Thanks for sharing. ... Very interesting indeed. My first thought was these "never before seen" entry and possession stats were accrued with how many rookies and new faces in the lineup, a lineup that has been juggled so it can't possibly have optimum chemistry. It has been done in spite of itself!............ Also tells me despite the defensive shortcomings the young defense is triggering the attack well enough to allow a clean carry in, record setting in fact, and that's real good.

So it must be the system, no? Or does the opponent allow them in knowing they will work the edges and not be dangerous with the puck and in fact with this posture the Hawks will allow transition, weak neutral zone play and easy entries? Like a boxer who lets you in only cuz he knows you're vulnerable to the counter punch.

For me I watch where the center and Dmen are in the Ozone. A center low below the circles means you're aggressive, a center high, above the circles, means you are not. Same for Dmen. If they are joining as a 4th forward or often pinching they are aggressive if not they're in a defensive posture with all but the wings high.

Many things can be read into the Athletic's work one being Q 's system with a bunch of new faces and rookies, especially at D, has allowed for a dangerous group IF they could finish.
- Mr Ricochet

Defense is not easily mastered and the attackers keep getting faster and stronger. It is asking a lot of this defense to play well enough insofar as to the team makes the playoffs. A .500 record the rest of the way even with Crawford would be an accomplishment.

While I'm not saying Toews isn't without issues, here is another way to look at his value to the team. Here is a visual example of the 4 current C on the team, how much they've played with the other forwards and if the player had better or worse stats in some key areas at even strength

Toews


Schmaltz


Anismiov


Kampf



Toews may not be earning full value for his cap hit. He struggled to finish chances this year, especially on the PP and he has committed a few more 2 minute minors than you'd like to see, but in general the Hawks play better when he is on the ice.

Consider that Q often tries to get Toews out there vs top line players. Toews is the only C that is strong at the dot (Kampf is okay at 50.8%) and that #19 is often the first forward sent out on the PK. There isn't really a C on the team that plays harder minutes, but Toews does generally make the guys around him better. He has slumps in his individual production, but his line holds their own in the long run.

The Hawks would be hard pressed to replace him. I really think the coaching staff and his teammates see the value he does bring to the team.
- breadbag

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. ........ But the Schmaltz numbers can't be all when he's playing C. Much of those were earned at wing. Still the line of Schmaltz-AA-Kane is a good one.

And Toews' numbers shows Q's love of predictability. When he runs Toews out he knows what he's getting.

Edit: Indeed the fancy stats show that Saad and Toews are a good fit. But this ain't new to the Hawks and is a big reason they reacquired him.

Defense is not easily mastered and the attackers keep getting faster and stronger. It is asking a lot of this defense to play well enough insofar as to the team makes the playoffs. A .500 record the rest of the way even with Crawford would be an accomplishment.
- jhawk59

No doubt. I mean you're in charge of containing Crosby, Malkin, McD and the Matthews' of the world. To do so at an acceptable level takes 4-5-6 yrs at this level and have help from your forwards.

Really supports the argument that the best defense is to have the puck 150 feet away from your goalie as often as possible. ....And why mobile Dmen are so coveted. Their feet can get em out of trouble, and into it too, sometimes.

Some interesting thoughts here on the blog...

The biggest being trade 7 and 19...of course why would teams want those contracts? They don't. As far as those contracts they're on the GM who handed them out not the player. If you do actually get someone to take one of those deals you're talking about handing over 1 or 2 of your good young players to make it happen.

While the defense hasn't been stellar the Hawks aren't scoring - are they going after an Evander Kane or a Maroon or a Vanek type at the deadline? Doubtful..

Patrick Kane mentioned in talking to Lazerus that they'd have to go 23-10 the rest of the way to get a playoff spot. In that case they'd obviously need 50 in net. But he's still not on the ice yet.

The Preds might get Philip Forsberg back tonight. And while the Hawks always seem to play up to their opponent, I would expect they get drilled this evening.
4-1 Preds.

Some interesting thoughts here on the blog...

The biggest being trade 7 and 19...of course why would teams want those contracts? They don't. As far as those contracts they're on the GM who handed them out not the player. If you do actually get someone to take one of those deals you're talking about handing over 1 or 2 of your good young players to make it happen.

