Yes, but what are you trading to pick up those players? I'm not saying you can't get a combination of high point totals, but you aren't going to just pluck effective potentially underpaid assets for nothing. If you were drafting a fantasy roster and you can just pick and choose, it is one thing, but you'd likely have to trade Toews and then make 1 or 2 other deals. Then possibly sign other players to fill in the gaps for the parts you likely had to deal away.
- breadbag

I don't know, Toews + Hartman + Hinastrozza + Forsling + Jurco + bag of pucks + retain some salary .etc. to whomever. There are very few untouchables on this team right now in my opinion.

#SaveStan
- Stan_Bowman

Can Toews be great again, the question begs an answer.

Don't we all know or strongly suspect that he cannot ever be the same exact style as when he won three Cups!

Can he be still very good? What constitutes very good and how would he fit in. One center needs to be a driving offensive support. Another center has to be the solid defensive anchor. Probably Kampf who is evolving to that role. AA complicates things. Because he is a big center. Teams crave big size centers. But in order for Toews to be good here I say he needs to outplay the other team's #3 center. One tough boards type wing and one other wing who can score some. Sorry but that wing who scored some is Saad dropped down to third line.

Bowman and whomever the coach in years ahead cannot count on Toews consistency, henceforth third line

This way causes players like Toews and Saad to be hungry and to earn second offensive line. A new coach has to lay down the law. And the message is: Jonathan you aren't the same style player now. You fit in differently. You want #2 line then earn it. This has to be the way. And Bowman better draft or trade for a #1 line or #2 line capable tough player. Failing that, he is not rebuilding correct. He has enough soft skill players and a #1 to get the power forward he needs. Going to have to develop our own dmen; hopefully we keep both Forsling and Jokiharju. A bit iffy on Hartman. But Hartman < than a top scoring tough forward even if it is a green junior guy.

I don't know, Toews + Hartman + Hinastrozza + Forsling + Jurco + bag of pucks + retain some salary .etc. to whomever. There are very few untouchables on this team right now in my opinion.
- Murph76

Ooooorrrrrrrrr.......Stan and Q could leave the team alone and let them develop some natural chemistry? In retrospect, there's been significant roster turnover, is it really that surprising the team has under-performed?

I'd expect one more hockey trade to upgrade the defense, but otherwise I'd leave the team alone with the expectation that they improve organically like they did from 2011/2012 to 2012/2013.

I don't know, Toews + Hartman + Hinastrozza + Forsling + Jurco + bag of pucks + retain some salary .etc. to whomever. There are very few untouchables on this team right now in my opinion.
- Murph76

So you just want change for the sake of change then?

I know everything gets stale and has a shelf life, but i think it'd be a bad idea to trade toews with no back up plan.

Ooooorrrrrrrrr.......Stan and Q could leave the team alone and let them develop some natural chemistry? In retrospect, there's been significant roster turnover, is it really that surprising the team has under-performed?

I'd expect one more hockey trade to upgrade the defense, but otherwise I'd leave the team alone with the expectation that they improve organically like they did from 2011/2012 to 2012/2013.
- DarthKane

that jump that you mentioned it what I've had envisioned as well.

I go back and forth on it though, regarding if i want them to bust ass to make the playoffs or just keep trying out lines and if it doesn't work then that's better for a higher draft pick.

Playoffs for the young group would be good to get them experience, but the vets need rest, idfk

that jump that you mentioned it what I've had envisioned as well.

I go back and forth on it though, regarding if i want them to bust ass to make the playoffs or just keep trying out lines and if it doesn't work then that's better for a higher draft pick.

Playoffs for the young group would be good to get them experience, but the vets need rest, idfk
- BlazinMike

Something tells me Seabs works out this offseason like he never has before.

#SaveStan
- Stan_Bowman

#StanToo

Ooooorrrrrrrrr.......Stan and Q could leave the team alone and let them develop some natural chemistry? In retrospect, there's been significant roster turnover, is it really that surprising the team has under-performed?

I'd expect one more hockey trade to upgrade the defense, but otherwise I'd leave the team alone with the expectation that they improve organically like they did from 2011/2012 to 2012/2013.
- DarthKane

Ive pondered this and Darth does have a point.....when is the last 2 consecutive seasons that the Hawks have fielded almost the same team - sure makes it tough to get any type of cohesion. That being said, if the core was playing at an elite level, i could recommend this route...but clearly they are on the downside of things. What to do, what to do....

