Twenty years ago, that hit is celebrated left and right. I appreciate what the NHL is doing for head injuries (I've recieved seven concussions) but until the league says "zero head-shots" that hit should not warrant suspension.

Unless checking is removed from hockey this stuff will still happen.

- McCarty on Lemieux
- Thornton on Orpik
- Stevens on Lindros
- Kasparaitis on Lindros
- (frank) Lindros

What made this game great was how much we had to go thourgh to win. It was a medal in itself! Ass-beatings and line brawls were a thing, and at the time a good thing.

Again, I'm a Pens fan. But I'm not a wimp.
- CB

McCarty on Lemieux was payback for the hit on Draper, which is more along the lines of the hits on Lindros and the recent Wilson hits. McCarty on Lemieux, and the ensuing line brawl, were full on fights, not players cheap shotting player's heads.

Also, as a Flyers' fan, I don't have an issue with the hits on Lindros because he never learned to skate with his head up since he always dominated at lower levels, and no one could match him physically. Obviously, seeing my avatar, I'm not happy about them, and I hate Scott Stevens for ruining part of my childhood, but there's nothing about those hits that didn't happen fairly often back then.

- Feds91Stammer

You used to say some half intelligent thoughtful stuff here and there...now you're just reduced down to immature crap.

Did you suffer a concussion Feds?

Definitely part of it.

1. faster, bigger, stronger athletes
2. body armor, pads nowadays are essentially body armor vs what they were back in the day
3. no two line pass gives a lot more speed in the neutral zone
4. better understanding of brain injuries
5. the nhl "kind of" caring about the issue with spotters/etc.
6. social media - hits are much easier to see within seconds via twitter etc.


You also have to factor in that many players hid their injuries to continue playing (and probably still do). But I don't believe there are more concussions in hockey today than back then. I would imagine the rate is about the same. It's not like the league is filled with scumbags, there's only a handful of them that lack respect.

I bet if the equipment wasn't hard plastic, and the players delivering the hits actually felt them too, you wouldn't see as many giant hits.



http://braininjurycanada...._Concussion_CMAJ_2011.pdf

Here's a study on concussions from lke 1997-2004. I know it's not recent, but I think it shows peaks and valleys in those years that it wasn't really climbing or falling.
- j.boyd919

Thats a pretty solid post. Very interesting chart. Yeah, part of it is more awareness now and people coming forth with it and not hiding it. We have our boy Sid to thank for all of that, even though what brought it to the forefront stripped away years of his prime.

Thats a pretty solid post. Very interesting chart. Yeah, part of it is more awareness now and people coming forth with it and not hiding it. We have our boy Sid to thank for all of that, even though what brought it to the forefront stripped away years of his prime.
- MattStrat

I am definitely curious to see where those charts would be in recent years, say the last 5 to compare... but I think given the studies of NFL CTE's and the stuff that happened with Sid, Savard, Junior Seau, etc. there is definitely more of an awareness to traumatic brain injuries.

I love a good body check, and fight, and what not... I feel there is a bit of... you step on the ice, you know the possibilities, much like fighting in MMA, but there are absolutely things that can be done to get unnecessary hits out of the game. The line at which these hits are deemed unnecessary is kind of grey, and that needs to be defined more clearly, and enforced better. That's really the problem with the NHL. Inconsistency plagues this league to a laughable level in multiple areas. I don't think it's as simple as pussifying hockey and lack of respect, because there are always going to be a handful of clowns in the league, it's a multi-layered issue, much like any issue in the world.

I am definitely curious to see where those charts would be in recent years, say the last 5 to compare... but I think given the studies of NFL CTE's and the stuff that happened with Sid, Savard, Junior Seau, etc. there is definitely more of an awareness to traumatic brain injuries.

I love a good body check, and fight, and what not... I feel there is a bit of... you step on the ice, you know the possibilities, much like fighting in MMA, but there are absolutely things that can be done to get unnecessary hits out of the game. The line at which these hits are deemed unnecessary is kind of grey, and that needs to be defined more clearly, and enforced better. That's really the problem with the NHL. Inconsistency plagues this league to a laughable level in multiple areas. I don't think it's as simple as pussifying hockey and lack of respect, because there are always going to be a handful of clowns in the league, it's a multi-layered issue, much like any issue in the world.
- j.boyd919

The game is too fast for these hits to not happen. It's checking or no checking if they seriously want to get rid of these hits.
Wilson, up until he was 16-17, was told that was a good hit in the NHL. Maybe once we see the crop of kids that have been ingrained since peewee to avoid head contact will we see a dramatic "step" towards less devastating hits.