While the defense hasn't been stellar the Hawks aren't scoring - are they going after an Evander Kane or a Maroon or a Vanek type at the deadline? Doubtful..

Patrick Kane mentioned in talking to Lazerus that they'd have to go 23-10 the rest of the way to get a playoff spot. In that case they'd obviously need 50 in net. But he's still not on the ice yet.

The Preds might get Philip Forsberg back tonight. And while the Hawks always seem to play up to their opponent, I would expect they get drilled this evening.
4-1 Preds.
- DK002

Interesting thought on Maroon. Guy is a lug, but he generally seems to be able to keep up both pace and production with more skilled players when he's put with them.

I have a feeling they crap themselves tonight too. Its typical of this season, after any type of break, they come out bad to start, then show some life with 5-6 minutes left in the 3rd leaving everyone wondering what took them so long.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought hockey was a team game? 12 forwards, 6 D and a goalie are what leads to winning. Two players did not win those cups. I agree that all 3 of those guys are also going to be overpaid if the cap does not significantly rise. But, from an individual performance/production standpoint, all three have significantly outperformed Kane and Toews at the time their contracts were given out (Kane obviously has gone to the next level since that deal was signed which is why he's the best Hawk of this generation and GOAT USA born player when it's all said and done IMO).

The idea that the "branding" of 19+88 made them worth such an outrageous cap hit, when Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Shaw, Oduya, Hjallmarsson, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, ect were all KEY players in those Cup wins is silly, IMO. The reality is that those cap hits have resulted in the losses of key players (Saad before and now Panarin), and if the same result happens in EDM, BUF + TOR, then they won't win a single cup. At the same time, all three of those guys are barely 21, and will be earning that big money through their prime player years, not after their peak production has passed.

So, ultimately, the Hawks have the 3 Cups which is the greatest 10 years of Blackhawks hockey ever. However, there will always be that "What If?" with this era of Hawks hockey. What could have been had Bowman done a better job of locking down 19+88 for $8mil? If the Cap goes up, all these contracts become managable, and we can finally talk about something else. Until then, 19's lack of production relative to his cap hit is a very key reason why the Hawks are last in the division and likely to miss the playoffs for the first time in a decade. His lack of individual impact, coupled with the loss of a talent like Panarin (or Saad previously) to compensate for his cap # is the reality of the situation.
- EnzoD

Agree with all of this. That was, unfortunately, the market for them at the time. The PA was pushing for big salaries and the league revenue was way up. Things didn't go the way they thought and now we are stuck where we are.

Thanks for sharing. ... Very interesting indeed. My first thought was these "never before seen" entry and possession stats were accrued with how many rookies and new faces in the lineup, a lineup that has been juggled so it can't possibly have optimum chemistry. It has been done in spite of itself!............ Also tells me despite the defensive shortcomings the young defense is triggering the attack well enough to allow a clean carry in, record setting in fact, and that's real good.

So it must be the system, no? Or does the opponent allow them in knowing they will work the edges and not be dangerous with the puck and in fact with this posture the Hawks will allow transition, weak neutral zone play and easy entries? Like a boxer who lets you in only cuz he knows you're vulnerable to the counter punch.

For me I watch where the center and Dmen are in the Ozone. A center low below the circles means you're aggressive, a center high, above the circles, means you are not. Same for Dmen. If they are joining as a 4th forward or often pinching they are aggressive if not they're in a defensive posture with all but the wings high.

Many things can be read into the Athletic's work one being Q 's system with a bunch of new faces and rookies, especially at D, has allowed for a dangerous group IF they could finish.
- Mr Ricochet

I don't think it's so much the system as that it's 4 guys right now each with less than 100 games played under their belt. Defense takes time to master, and Qs system is a model for how the league plays now. hey are just not good or experienced enough yet. That's fine, it just sucks to watch them go from first place to not in the playoffs while the guys learn.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. ........ But the Schmaltz numbers can't be all when he's playing C. Much of those were earned at wing. Still the line of Schmaltz-AA-Kane is a good one.

And Toews' numbers shows Q's love of predictability. When he runs Toews out he knows what he's getting.

