Pens lose the next two and finish in last wild-card. Play Boston. Get destroyed.

A Happy Easter to us all!

Pens lose the next two and finish in last wild-card. Play Boston. Get destroyed.

A Happy Easter to us all!
- ghostibator

In order to finish as the last WC the Blow jackets, Devils and flyers would all need to win out I believe (in addition to the pens dropping their games).

I don't see it happening. Also this thread would lose its mind.

Rules for those expansion drafts were VASTLY different. They changed the rules a lot to give the Knights a chance to make a competitive team, back in the day, all the expansion teams got were scrubs.

But on the other note, I agree with you, I think the gap between teams is way smaller nowadays than it was back then.
- j.boyd919

Well, thats kinda what happened for the Knights too...ie the Blue Jackets considered Karlsson a scrub. Some of the players they picked up were financial decisions for the former club and not because they're a scrub ei: Neal, Perron or Fleury. These financial decisions wouldn't of usually been the case years ago for expansion drafts because there was no cap, salary limits or term limits.

One big difference/factor here though these days is that the quality of NHL player has drastically risen too. I think it might of been you the other day that said the difference in quality between 1st liners and 4th liners has dropped significantly and if it was indeed you that said that, you're right.

Well, thats kinda what happened for the Knights too...ie the Blue Jackets considered Karlsson a scrub. Some of the players they picked up were financial decisions for the former club and not because they're a scrub ei: Neal, Perron or Fleury. These financial decisions wouldn't of usually been the case years ago for expansion drafts because there was no cap, salary limits or term limits.

One big difference.factor here though these days is that the quality of NHL player has drastically risen too. I think it might of been you the other day that said the difference in quality between 1st liners and 4th liners has dropped significantly and if it was indeed you that said that, you're right.
- MattStrat

While I agree with a lot of what you said, the protection rules were much more restrictive for the Vegas draft than for other teams. That's why some teams were trading them first round picks, because they couldn't protect as many players.

No one knew that Karlsson would score 40, but he's not "a scrub" either. Even with MAF, the Knights' marquee player, Pittsburgh had to give them a second to take him. Anaheim got burned because they had too many good defenders, and I think Nashville would have protected Neal if they didn't have to go 4/4/1 because of their deep blueline.

Just based solely on the rules (not to mention the ridiculous 48-hour FA window they were given), it's clear they were given a better chance than any prior expansion team.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, the protection rules were much more restrictive for the Vegas draft than for other teams. That's why some teams were trading them first round picks, because they couldn't protect as many players.

No one knew that Karlsson would score 40, but he's not "a scrub" either. Even with MAF, the Knights' marquee player, Pittsburgh had to give them a second to take him. Anaheim got burned because they had too many good defenders, and I think Nashville would have protected Neal if they didn't have to go 4/4/1 because of their deep blueline.

Just based solely on the rules (not to mention the ridiculous 48-hour FA window they were given), it's clear they were given a better chance than any prior expansion team.
- jmatchett383

No doubt. Would never disagree with that. The overall quality of NHL players is a factor in this as well though. Karlsson was never projected above being a bottom 6 as far as I know, I could be totally wrong there, but given the right linemates and opportunity he looks like a bonafide 1C. BJ's would never of exposed him had they known he was capable of this or even if they thought he had the potential of this.

Has anything Karlsson-esq happened before with players in the other expansions drafts? Thats an honest question, I really dont know, but feel like if it had happened Id of read about it or picked up something about it along the way.

EDIT: should also mention that I'm pretty sure that deals were made in other expansion drafts as well so that players were protected

No doubt. Would never disagree with that. The overall quality of NHL players is a factor in this as well though. Karlsson was never projected above being a bottom 6 as far as I know, I could be totally wrong there, but given the right linemates and opportunity he looks like a bonafide 1C. BJ's would never of exposed him had they known he was capable of this or even if they thought he had the potential of this.

Has anything Karlsson-esq happened before with players in the other expansions drafts? Thats an honest question, I really dont know, but feel like if it had happened Id of read about it or picked up something about it along the way.
- MattStrat

The biggest surprise of an expansion draft prior to this was probably Brian Bradley with TB in 92/93. Was never a big producer with Toronto or Vancouver, but put up 86 points (including 26 PPG), and was a consistent producer for the next 3 years.

If they could have moved Hartnell and his NMC, Kalrsson is probably the player that would have been next on their protected list (maybe Calvert) and, if they had to use the 2000 rules, they probably would have ended up with a guy like Lauri Korpikoski or Kyle Quincey.

Edit: Here were the 3 deals made in the 2000 expansion draft (summed up):

- San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick , and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

- Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks to Columbus the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.

- San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick, and a third-round pick to Minnesota for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Not exactly the same caliber of picks being used for protection due to the 4 extra protection slots.

it's clear they were given a better chance than any prior expansion team.
- jmatchett383

This and it’s not even close.

Well, thats kinda what happened for the Knights too...ie the Blue Jackets considered Karlsson a scrub. Some of the players they picked up were financial decisions for the former club and not because they're a scrub ei: Neal, Perron or Fleury. These financial decisions wouldn't of usually been the case years ago for expansion drafts because there was no cap, salary limits or term limits.

One big difference/factor here though these days is that the quality of NHL player has drastically risen too. I think it might of been you the other day that said the difference in quality between 1st liners and 4th liners has dropped significantly and if it was indeed you that said that, you're right.
- MattStrat

The biggest difference is that teams were not allowed to protect as many players, and that there were restrictions with NMC, NTC, etc. There is a huge difference in protecting 7 forwards and 3 defensemen, as opposed to 9 forwards and 5 defensemen. Given the limitations and the NTC/NMC restrictions, it forced teams to expose MUCH better players in the past.