The game is too fast for these hits to not happen. It's checking or no checking if they seriously want to get rid of these hits.
Wilson, up until he was 16-17, was told that was a good hit in the NHL. Maybe once we see the crop of kids that have been ingrained since peewee to avoid head contact will we see a dramatic "step" towards less devastating hits.
- Blackstrom2

I wonder what the concussion rates are like in juniors/college levels today.

EDIT:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/11/A39.3

http://pediatrics.aappubl...2016/01/07/peds.2015-1633

A few studies on concussions and youth hockey.

I wonder what the concussion rates are like in juniors/college levels today.
- j.boyd919

Some of these kids/teens should be about the age to start hitting. I'm sure it's a much different lesson than what they taught Stevens.

Some of these kids/teens should be about the age to start hitting. I'm sure it's a much different lesson than what they taught Stevens.
- Blackstrom2

There are still some dinosaurs in charge of the NHL that need to be phased out too. I think a good group of the GMs understand the game is evolving, but there are some that are just too stubborn (and I'm not referring to analytics in anyway).

There are still some dinosaurs in charge of the NHL that need to be phased out too. I think a good group of the GMs understand the game is evolving, but there are some that are just too stubborn (and I'm not referring to analytics in anyway).
- j.boyd919

I know USAH has dramatically shifted its' views on how to hit and what constitutes a good hit. Really, we are only 6 years into the "post-no head hit" era, so I think it just needs time. I mean, we're talking about 100 years of the sport having a violent history and saying that was okay. Stevens is still celebrated for predatory hits because it was legal at the time. It's going to take time for the culture and players to change.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/575688002?__twitter_impression=true

Read that this morning from Kevin Allen.

We all watch the same videos in these situations, and none of us agrees on what we saw happen or what the league’s reaction should be.

Maybe that’s part of the problem.

The illegal check to the head rule, as it is written now, provides a gray area in which heavy hitters like Wilson can operate.

He goes on to say they should add an automatic penalty if contact is made with the head, with the refs allowed to call a major and misconduct if they think it's intentional. I'd call that a good step, but think they need to be tougher as the refs rarely call it intentional. Players will adjust if the penalties get stiffer, but a minor won't deter them.
- Tojo.

I was going to write almost the same thing last night. I think the rule is deliberately written to be vague. It allows for different degree's of interpretation and opinion. Rules that allow for a significant span of interpretation are always going to be controversial.

Here's the problem, Wilson has 4 hits to the head during a short span of these playoffs. At some point you lose the benefit of the doubt.

There are still some dinosaurs in charge of the NHL that need to be phased out too. I think a good group of the GMs understand the game is evolving, but there are some that are just too stubborn (and I'm not referring to analytics in anyway).
- j.boyd919

The only way they'll get phased out is when the NHL loses an absurd amount of money via a class action lawsuit. This will happen. The days of saying "you knew what you were getting into" are gone.

I disagree that the game will lose physicality/hitting if a headshot becomes an automatic penalty. Players adapt. They always do. I can watch a weeks worth of games and not see a guy get blasted in the head like Wilson has carelessly done 4 times in these playoffs.

I am definitely curious to see where those charts would be in recent years, say the last 5 to compare... but I think given the studies of NFL CTE's and the stuff that happened with Sid, Savard, Junior Seau, etc. there is definitely more of an awareness to traumatic brain injuries.

I love a good body check, and fight, and what not... I feel there is a bit of... you step on the ice, you know the possibilities, much like fighting in MMA, but there are absolutely things that can be done to get unnecessary hits out of the game. The line at which these hits are deemed unnecessary is kind of grey, and that needs to be defined more clearly, and enforced better. That's really the problem with the NHL. Inconsistency plagues this league to a laughable level in multiple areas. I don't think it's as simple as pussifying hockey and lack of respect, because there are always going to be a handful of clowns in the league, it's a multi-layered issue, much like any issue in the world.
- j.boyd919

Loved this especially the second half. They can change the rules on what is a legal hit so that what we call borderline now is a clear penalty.

The idea shouldn't be to see how close you can get to a head shot and if it accidently happens because someone slightly changes the position of their head oh well. If you play on the edge of a cliff, chances are you will slip and fall down it eventually.

The only way they'll get phased out is when the NHL loses an absurd amount of money via a class action lawsuit. This will happen. The days of saying "you knew what you were getting into" are gone.

