UFA Versteeg? Brouwer? Who you refering to?

Stone will have a bit of value, but it's bad policy to trade a player one year removed from signing a contract as a UFA.
- fry

I wasn't referring to anyone. I was just speaking generally. However, I would look at moving Frolik and as much as I agree with your belief on optics of trading a recently signed player, I see the Stone situation as a different one. He wasn't signed as a complete FA. We traded for him and then extended him. He's played 1/3 of his most recent contract and these guys know that it's a business. Besides, would he want to be in CGY as a #7 D or would he rather be moved to a team he can play and get decent ice time?

And why don't the Flames want those players to help their young core along?
- Hunkulese

At some point the young guys become the vets. Monahan is going on year 6 in this league. Hamilton is going on year 7. We'll still have Gio who has mentored Brodie and now Hamilton. He'll likely still be around playing on the bottom pairings for awhile mentoring guys like Fox or Valimaki. If we could move Brouwer, great, but we're likely stuck with him for his contract. We still have Backlund and Hamonic as well as Brodie unless we trade him (which I would).

And, we were specifically talking Andersson, one of our only right shot D prospects. The only one that is anywhere close to making the jump. You have to keep moving out expensive contracts and adding low cost ELC or low 2nd contracts on talented young players to remain a contender and relevant in this league.

We're ready to trade some vets, in my opinion, and let the younger guys take charge.

Crazy possibility or win-win for both teams?

Pat Hickey writing in the Montreal Gazette says the Habs should trade their pick for a centre.

http://montrealgazette.co...ld-trade-first-round-pick

Hickey has been covering the Habs since forever and knows his stuff.

I realize that virtually everyone thinks getting Tkachuk is a crazy hallucination but... who got the Sedins to Vancouver and how convoluted was that deal?

Talk about generational players all you want but they're pretty common compared to a top 6 sibling combo. Kent Wilson wrote a great piece in the Athletic yesterday about MT being arguably the best player on the team. Add his brother and how good would MT be then?

Could the Flames do a deal like this? Imo, if they wanted to, absolutely.
Of course, it probably won't happen because too many things have to fall into place.

But I can't help imagining what the Flames would be like to play against if it did happen.
- itwasin

You really want a team who struggled to score last year to trade their best goal scorer for a prospect who's probably not going to be in the NHL next year?

Crazy possibility or win-win for both teams?

Pat Hickey writing in the Montreal Gazette says the Habs should trade their pick for a centre.

http://montrealgazette.co...ld-trade-first-round-pick

Hickey has been covering the Habs since forever and knows his stuff.

I realize that virtually everyone thinks getting Tkachuk is a crazy hallucination but... who got the Sedins to Vancouver and how convoluted was that deal?

Talk about generational players all you want but they're pretty common compared to a top 6 sibling combo. Kent Wilson wrote a great piece in the Athletic yesterday about MT being arguably the best player on the team. Add his brother and how good would MT be then?

Could the Flames do a deal like this? Imo, if they wanted to, absolutely.
Of course, it probably won't happen because too many things have to fall into place.

But I can't help imagining what the Flames would be like to play against if it did happen.
- itwasin

Who are you suggesting we trade? If you're thinking Monny then definitely not. You don't trade that kinda talent hoping to get the next Sedin twins

I know there are going to be problems with this post but to get value you have to give value. I am proposing a couple trades that could help the Flames out.

Bennett
Brodie

For

DET - Mantha
DET - #33 + #36 (2018 - 2nd Round Picks)

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

TOR - Nylander
TOR - #55 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
TOR - 2019 - 2nd Round Pick

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

BUF - Reinhart
BUF - #32 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
BUF - Griffith

I really really like both Bennett and Brodie and if they are on the team next year I would be just as happy. I feel if the Flames want to get back into the first 2 rounds of this year's draft and get some help to the top 6 Brodie and/or Bennett are going to part of the deal. I think these are solid deals to at least start a conversation.

I know there are going to be problems with this post but to get value you have to give value. I am proposing a couple trades that could help the Flames out.

Bennett
Brodie

For

DET - Mantha
DET - #33 + #36 (2018 - 2nd Round Picks)
I like the idea of getting Mantha, although I doubt Detroit will let him go. I also believe that the Flames need more in this trade - make one of those 2nds a first (next year - because they are not likely to give up this year's first) and I would do it.

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

TOR - Nylander
TOR - #55 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
TOR - 2019 - 2nd Round Pick
Again - need a first if we are trading Brodie & Bennett. I think Kapanen might be a better ask from Toronto - likely cheaper than Nylander and I believe he is getting buried by Toronto's forward depth. If given the chance - he could be a gem.