Ive pondered this and Darth does have a point.....when is the last 2 consecutive seasons that the Hawks have fielded almost the same team - sure makes it tough to get any type of cohesion. That being said, if the core was playing at an elite level, i could recommend this route...but clearly they are on the downside of things. What to do, what to do....
- glennjpawlak22

You cannot win in playoffs without the forward lines being tough. We have too many soft players. The bue line needs as much playing time and experience. Oesterle is not really the best type dman as his game is now, to pair with Keith. Young defensemen just need to play a lot and learn from mistakes, even in second and third years. Question arises if Jokiharju or others come along, how long will they need - a couple years to become dependable. It is a process team wide really. Toews role may change. A different coach needs to get more out of the team. Bowman: see Bruins make over ...A how to

Ive pondered this and Darth does have a point.....when is the last 2 consecutive seasons that the Hawks have fielded almost the same team - sure makes it tough to get any type of cohesion. That being said, if the core was playing at an elite level, i could recommend this route...but clearly they are on the downside of things. What to do, what to do....
- glennjpawlak22

Keeping the team intact next year is only part of the plan. I think the young guys would need to step up and take control of the team. Essentially, the team needs more games like the last one against Detroit.

In the long term, the team needs guys like Hinostroza, Sikura, Debrincat, Duclair, Schmaltz, Hartman and Hayden to lead the offense. Kane will continue to be the driving force offensively but these guys need to do most of the heavy lifting.

On defense Forsling, Murphy and Jokiharju need to lead the way. That's a big ask for Jokiharju as he may not be ready during this team's current window. Same could be said for Mitchell. I'm more worried about the future of the team's defense compared to their offense. That's why I think the team needs to make a hockey trade to upgrade. I think it will likely mean one of Hartman, Debrincat or Schmaltz is gone.

Ooooorrrrrrrrr.......Stan and Q could leave the team alone and let them develop some natural chemistry? In retrospect, there's been significant roster turnover, is it really that surprising the team has under-performed?

I'd expect one more hockey trade to upgrade the defense, but otherwise I'd leave the team alone with the expectation that they improve organically like they did from 2011/2012 to 2012/2013.
- DarthKane

AND with the understanding that there are 11 young players that presumably have not reached their full potential year - and who still must be evaluated before making a final decision about them:

deBrincat - 19 year old - 49 NHL games
DuClair - 22 years old - 196 NHL games, but all with a terrible Arizona franchise
Forsberg - 25 - 27 NHL games
Gustafsson - 25 - 45 NHL games
Hartman - 23 - 129 NHL games
Hinostroza - 23 - 75 NHL games
Jurco - 25 - 175 NHL games
Kampf - 23 - 14 NHL games
Murphy - 24 - 302 NHL games, again, all with a terrible Arizona team
Oesterle - 25 - 49 NHL games
Schmaltz - 21 - 106 NHL games
Hayden - 22 - 51 NHL games
Forsling - 21 - 79 NHL games

Only 7 of the above have the equivalent of a full season of NHL games (70 or more) - only 2 the equivalent of 2 NHL seasons.

Whether this squad makes the play-offs or not, I think the most important thing remaining to do is to see what there is internally.

that jump that you mentioned it what I've had envisioned as well.

I go back and forth on it though, regarding if i want them to bust ass to make the playoffs or just keep trying out lines and if it doesn't work then that's better for a higher draft pick.

Playoffs for the young group would be good to get them experience, but the vets need rest, idfk
- BlazinMike

They have only played one extra round in each of the last 2 Springs (7 games in 2016, 4 games in 2017), so not sure how much rest vets need in order to be "fully rested" and deemed ready to compete in the post season (and I say that sarcastically - they should be good to go... if not, then something is seriously wrong).

I may have bought into the "rest is needed" argument during seasons following a Cup win, given 4 rounds of playoff series into mid to late June... but they have had 2 consecutive seasons of basically full Summer's rest... so no, I will not accept that excuse this year.

Agree with the high draft pick thought, that is definitely enticing... but given the choice between the two, I take playoffs every single time, because once in, anything can happen.

Keeping the team intact next year is only part of the plan. I think the young guys would need to step up and take control of the team. Essentially, the team needs more games like the last one against Detroit.

In the long term, the team needs guys like Hinostroza, Sikura, Debrincat, Duclair, Schmaltz, Hartman and Hayden to lead the offense. Kane will continue to be the driving force offensively but these guys need to do most of the heavy lifting.

On defense Forsling, Murphy and Jokiharju need to lead the way. That's a big ask for Jokiharju as he may not be ready during this team's current window. Same could be said for Mitchell. I'm more worried about the future of the team's defense compared to their offense. That's why I think the team needs to make a hockey trade to upgrade. I think it will likely mean one of Hartman, Debrincat or Schmaltz is gone.
- DarthKane

Yes and yes very strongly so You are correct "i think it will likely mean one of Hartman, DeBrincat or Schmaltz is gone."