Edit: Indeed the fancy stats show that Saad and Toews are a good fit. But this ain't new to the Hawks and is a big reason they reacquired him.
- Mr Ricochet

You are correct that it includes data no matter which position they were playing at the time.

Schmaltz - AA - Kane as a group at even strength had been pretty good and I think the Hawks would go back to that if they find someone else they are comfortable with playing C on line 3.

I don't think it's so much the system as that it's 4 guys right now each with less than 100 games played under their belt. Defense takes time to master, and Qs system is a model for how the league plays now. hey are just not good or experienced enough yet. That's fine, it just sucks to watch them go from first place to not in the playoffs while the guys learn.
- JRoenick97

When you say they play Q's system, how does it mix or intermingle with what Samuelson teaches. I never read exactly how Q's system works. But it is not the same as it was earlier in his tenure here. Of course when a player is lazy or tired he may not fulfill his role in a particular shift. So yes there are variables like I just submitted which have to be considered relative to the success of the system - any system, really.

And while anyone who might respond to this inquiry, if you are up to it why not mention whom on the team you feel plays well/effort in the system. Space permitting you could even give them a grade with arrow trending up, down or stays the same as the season wears on and their defensive report may change.

I know Samuelson is more about specific way to play defense, the reaction time, playing at fast speed mesns sble yo mske plays at fast speed, keeping feet moving as dman moved from defense to offensive zone with/without puck. .....that is just one bit of what Samuelson teaches. Q is the architect of the overall system, correct?

I don't think it's so much the system as that it's 4 guys right now each with less than 100 games played under their belt. Defense takes time to master, and Qs system is a model for how the league plays now. hey are just not good or experienced enough yet. That's fine, it just sucks to watch them go from first place to not in the playoffs while the guys learn.
- JRoenick97

Bookmark this so it can be referenced when complaints arise on the board about lousy defensive effort or lacking ability among defensrmen. And while i too do not care to see Rutta and Forsling together, ask why Q had them as a pair relative to how he has deployed the other dmen. Lastly, i think i read that the idea of Oesterle with Keith - just one reason - is that Oesterle has the skating ability to cover when Keith takes chances.

This "Q system" argument is such nonsense. There is no great transition needed at the NHL in playing this system or that system. By this point the players are good enough to where they easily go from 1 system to another. See how easy it is for some guys to get traded and not miss a beat. What is Q's system? Wingers get low, move puck fast on breakouts? Big deal. Who the hell doesn't want to do that? What kind of forecheck system they do in the O-zone or N-Zone? Whether it's a 2-1-2, 1-2-2 or even something more similar to the trap, it's NOT hard to do it, it's not hard to know your job as F1, F2 or F3, etc. especially when you've played as much hockey as these guys have.

The difficulty isn't this nebulous system thing, but rather the speed of the game and chemistry on the ice. That's where young and/or new players may have more difficulty in assimilating and this is where I'd hope to see a better 2nd half of the season as Q gets the lines sorted out and younger/newer players find their niche on this team.

You are correct that it includes data no matter which position they were playing at the time.

Schmaltz - AA - Kane as a group at even strength had been pretty good and I think the Hawks would go back to that if they find someone else they are comfortable with playing C on line 3.
- breadbag

But then you need to move Saad somewhere - back to line 1 probably - which busts up a promising 12-19-91 situation.

This "Q system" argument is such nonsense. There is no great transition needed at the NHL in playing this system or that system. By this point the players are good enough to where they easily go from 1 system to another. See how easy it is for some guys to get traded and not miss a beat. What is Q's system? Wingers get low, move puck fast on breakouts? Big deal. Who the hell doesn't want to do that? What kind of forecheck system they do in the O-zone or N-Zone? Whether it's a 2-1-2, 1-2-2 or even something more similar to the trap, it's NOT hard to do it, it's not hard to know your job as F1, F2 or F3, etc. especially when you've played as much hockey as these guys have.

The difficulty isn't this nebulous system thing, but rather the speed of the game and chemistry on the ice. That's where young and/or new players may have more difficulty in assimilating and this is where I'd hope to see a better 2nd half of the season as Q gets the lines sorted out and younger/newer players find their niche on this team.
- kwolf68

There is man to man or zone coverage, defensively in our defensive zone. Some teams play a trap. Babcock in Detroit used the LW lock scheme. But yes I understand what you are saying.