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

BUF - Reinhart
BUF - #32 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
BUF - Griffith

I don't like this one. Not a Reinhart fan - don't know who Griffith is. Need a first - next year's - don't think Buffalo is going to do that.

I really really like both Bennett and Brodie and if they are on the team next year I would be just as happy. I feel if the Flames want to get back into the first 2 rounds of this year's draft and get some help to the top 6 Brodie and/or Bennett are going to part of the deal. I think these are solid deals to at least start a conversation.
- buddy_doug

I know there are going to be problems with this post but to get value you have to give value. I am proposing a couple trades that could help the Flames out.

Bennett
Brodie

For

DET - Mantha
DET - #33 + #36 (2018 - 2nd Round Picks)

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

TOR - Nylander
TOR - #55 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
TOR - 2019 - 2nd Round Pick

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

BUF - Reinhart
BUF - #32 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
BUF - Griffith

I really really like both Bennett and Brodie and if they are on the team next year I would be just as happy. I feel if the Flames want to get back into the first 2 rounds of this year's draft and get some help to the top 6 Brodie and/or Bennett are going to part of the deal. I think these are solid deals to at least start a conversation.
- buddy_doug

None of those deals make much sense for the other teams. They're giving up the better players in all three trades and throwing in draft picks.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for the Flames to trade Bennett right now. His trade value isn't going to be very high so they may as well hang on to him and hope he figures things out.

Johnny Gaudreau on a line at the world championships with Bill Peters' favourite 5'10 grinder Derek Ryan.

Get ready guys, it's coming soon.

I know there are going to be problems with this post but to get value you have to give value. I am proposing a couple trades that could help the Flames out.

Bennett
Brodie

For

DET - Mantha
DET - #33 + #36 (2018 - 2nd Round Picks)

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

TOR - Nylander
TOR - #55 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
TOR - 2019 - 2nd Round Pick

OR

Bennett
Brodie

For

BUF - Reinhart
BUF - #32 (2018 - 2nd Round Pick)
BUF - Griffith

I really really like both Bennett and Brodie and if they are on the team next year I would be just as happy. I feel if the Flames want to get back into the first 2 rounds of this year's draft and get some help to the top 6 Brodie and/or Bennett are going to part of the deal. I think these are solid deals to at least start a conversation.
- buddy_doug

Det trade - take away one pick and you might get that one done
Tor - might be no picks coming back in that trade. Maybe one of the 2nds
Buf - no chance, for a few reasons
- They are getting Dahlin, they have Risto and some other decent pieces, I don't know that Brodie would be seen as a big piece for them.
- Reinhart = Bennett at this stage of their careers.
- Griffith has no value
So it's effectively just Brodie for a 2nd, and that's a hard no from the Flames perspective.

Johnny Gaudreau on a line at the world championships with Bill Peters' favourite 5'10 grinder Derek Ryan.

Get ready guys, it's coming soon.
- BINGO!

Is Bill Peters coaching team USA ?

Is Bill Peters coaching team USA ?
- tincup

He's coaching Team Canada.

Bill has asked opposing coaches in this tournament put line combinations together for him before, though. Like getting Victor Rask and Elias Lindholm playing together for Sweden, etc.

Not saying that's the case here, obviously. That was more just a troll post (I hope).

- Reinhart = Bennett at this stage of their careers.

- rmull905

Um, what?

Reinhart has 20 more goals and 50 more points than Bennett after three seasons and has shown progression in every season. Reinhart has significantly more value than Bennett at this point. Buffalo fans would riot if they made that deal.

Um, what?

Reinhart has 20 more goals and 50 more points than Bennett after three seasons and has shown progression in every season. Reinhart has significantly more value than Bennett at this point. Buffalo fans would riot if they made that deal.
- Hunkulese

Well, let's just disspell that notion really quickly:

- He hasn't show progression from a production standpoint - he's been stagnant, suggesting he may be capped at his current level of production. His production is fine, .5 PPG is really not bad, but that is with some primo time (below)
- Plays more minutes per game and more top 6 minutes with Buf than Bennett does with CGY (paired most frequently with O'Reilly, Bennett paired mostly with Janko)
- Averages 3.3 power play minutes per game (2 minute per game higher avg than Bennett)
- 21 of Reinhart's points last year came on the PP. More than 40%. Comparing their 5/5 stats, they are almost on par (29 points for Reinhart, 23 for Bennett)
- Has a worse plus/minus (albeit, playing for a worse team)

So yeah, all things being equal, I think Bennett produces at or near the same level as Reinhart given the same opportunities.

