#26 RH defenseman

A bit better than “barely a 4th” sir

A better analysis (according to them) would be to say “barely a top pair”

That sounds more accurate to me

You seem to be a bit harsh
And when u pound on these guys over & over & over...
well then it just looks like you’re hating on these guys to the point where it’s illogical
- jdfitz77

So Tyler Myers is better than Ristolainen?

I think this must be it: https://www.corsicahockey...om/nhl/nhl-player-ratings

EDIT: To include correct URL
- JetpackJesus

Oddly, Corsica 2.0, which is where I was looking originally, is located at http://corsica.hockey/ (it seems mostly broken), but those ratings are at https://www.corsicahockey.com/, which is apparently in Beta.

I am guessing they're affiliated because if you click on Team Stats from the drop down menu in the top bar of corsica.hockey, it takes you to coriscahockey.com, and then there are options at the second one that actually seem to work. But I really can't tell.

There's also an explanation of their player ratings here.

Robin Lehner is the 56th ranked goalie.

Alright, now I’m on board

Good news. According to this O’Reilly is better than Tavares
- sbroads24

Tavares #24C
*I’m assuming bc he finished the season pretty poorly- if there were mid season rankings, i bet Tavares would’ve been top10

Barzal #28, fwiw

Robin Lehner is the 56th ranked goalie.

Alright, now I’m on board
- sbroads24

Hahahaha

So Tyler Myers is better than Ristolainen?
- sbroads24

Hence my opinion that “analytics doesn’t tell the WHOLE story”

I never said they weren’t useful

And as u have said to me countless times,
“there will be outliers”

Also...
u gotta assume that Myers numbers benefit form being on the 3rd pair on a good team

I wonder if they adjust in some way for that?
U know more about these analytics than i do

Tavares #24C
*I’m assuming bc he finished the season pretty poorly- if there were mid season rankings, i bet Tavares would’ve been top10

Barzal #28, fwiw
- jdfitz77

Jason Pominville in the average 2nd line RW range....interesting

Hence my opinion that “analytics doesn’t tell the WHOLE story”

I never said they weren’t useful

And as u have said to me countless times,
“there will be outliers”
- jdfitz77

They don’t.

I truly believe that if we had 4 1st liners and a top pair D man for this season, there’s no way we end up 31st

Jason Pominville in the average 2nd line RW range....interesting
- sbroads24

Son of a....
hahahahaha

Must be one of those “outliers” you’re talking about!

Seriously though...
i know u use Analytics a lot
So what is it in the numbers that makes them like O’Reilly that u don’t like?
U point out his 5v5 scoring
So there must be a decent amount of other stats that boost him up to the ranking they have

Any idea what it is they’re basing it on?
I really would’ve thought their rankings to be more on par with your opinion than mine

That’s why i posted it
Not to start a fight...
Bc i was sincerely surprised based on the stuff you’ve posted

Son of a....
hahahahaha

Must be one of those “outliers” you’re talking about!

Seriously though...
i know u use Analytics a lot
So what is it in the numbers that makes them like O’Reilly that u don’t like?
U point out his 5v5 scoring
So there must be a decent amount of other stats that boost him up to the ranking they have

Any idea what it is they’re basing it on?
I really would’ve thought their rankings to be more on par with your opinion than mine

That’s why i posted it
Not to start a fight...
Bc i was sincerely surprised based on the stuff you’ve posted
- jdfitz77

I just read the explanation of them.

They use a “game score” statistic, that to be honest I don’t know a ton about.

It basically breaks down an entire games worth of stats into one number that’s similar to a WAR rating.

It’s definitely interesting, especially Ristolainen’s ranking, which I’m shocked is that good.

But I know analytics love O’Reilly. They IMO, over rate his defensive play and under rate his lack of offense

Bogo
Blow-you
Tennyson
Fedun
Falk

I'll take McCabe ahead of all of them.
- SabreWest

so the 2 worst with the big club. 2 ahl guys and a ufa

got it

I was thinking over everyone but dahlin and nelson

Good news. According to this O’Reilly is better than Tavares
- sbroads24

following

Oddly, Corsica 2.0, which is where I was looking originally, is located at http://corsica.hockey/ (it seems mostly broken), but those ratings are at https://www.corsicahockey.com/, which is apparently in Beta.

I am guessing they're affiliated because if you click on Team Stats from the drop down menu in the top bar of corsica.hockey, it takes you to coriscahockey.com, and then there are options at the second one that actually seem to work. But I really can't tell.

There's also an explanation of their player ratings here.
- JetpackJesus

That was a really interesting read
In particular, how they recognize that “Analytics can’t tell the whole story” to paraphrase into words i constantly use

These new-age stats each individually represent vast improvements over mainstream norms, but even they are prone to blind spots. Inevitably, metrics developed by different people using different methods will each have their own unique strengths and weaknesses

.

And then how they attempt to use these different stats to come up with some accurate real world rankings

There’s still stuff i disagree with in their ranks...
but i at least appreciate & understand the approach they took

Again... interesting read

I just read the explanation of them.

They use a “game score” statistic, that to be honest I don’t know a ton about.

It basically breaks down an entire games worth of stats into one number that’s similar to a WAR rating.

