bogo.

Edit: if you go back to the last blog. I didn't even suggest that it was necessarily a good idea, just an idea worth considering.

Good grief what is wrong with you?

we need defencemen who can actually play defence, not the defence from 2002, modern day d-men. Right now our best guys at that are Nelson and Dahlin, the sophomore and rookie.

Id also like to see more puck movement (aka moving the needle) from the 2C position. I suspect the zone exits will be much better this year from an improved blue line but need your centres to do the second half of that job. Someone who can gain the blue line and establish controlled offensive zone time instead of dump and chase on most possessions.

Above all else, from a team perspective, they need guys that have the passing or skating ability to get it done at even strength. We've seen the impact a high end power play has, we were still 6th last that year. Majority of the game is played at even strength and we need guys who can create with consistency at the hardest game states, not just when the defence is giving you the blue line and zone time.
- Sabresfan-365

Dahlin, Guhle, Nelson & Mittelstadt don’t do what you’re saying?

Are u just specifically talking about NEXT year
Bc ok... we might not see these guys “move the needle” right away

Trading O’Reilly for picks isn’t helping us get better any time soon either (if ever)

You’re on record saying u don’t think he can get back a core piece, right?

Michael Pachla: On the Vegas Golden Knights
- Michael Pachla

I wonder if anybody put a grand on those odds at the beginning of the season wish I did

if you read the other posts, it makes sense. gives you flexibility the year after. If bogo only gets you a 6th last year, he gets you nothing this year.
- Sabresfan-365

When was that offer on the table?