Well, let's just disspell that notion really quickly:

- He hasn't show progression from a production standpoint - he's been stagnant, suggesting he may be capped at his current level of production. His production is fine, .5 PPG is really not bad, but that is with some primo time (below)
- Plays more minutes per game and more top 6 minutes with Buf than Bennett does with CGY (paired most frequently with O'Reilly, Bennett paired mostly with Janko)
- Averages 3.3 power play minutes per game (2 minute per game higher avg than Bennett)
- 21 of Reinhart's points last year came on the PP. More than 40%. Comparing their 5/5 stats, they are almost on par (29 points for Reinhart, 23 for Bennett)
- Has a worse plus/minus (albeit, playing for a worse team)

So yeah, all things being equal, I think Bennett produces at or near the same level as Reinhart given the same opportunities.
- rmull905

Based on what?

We've given Bennett time in the Top 6 and on the powerplay and he still didn't do anything with those opportunities. You could argue that with more time in the Top 6 he'd start producing consistently but why would we give him that ice time if he hasn't shown anything with it in the opportunities we do give him?

I'm not saying we should trade Bennett. Right now his value is low and I highly doubt any trade we make involvijg him would be worth the return. But he hasn't shown anything to indicate that he can produce to the same level Reinhart is.

Based on what?

We've given Bennett time in the Top 6 and on the powerplay and he still didn't do anything with those opportunities. You could argue that with more time in the Top 6 he'd start producing consistently but why would we give him that ice time if he hasn't shown anything with it in the opportunities we do give him?

I'm not saying we should trade Bennett. Right now his value is low and I highly doubt any trade we make involvijg him would be worth the return. But he hasn't shown anything to indicate that he can produce to the same level Reinhart is.
- Helios

You mean apart from his 5 on 5 where he is playing with lesser players and producing at a nearly equal rate to a guy getting regular top 6 minutes?

And yeah, he didn't produce in his 115 total minutes on the power play in 2017/2018. The entire team sucked. It was sporadic, the entire power play setup and execution (generally) was a disaster for most of the season. A 28th ranked powerplay overall is what we're hanging Bennett's stats on?

I just don't think you're getting a significant upgrade with him playing 3rd line minutes over Bennett. Ferland would be unlikely to move off the top line in favour of Reinhart, Frolik (atm) isn't going anywhere, so why go after a guy that is not a considerable upgrade over what you're plugging on the 3rd line today?

If the argument is that he should be playing top 6 (and PP) minutes to be put in a position to succeed... so should Bennett. He hasn't really been afforded that consistent opportunity in the way Reinhart has.

Well, let's just disspell that notion really quickly:

- He hasn't show progression from a production standpoint - he's been stagnant, suggesting he may be capped at his current level of production. His production is fine, .5 PPG is really not bad, but that is with some primo time (below)
- Plays more minutes per game and more top 6 minutes with Buf than Bennett does with CGY (paired most frequently with O'Reilly, Bennett paired mostly with Janko)
- Averages 3.3 power play minutes per game (2 minute per game higher avg than Bennett)
- 21 of Reinhart's points last year came on the PP. More than 40%. Comparing their 5/5 stats, they are almost on par (29 points for Reinhart, 23 for Bennett)
- Has a worse plus/minus (albeit, playing for a worse team)

So yeah, all things being equal, I think Bennett produces at or near the same level as Reinhart given the same opportunities.
- rmull905

50 points is more than 47 points which is more than 42 points. Sure, it's not major steps forward, but they're still steps forward. Compared that to Bennett whose best season was 36 points 3 seasons ago.

Bennett has done nothing so far to earn top six minutes. If you need top six minutes and linemates to contribute at all, you're not really a top six player. He also didn't do anything with the PP time he was given, and didn't impress the coach enough in practive to earn more.

Not being able to earn more ice time from the coach isn't normally something you say reflects favourably on a player.

-46 is also worse than -44.

There's no way an unbiased observer is going to say Bennett and Reinhart have been equal players so far in their career.

You mean apart from his 5 on 5 where he is playing with lesser players and producing at a nearly equal rate to a guy getting regular top 6 minutes?

And yeah, he didn't produce in his 115 total minutes on the power play in 2017/2018. The entire team sucked. It was sporadic, the entire power play setup and execution (generally) was a disaster for most of the season. A 28th ranked powerplay overall is what we're hanging Bennett's stats on?