But then you need to move Saad somewhere - back to line 1 probably - which busts up a promising 12-19-91 situation.
- StLBravesFan

It is a valid point. Personally, I wouldn't mind them sliding Saad down to line 3 as long as 12-19-91 play well. Saad hasn't exactly been stellar lately. He has (I think) 2 shots on goal since he joined line 2. 6 point total in his last 15 games.

the hawks get to play everybodys "favorite" team with the putrid uniforms and helmets...

a team they handled rather well in the regular season last year only to get tamed 1-6-1 since; an OT winner in early oct. at least they are done with this team for the year after this game

preds are playing extremely well again with great special teams and rinne good again...

the hawks can't dent rinne...preds know how to play and beat the hawks...

my humble speculation: same ole same ole....preds throttle the hawks in the neutral zone, get a break or mistake from the hawks and jump ahead and that will be it...

This "Q system" argument is such nonsense. There is no great transition needed at the NHL in playing this system or that system. By this point the players are good enough to where they easily go from 1 system to another. See how easy it is for some guys to get traded and not miss a beat. What is Q's system? Wingers get low, move puck fast on breakouts? Big deal. Who the hell doesn't want to do that? What kind of forecheck system they do in the O-zone or N-Zone? Whether it's a 2-1-2, 1-2-2 or even something more similar to the trap, it's NOT hard to do it, it's not hard to know your job as F1, F2 or F3, etc. especially when you've played as much hockey as these guys have.

The difficulty isn't this nebulous system thing, but rather the speed of the game and chemistry on the ice. That's where young and/or new players may have more difficulty in assimilating and this is where I'd hope to see a better 2nd half of the season as Q gets the lines sorted out and younger/newer players find their niche on this team.
- kwolf68

I wasn't saying Q's system" like it's some special thing, I was simply naming it his becaue it's his team. Young guys who have little to no experience need time to adjust to a defensive, or offensive, system. That's just a fact. Look at Duchene in Ottawa. He's a very talented veteran and it took him a couple weeks.

I wasn't using "Q's system" as an excuse, just a name. I could have called it Ulf's system, or the Hawks system, etc.

Big game tonight.

Let's see of that "switch turns on".

There's beem a lot of talk from the Hawks players and Coaches all year with nothing more than extremely frustrating and varying results from game-to-game.

There are a few more sellers coming on to the scene (MTL & DET the latest) so if the Hawks can't turn it around in these next few games, time for Stan to look at selling off any pieces that teams may want for a playoff run.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...on-draft-regret-rankings/

Wow Tallon really (frank)ed that up.

Big game tonight.

Let's see of that "switch turns on".

There's beem a lot of talk from the Hawks players and Coaches all year with nothing more than extremely frustrating and varying results from game-to-game.

There are a few more sellers coming on to the scene (MTL & DET the latest) so if the Hawks can't turn it around in these next few games, time for Stan to look at selling off any pieces that teams may want for a playoff run.
- Justin Lowe

Don't post here very often anymore, but some quick hits.

*You can post all the fancy stats you want (I'm not here to argue for or against their efficacy), but if you watch Toews and can't see a massive difference in his play then I'd like some of what you're smoking. Game in game out I see this guy losing board battles, coughing up the puck, and just generally not being the impact player he once was. When's the last time anyone has seen him make a strong power move to the net or overpower a defender with skill? It's a problem and at his salary level it's an even bigger problem.

*Kane still has game breaking talent and is the one guy I don't really worry about. He continues to plug along at a PPG pace and while he doesn't have a Panarin any more to probably inflate his totals a bit, I think he's been just fine.

*As has been discussed ad nauseam, Keith and Seabrook getting long in the tooth has started to show (Seabrook for a couple seasons). Without another true top pairing Dman on the team or in the pipeline this is probably one of the biggest factors in the Hawks decline.

At the end of the day though I'm not really angry. I feel like there's a lot of anger, hindsight and could have/should have. This run wasn't going to last forever. This team is a long shot to make the playoffs and if they do, does anyone really have any confidence that they can make some noise? The over-payments on contracts are definitely going to have an effect on how this team is able to compete/build for the future. Nothing is going to change that now though so best to just start identifying which young guys to build around and go from there.