I do agree that the difference from 1st to 4th line is much smaller, and yeah that was me... but I think you would see a much different Vegas team had teams been allowed to protect 9/5 as opposed to 7/3. They'd probably be hanging out in the cellar with Edmonton, Buffalo, and Arizona.

If they add another team I’m curious if they’ll stick with the same system or refine it at all.

If they add another team I’m curious if they’ll stick with the same system or refine it at all.
- Rinosaur

With the success the Knights have had, are you really all that curious?

If they add another team I’m curious if they’ll stick with the same system or refine it at all.
- Rinosaur

If they add the Seattle Beluga Whales it won't matter how restrictive the player protection is. poopty on-ice product or not, the fans will come out to support them.

The biggest surprise of an expansion draft prior to this was probably Brian Bradley with TB in 92/93. Was never a big producer with Toronto or Vancouver, but put up 86 points (including 26 PPG), and was a consistent producer for the next 3 years.

If they could have moved Hartnell and his NMC, Kalrsson is probably the player that would have been next on their protected list (maybe Calvert) and, if they had to use the 2000 rules, they probably would have ended up with a guy like Lauri Korpikoski or Kyle Quincey.

Edit: Here were the 3 deals made in the 2000 expansion draft (summed up):

- San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick , and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

- Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks to Columbus the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.

- San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick, and a third-round pick to Minnesota for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Not exactly the same caliber of picks being used for protection due to the 4 extra protection slots.
- jmatchett383

Thanks for all of that, it was a good read. Yeah 4 extra expansion slots is a major difference. No way would VGK be as strong if there was 4 more.

With the success the Knights have had, are you really all that curious?
- jmatchett383

hahah yeah, they're not going to change that. I'd be surprised if they even tweak it at all.

The biggest difference is that teams were not allowed to protect as many players, and that there were restrictions with NMC, NTC, etc. There is a huge difference in protecting 7 forwards and 3 defensemen, as opposed to 9 forwards and 5 defensemen. Given the limitations and the NTC/NMC restrictions, it forced teams to expose MUCH better players in the past.

I do agree that the difference from 1st to 4th line is much smaller, and yeah that was me... but I think you would see a much different Vegas team had teams been allowed to protect 9/5 as opposed to 7/3. They'd probably be hanging out in the cellar with Edmonton, Buffalo, and Arizona.
- j.boyd919

Yeah like I said to Matchett, 4 extra slots is a major, major difference. With 5 dmen protected you're basically keeping your entire starting D lineup with a chance of losing your 6th/7th type guy haha

With the success the Knights have had, are you really all that curious?
- jmatchett383

Yes. Teams might put up a stink about some things. While the league ultimately decides, if all the teams speak up about certain issues they could sway some decisions.

If they add the Seattle Beluga Whales it won't matter how restrictive the player protection is. poopty on-ice product or not, the fans will come out to support them.
- DeflatedPucks

My guess is two more teams are the next move. Quebec and Seattle with one of those teams being a team that moved from another city. ***coughs*** Ottawa ***coughs****

Yes. Teams might put up a stink about some things. While the league ultimately decides, if all the teams speak up about certain issues they could sway some decisions.
- Rinosaur

I thought Seattle was pretty much a guarantee at this point and it sounds like the fee will be $650mil. Owners aren't going to complain too much with that kind of cash coming their way.

While I'm generally against expansion, I think getting the expansion clubs started on solid ground is one of the smartest things the NHL has ever done.

Yes. Teams might put up a stink about some things. While the league ultimately decides, if all the teams speak up about certain issues they could sway some decisions.
- Rinosaur

You're confusing GMs with owners. Sadly, most of the owners nowadays care more about money than product. The teams will profit more if the new expansion team is good right out of the gate. There's no chance, to me, that they'd change anything.

I thought Seattle was pretty much a guarantee at this point and it sounds like the fee will be $650mil. Owners aren't going to complain too much with that kind of cash coming their way.

While I'm generally against expansion, I think getting the expansion clubs started on solid ground is one of the smartest things the NHL has ever done.
- madmike71

I was just thinking out loud. Probably my low hockey IQ at play.

I was just thinking out loud. Probably my low hockey IQ at play.
- Rinosaur

Man, yo IQ be so low that be bringing a ruler to bed to see how long you slept.

Man, yo IQ be so low that be bringing a ruler to bed to see how long you slept.
- jmatchett383

LOL nicely done

LOL nicely done
- Rinosaur

Man, yo IQ be so low that it gotsta slam dunk change in yo piggy bank.

Man, yo IQ be so low that it gotsta slam dunk change in yo piggy bank.
- jmatchett383

I feel like we finally have a replacement for “Yo momma so fat” jokes.

I feel like we finally have a replacement for “Yo momma so fat” jokes.
- Rinosaur

Sadly, that's all I've got.

Also, it's kinda creepy how much you and I see eye to eye. Are you sure we're not alts?

If they add another team I’m curious if they’ll stick with the same system or refine it at all.
- Rinosaur

I'm kind of excited to see how teams adjust. A few teams played it poorly and provided object lessons for everyone.

Pens will have a tougher time. They had a few noteworthy exemptions last time and good bait to leave out in Fleury. Hornqvist has a NTC try doing a protect list. All the more reason to go all out the next couple years. (Guessing the chance of Dumo being exposed is more likely here then in reality).