I just don't think you're getting a significant upgrade with him playing 3rd line minutes over Bennett. Ferland would be unlikely to move off the top line in favour of Reinhart, Frolik (atm) isn't going anywhere, so why go after a guy that is not a considerable upgrade over what you're plugging on the 3rd line today?

If the argument is that he should be playing top 6 (and PP) minutes to be put in a position to succeed... so should Bennett. He hasn't really been afforded that consistent opportunity in the way Reinhart has.
- rmull905

Bennett has done absolutely nothing to warrant consistently giving him Top 6 minutes. His career high in points so far is 36. Reinhart's career low is 42, and he has gotten more points every year he's been in the League than his previous season. Reinhart can make a case for Top 6. Bennett certainly can't.

And you're right, Bennett hasn't been given a ton of Top 6 time. That's why when he is given it, he needs to prove he deserves it. He hasn't. That's not the coach's fault. Not his linemates' fault. It's nobody's fault but his. If he can't earn Top 6 ice time then he shouldn't have it. I don't want to give it to him and hope he does something with it. He has to prove he deserves it, and so far he hasn't. It's as simple as that.

Reinhart is definitely an upgrade over Bennett at this point in their careers. A simple look at career point totals will tell you that.

Bennett has done absolutely nothing to warrant consistently giving him Top 6 minutes. His career high in points so far is 36. Reinhart's career low is 42, and he has gotten more points every year he's been in the League than his previous season. Reinhart can make a case for Top 6. Bennett certainly can't.

And you're right, Bennett hasn't been given a ton of Top 6 time. That's why when he is given it, he needs to prove he deserves it. He hasn't. That's not the coach's fault. Not his linemates' fault. It's nobody's fault but his. If he can't earn Top 6 ice time then he shouldn't have it. I don't want to give it to him and hope he does something with it. He has to prove he deserves it, and so far he hasn't. It's as simple as that.

Reinhart is definitely an upgrade over Bennett at this point in their careers. A simple look at career point totals will tell you that.
- Helios[/quote


Totally agree that Bennett has to do more when given the opportunity but it would have been nice to see him given a longer look. I'm not the only one here that wanted Sam to Be given a consistent look in the top 6. He looked good with 23 & 13 when given the chance, looked good with 19 the times they were together. It's time for SB to start showing why he was picked 4oa, new coaching staff, clean slate.

Det trade - take away one pick and you might get that one done
Tor - might be no picks coming back in that trade. Maybe one of the 2nds
Buf - no chance, for a few reasons
- They are getting Dahlin, they have Risto and some other decent pieces, I don't know that Brodie would be seen as a big piece for them.
- Reinhart = Bennett at this stage of their careers.
- Griffith has no value
So it's effectively just Brodie for a 2nd, and that's a hard no from the Flames perspective.
- rmull905

I disagree with your Buffalo assessment. I think Reinhart has proven more, he is RH and playing the RW. Buffalo has a couple RW prospects that they are probably looking to bring up into their top 6 (like Alex Nylander). I think Buffalo is in a tough spot. Eichel $10M contract kicks in this coming year and at the moment they only have 7 forwards and 5 defensemen signed for next year. I would say that Bennett next contract will probably be cheaper than Reinharts and Brodie's contract is a bargain for a top 4 puck moving defensemen plus he is sign for another 2 years under $5M. Yes Dahlin is coming but they were the worst team in the league last year so I am guessing they could still use some defensive help. Then you look at the goalie situation Lehner has not shown much plus he ended the year injured. If they want to go out to get a goalie the price tag would be pretty big.

Simply put my argument is they have to up some big dollars over the next couple years and Bennett and Brodie might be bargains to fill the needs they have (LW and an upgrade to their top 4 D). We need some skill on the right side in our top 6 and Reinhart might fill that need. Plus the pick gets the Flames back into this years draft.

Seth Griffith has had really good AHL point numbers (last 3 years in the AHL 141 games and 162 points) even if he just plays on the Heat he could give the kids coming up a decent linemate to play with.

Bennett has done absolutely nothing to warrant consistently giving him Top 6 minutes. His career high in points so far is 36. Reinhart's career low is 42, and he has gotten more points every year he's been in the League than his previous season. Reinhart can make a case for Top 6. Bennett certainly can't.

And you're right, Bennett hasn't been given a ton of Top 6 time. That's why when he is given it, he needs to prove he deserves it. He hasn't. That's not the coach's fault. Not his linemates' fault. It's nobody's fault but his. If he can't earn Top 6 ice time then he shouldn't have it. I don't want to give it to him and hope he does something with it. He has to prove he deserves it, and so far he hasn't. It's as simple as that.