Yeah Mitchell only a collegiate freshman. As is B Hillman the tough son of a gun who one day I wonder could replace Seabrook. See how more prospects develop, eh

AND with the understanding that there are 11 young players that presumably have not reached their full potential year - and who still must be evaluated before making a final decision about them:

deBrincat - 19 year old - 49 NHL games
DuClair - 22 years old - 196 NHL games, but all with a terrible Arizona franchise
Forsberg - 25 - 27 NHL games
Gustafsson - 25 - 45 NHL games
Hartman - 23 - 129 NHL games
Hinostroza - 23 - 75 NHL games
Jurco - 25 - 175 NHL games
Kampf - 23 - 14 NHL games
Murphy - 24 - 302 NHL games, again, all with a terrible Arizona team
Oesterle - 25 - 49 NHL games
Schmaltz - 21 - 106 NHL games
Hayden - 22 - 51 NHL games
Forsling - 21 - 79 NHL games

Only 7 of the above have the equivalent of a full season of NHL games (70 or more) - only 2 the equivalent of 2 NHL seasons.

Whether this squad makes the play-offs or not, I think the most important thing remaining to do is to see what there is internally.
- StLBravesFan

Just pointing out a minor correction: Duclair played also with NYR.

Something tells me Seabs works out this offseason like he never has before.
- 35Tony0

Hmm....still bet he is compliance buy out or traded once the year arrives for agreement new collective bargaining contract. Seabrook can only improve his skating so much due to his style of skating. But maybe he could become slightly better next season

So you just want change for the sake of change then?

I know everything gets stale and has a shelf life, but i think it'd be a bad idea to trade toews with no back up plan.
- BlazinMike

No, I want change to make this team as good as possible (and eliminate all those not living up to their contracts if a value for value trade can be made) and yes there would have to be a backup in place before a Toews trade is made.

Hmm....still bet he is compliance buy out or traded once the year arrives for agreement new collective bargaining contract. Seabrook can only improve his skating so much due to his style of skating. But maybe he could become slightly better next season
- jhawk59

Assuming there is one.

Keeping the team intact next year is only part of the plan. I think the young guys would need to step up and take control of the team. Essentially, the team needs more games like the last one against Detroit.

In the long term, the team needs guys like Hinostroza, Sikura, Debrincat, Duclair, Schmaltz, Hartman and Hayden to lead the offense. Kane will continue to be the driving force offensively but these guys need to do most of the heavy lifting.

On defense Forsling, Murphy and Jokiharju need to lead the way. That's a big ask for Jokiharju as he may not be ready during this team's current window. Same could be said for Mitchell. I'm more worried about the future of the team's defense compared to their offense. That's why I think the team needs to make a hockey trade to upgrade. I think it will likely mean one of Hartman, Debrincat or Schmaltz is gone.
- DarthKane

I think you are right. I think at some point here they have to get some stability in terms of who is playing and where.

I'm not saying the Hawks will fire Q, but let's imagine they did fire him today.

Which team would pick him up as a coach? My guesses would be one of these 3.

Florida
Arizona
Vancouver

I'm not saying the Hawks will fire Q, but let's imagine they did fire him today.

Which team would pick him up as a coach? My guesses would be one of these 3.

Florida
Arizona
Vancouver
- breadbag

Where would Q want to go?

I'm not saying the Hawks will fire Q, but let's imagine they did fire him today.

Which team would pick him up as a coach? My guesses would be one of these 3.

Florida
Arizona
Vancouver
- breadbag

I'm sure the list of teams that would want Q would be much longer than this. I would wager that some teams (i.e. Winnipeg) would quickly fire their coach to bring on Q.

So does q scratch Sharp, bouma, Rutta again? I would guess Bouma and Rutta yes and 50/50 on Sharp or Wingels. I would stick with wingels. Also for forsburgs last 5 games only had 1 bad game. the other 4 he has given up 2 goals or less and has a .926 save in his last 5 games.

Where would Q want to go?
- glennjpawlak22

Arizona but only for a vacation. Not going to coach an unstable train wreck team although they do have lots of young talent

Keeping the team intact next year is only part of the plan. I think the young guys would need to step up and take control of the team. Essentially, the team needs more games like the last one against Detroit.

In the long term, the team needs guys like Hinostroza, Sikura, Debrincat, Duclair, Schmaltz, Hartman and Hayden to lead the offense. Kane will continue to be the driving force offensively but these guys need to do most of the heavy lifting.

On defense Forsling, Murphy and Jokiharju need to lead the way. That's a big ask for Jokiharju as he may not be ready during this team's current window. Same could be said for Mitchell. I'm more worried about the future of the team's defense compared to their offense. That's why I think the team needs to make a hockey trade to upgrade. I think it will likely mean one of Hartman, Debrincat or Schmaltz is gone.
- DarthKane

What about that Sinkula guy? Heard he was supposed to be really good, and tough!

Same lines in practice today. It looks like the RW spot is reserved for Sikura.

Blackhawks lines
DeBrincat-Toews-Duclair
Saad-Schmaltz-Kane
Hartman-Anisimov-Wingels
Hinostroza-Kampf-Jurco

— Scott Powers (@ByScottPowers) January 29, 2018