The ride was fun while it lasted. I'm hoping I get to see another one in my lifetime.

Don't post here very often anymore, but some quick hits.

*You can post all the fancy stats you want (I'm not here to argue for or against their efficacy), but if you watch Toews and can't see a massive difference in his play then I'd like some of what you're smoking. Game in game out I see this guy losing board battles, coughing up the puck, and just generally not being the impact player he once was. When's the last time anyone has seen him make a strong power move to the net or overpower a defender with skill? It's a problem and at his salary level it's an even bigger problem.

*Kane still has game breaking talent and is the one guy I don't really worry about. He continues to plug along at a PPG pace and while he doesn't have a Panarin any more to probably inflate his totals a bit, I think he's been just fine.

*As has been discussed ad nauseam, Keith and Seabrook getting long in the tooth has started to show (Seabrook for a couple seasons). Without another true top pairing Dman on the team or in the pipeline this is probably one of the biggest factors in the Hawks decline.

At the end of the day though I'm not really angry. I feel like there's a lot of anger, hindsight and could have/should have. This run wasn't going to last forever. This team is a long shot to make the playoffs and if they do, does anyone really have any confidence that they can make some noise? The over-payments on contracts are definitely going to have an effect on how this team is able to compete/build for the future. Nothing is going to change that now though so best to just start identifying which young guys to build around and go from there.

The ride was fun while it lasted. I'm hoping I get to see another one in my lifetime.
- Coca

I don't think anyone is saying he's the same guy, but stats show he is being an effective player, albeit a different style than before. Guys age. He is adapting which is good. He's just not that dominant force anymore.

I found this on Chief Blackhawk Wikipedia page:

The Chicago Blackhawks of the National Hockey League indirectly derive their name from Black Hawk. Their first owner, Frederic McLaughlin, was a commander with the 333rd Machine Gun Battalion of the 86th Infantry Division during World War I, nicknamed the "Black Hawk Division" after the war leader. McLaughlin named the hockey team in honor of his military unit.
- matt_ahrens[57]

Wouldn't that be the tree turdy tree Battalion, my friend?

Wouldn't that be the tree turdy tree Battalion, my friend?
- Dieselhead

I hate that schtick, but this was a good use of it, nicely done.

Don't post here very often anymore, but some quick hits.

*You can post all the fancy stats you want (I'm not here to argue for or against their efficacy), but if you watch Toews and can't see a massive difference in his play then I'd like some of what you're smoking. Game in game out I see this guy losing board battles, coughing up the puck, and just generally not being the impact player he once was. When's the last time anyone has seen him make a strong power move to the net or overpower a defender with skill? It's a problem and at his salary level it's an even bigger problem.

*Kane still has game breaking talent and is the one guy I don't really worry about. He continues to plug along at a PPG pace and while he doesn't have a Panarin any more to probably inflate his totals a bit, I think he's been just fine.

*As has been discussed ad nauseam, Keith and Seabrook getting long in the tooth has started to show (Seabrook for a couple seasons). Without another true top pairing Dman on the team or in the pipeline this is probably one of the biggest factors in the Hawks decline.

At the end of the day though I'm not really angry. I feel like there's a lot of anger, hindsight and could have/should have. This run wasn't going to last forever. This team is a long shot to make the playoffs and if they do, does anyone really have any confidence that they can make some noise? The over-payments on contracts are definitely going to have an effect on how this team is able to compete/build for the future. Nothing is going to change that now though so best to just start identifying which young guys to build around and go from there.

The ride was fun while it lasted. I'm hoping I get to see another one in my lifetime.
- Coca

Interesting thought on Maroon. Guy is a lug, but he generally seems to be able to keep up both pace and production with more skilled players when he's put with them.

I have a feeling they crap themselves tonight too. Its typical of this season, after any type of break, they come out bad to start, then show some life with 5-6 minutes left in the 3rd leaving everyone wondering what took them so long.
- BlazinMike

I like Maroon. He is huge and not afraid to go to the net, has decent hands and is on a very affordable contract. He is a pending UFA so will quite likely be available at the TDL. Would he re-sign at a reasonable number? He would add what we currently lack up front.