Reinhart is definitely an upgrade over Bennett at this point in their careers. A simple look at career point totals will tell you that.
- Helios

But it doesn't. You're blinding yourself to the fact that more than 40% of his point production comes on the PP, where he sees more than double the amount of time (and consistent time at that) than Bennett does.

When he's had time in the top 6, it's been for enormously short stretches of time, and has been afforded the opportunity to develop chemistry with his linemates.

50 points is more than 47 points which is more than 42 points. Sure, it's not major steps forward, but they're still steps forward. Compared that to Bennett whose best season was 36 points 3 seasons ago.

Bennett has done nothing so far to earn top six minutes. If you need top six minutes and linemates to contribute at all, you're not really a top six player. He also didn't do anything with the PP time he was given, and didn't impress the coach enough in practive to earn more.

Not being able to earn more ice time from the coach isn't normally something you say reflects favourably on a player.

-46 is also worse than -44.

There's no way an unbiased observer is going to say Bennett and Reinhart have been equal players so far in their career.
- Hunkulese

LOL - 3 points per season is not progression, it's stagnation. Yes, I will grant you that Bennett's best production was in the past. When he played almost an entire season on a much better line.

2015/2016 - The highest % of his total playing minutes were with Backlund and Frolik
2016/2017 - The highest % of his total playing minutes were with Brouwer and Versteeg.
2017/2018 - The highest % of his total playing minutes were with Janko and Hath

If you don't think that has an effect on production, you're nuts. Put Marner/Nylander/Reinhart on a line with Brouwer/Versteeg or Janko/Hath and watch their production PLUMMET

And let's totally disregard the fact that Reinhart has more than 2x the powerplay time that Bennett received, and that 40% of his production came from those minutes. Oh, and that 5v5, there is a 6 point differential.

I disagree with your Buffalo assessment. I think Reinhart has proven more, he is RH and playing the RW. Buffalo has a couple RW prospects that they are probably looking to bring up into their top 6 (like Alex Nylander). I think Buffalo is in a tough spot. Eichel $10M contract kicks in this coming year and at the moment they only have 7 forwards and 5 defensemen signed for next year. I would say that Bennett next contract will probably be cheaper than Reinharts and Brodie's contract is a bargain for a top 4 puck moving defensemen plus he is sign for another 2 years under $5M. Yes Dahlin is coming but they were the worst team in the league last year so I am guessing they could still use some defensive help. Then you look at the goalie situation Lehner has not shown much plus he ended the year injured. If they want to go out to get a goalie the price tag would be pretty big.

Simply put my argument is they have to up some big dollars over the next couple years and Bennett and Brodie might be bargains to fill the needs they have (LW and an upgrade to their top 4 D). We need some skill on the right side in our top 6 and Reinhart might fill that need. Plus the pick gets the Flames back into this years draft.

Seth Griffith has had really good AHL point numbers (last 3 years in the AHL 141 games and 162 points) even if he just plays on the Heat he could give the kids coming up a decent linemate to play with.
- buddy_doug

That's fine, we're here to disagree. Buffalo is getting a franchise, NHL ready defenceman in Dahlin who is likely to immediately step into their top 4, if not their top pairing. I think Brodie's value is somewhat lessened to a team like that, but your statement is fair nonetheless.

On Reinhart, I think I've laid out why I feel he's more or less Bennett's equal, given similar opportunity to produce. Agree that the right hand shot gives him some added value on this team though, and yes, the pick has some value this year, agreed.

That's fine, we're here to disagree. Buffalo is getting a franchise, NHL ready defenceman in Dahlin who is likely to immediately step into their top 4, if not their top pairing. I think Brodie's value is somewhat lessened to a team like that, but your statement is fair nonetheless.

On Reinhart, I think I've laid out why I feel he's more or less Bennett's equal, given similar opportunity to produce. Agree that the right hand shot gives him some added value on this team though, and yes, the pick has some value this year, agreed.
- rmull905

Sam Reinhart is only 7 months older than Bennett, and has 51 more points in only 8 more games.... I'm not sure they're similar.

Sam Reinhart is only 7 months older than Bennett, and has 51 more points in only 8 more games.... I'm not sure they're similar.
- BINGO!

Yes, simple stats suggest that. 5 v 5 and player usage would tell a slightly different story. Pair Reinhart with Bennett's linemates and take away his PP time and their production numbers likely come much closer together. Or pair Bennett with ROR and see what happens.

If nothing else, it's a hockey trade, and I'm fine with that, but I think Bennett takes off getting more minutes.