It’s definitely interesting, especially Ristolainen’s ranking, which I’m shocked is that good.

But I know analytics love O’Reilly. They IMO, over rate his defensive play and under rate his lack of offense
- sbroads24

I appreciate how in their explanation they basically say that “Analytics doesn’t tell the whole story”

I was just really surprised overall that their ranks seem closer to my opinion,
which i generally gather from the “eye test”
VS your opinion,
where it seems u use analytics a lot

Idk that I’d rank O’Reilly 23rd
But i do think at the very least it goes to show that you’re way too hard on him

following
- homiedclown

For the record...
while i am an ROR supporter,
I don’t think he’s better than Tavares

I’m assuming Tavares slipped in the rankings bc he wasn’t too good the last quarter of the season

I appreciate how in their explanation they basically say that “Analytics doesn’t tell the whole story”

I was just really surprised overall that their ranks seem closer to my opinion,
which i generally gather from the “eye test”
VS your opinion,
where it seems u use analytics a lot

Idk that I’d rank O’Reilly 23rd
But i do think at the very least it goes to show that you’re way too hard on him
- jdfitz77

Probably a little, but I still stand by my opinion that he should be moved.

I think he’s a valuable player. I’ve never said he sucks. But he doesn’t drive enough offense to be your second best forward, and that’s how he paid/played.

I also think the league is trending towards speed and puck carrying. He isn’t great in either area. He’s good down low and in the corners.

For the record...
while i am an ROR supporter,
I don’t think he’s better than Tavares

I’m assuming Tavares slipped in the rankings bc he wasn’t too good the last quarter of the season
- jdfitz77

I don't think JT fits the system botts wants

Probably a little, but I still stand by my opinion that he should be moved.

I think he’s a valuable player. I’ve never said he sucks. But he doesn’t drive enough offense to be your second best forward, and that’s how he paid/played.

I also think the league is trending towards speed and puck carrying. He isn’t great in either area. He’s good down low and in the corners.
- sbroads24

I got nothing to add

Probably a little, but I still stand by my opinion that he should be moved.

I think he’s a valuable player. I’ve never said he sucks. But he doesn’t drive enough offense to be your second best forward, and that’s how he paid/played.

I also think the league is trending towards speed and puck carrying. He isn’t great in either area. He’s good down low and in the corners.
- sbroads24

While a lot of that’s probably fair overall,
As far as the bolded goes...

idk that i disagree,
but u still see a lot of goals (esp in the playoffs) scored in the dirty areas down low & as a result of work along the boards & in the corners

As for your general opinion on ROR,
u seem to base that on 5v5 and ignore any other stats that show him favorably

He’s never gonna be the kind of player who measures up offensively with guys like Kucherov, etc

Now that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be moved...
but basically calling him a 3rd liner is way too harsh man

I don't think JT fits the system botts wants
- homiedclown

He’s certainly not considered a “fast” skater

While a lot of that’s probably fair overall,
As far as the bolded goes...

idk that i disagree,
but u still see a lot of goals (esp in the playoffs) scored in the dirty areas down low & as a result of work along the boards & in the corners

As for your general opinion on ROR,
u seem to base that on 5v5 and ignore any other stats that show him favorably

He’s never gonna be the kind of player who measures up offensively with guys like Kucherov, etc

Now that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be moved...
but basically calling him a 3rd liner is way too harsh man
- jdfitz77

https://www.foxsports.com...team=0&qual=0&sortOrder=0

look at who is 16th

He’s certainly not considered a “fast” skater
- jdfitz77

trade ror to the wings for helm and athanasiou


the speed coming back

While a lot of that’s probably fair overall,
As far as the bolded goes...

idk that i disagree,
but u still see a lot of goals (esp in the playoffs) scored in the dirty areas down low & as a result of work along the boards & in the corners

As for your general opinion on ROR,
u seem to base that on 5v5 and ignore any other stats that show him favorably

He’s never gonna be the kind of player who measures up offensively with guys like Kucherov, etc

Now that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be moved...
but basically calling him a 3rd liner is way too harsh man
- jdfitz77

I don’t think he’s a 3rd liner. I think he’s a top 6 player, who scores 5 on 5 like a 3rd liner. He brings value defensively, but if he was to be a cup winning top 6 Center, he needs some serious talent around him, or he’s probably in a lesser role as a 3C on a stacked team.

It all depends I guess. All I know is we need to have a few guys better than him offensively around Eichel

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?season=2017&category=ICE+TIME&group=1&sort=13&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=0&sortOrder=0

look at who is 16th
- homiedclown

Ok... but what’s your point?

Bc...
1) i LIKE Mittelstadt
I’ve only ever said ppl shouldn’t expect him to be a ppg player right away
2) very small sample size
3) not really a good stat to base anything
Just look at some of the names on the list

I don’t think he’s a 3rd liner. I think he’s a top 6 player, who scores 5 on 5 like a 3rd liner. He brings value defensively, but if he was to be a cup winning top 6 Center, he needs some serious talent around him, or he’s probably in a lesser role as a 3C on a stacked team.

It all depends I guess. All I know is we need to have a few guys better than him offensively around Eichel
- sbroads24

we got better production from e rod

https://www.foxsports.com...&category=ICE+TIME&time=0