I disagree that the game will lose physicality/hitting if a headshot becomes an automatic penalty. Players adapt. They always do. I can watch a weeks worth of games and not see a guy get blasted in the head like Wilson has carelessly done 4 times in these playoffs.
- madmike71

Exactly. I definitely agree with this.

The only way they'll get phased out is when the NHL loses an absurd amount of money via a class action lawsuit. This will happen. The days of saying "you knew what you were getting into" are gone.

I disagree that the game will lose physicality/hitting if a headshot becomes an automatic penalty. Players adapt. They always do. I can watch a weeks worth of games and not see a guy get blasted in the head like Wilson has carelessly done 4 times in these playoffs.
- madmike71

Exactly. If you tell them you're getting penalized or suspended if you hit their head then they'll change how they hit. If Matt Cooke can, so can Tom Wilson.

And yet some people are more worried about guys trying to get themselves hit in the head and possibly concussed (likely if you keep doing it) then protecting players drom receiving head shots.

There are still some dinosaurs in charge of the NHL that need to be phased out too. I think a good group of the GMs understand the game is evolving, but there are some that are just too stubborn (and I'm not referring to analytics in anyway).
- j.boyd919

Yeah I got into a pretty heated argument with my buddy yesterday when the Tom Wilson suspension came out. He's your classic old school hockey guy (and a Bruins fan, which ups the ante even further on that brand) and was lamenting the death of the NHL.

What the hell is wrong with making head contact an automatic penalty? What the hell is wrong with automatically suspending someone who intentionally made said head contact? We're pretty much arguing at this point that hits to the head should be implicitly legal but tabooed due to the unwritten rules of hockey.

In actual hockey news Hags is a game time decision. Wearing a normal jersey but hasn't taken contact so good luck guessing.

Sprong joined the NHL group again this morning after skating with the Aces yesterday, so again I got no clue how Sully is leaning which is probably what he wants. I'd play Sprong over Simon or Rowney.

Exactly. If you tell them you're getting penalized or suspended if you hit their head then they'll change how they hit. If Matt Cooke can, so can Tom Wilson.

And yet some people are more worried about guys trying to get themselves hit in the head and possibly concussed (likely if you keep doing it) then protecting players drom receiving head shots.
- Tojo.

Yeah I've been thinking about this. People get themselves intentionally tripped all the time and people don't advocate eliminating tripping. If a player wants to draw a penalty by dropping his body and putting his head in the line of fire of an elbow, well that's just fine and dandy, but they're gonna have a really short career and be eating apple juice through a straw for the rest of their life.

Yeah I got into a pretty heated argument with my buddy yesterday when the Tom Wilson suspension came out. He's your classic old school hockey guy (and a Bruins fan, which ups the ante even further on that brand) and was lamenting the death of the NHL.

What the hell is wrong with making head contact an automatic penalty? What the hell is wrong with automatically suspending someone who intentionally made said head contact? We're pretty much arguing at this point that hits to the head should be implicitly legal but tabooed due to the unwritten rules of hockey.
- Victoro311

Barry Trotz deserves to be suspended more than Wilson. Man that guy is a piece of garbage. When I see a picture of his (never smiling, always angry) face, it makes me start shaking with rage. Ovechkin could go to a night club, get all drugged up and stab someone in the face, and Trotz would be in the media claiming that "the individual walked into the knife. Ovechkin was just trying to show a friend what he uses to butter his toast."

It's a very similar feeling to how I feel when I see Brad Marchand's nose.

I love Breaking Bad, but man do people love to overrate it and call it the best show of all time. There are only two acceptable answers: The Sopranos or the Wire. Breaking Bad maybe cracks the top 5 at exactly 5.
- Victoro311

Babylon 5

You used to say some half intelligent thoughtful stuff here and there...now you're just reduced down to immature crap.

Did you suffer a concussion Feds?
- MattStrat

I have had a couple I'm sure.

Barry Trotz deserves to be suspended more than Wilson. Man that guy is a piece of garbage. When I see a picture of his (never smiling, always angry) face, it makes me start shaking with rage. Ovechkin could go to a night club, get all drugged up and stab someone in the face, and Trotz would be in the media claiming that "the individual walked into the knife. Ovechkin was just trying to show a friend what he uses to butter his toast."

It's a very similar feeling to how I feel when I see Brad Marchand's nose.
- bochangs

oh wow

I have had a couple I'm sure.
- Feds91Stammer

All that headbanging into flyfreaky waist, eh?

All that headbanging into flyfreaky waist, eh?
- RafiDRW

don't pretend you weren't in on the action too

don't pretend you weren't in on the action too
- Feds91Stammer

Lot of that fatass togo around, to be sure.