Hey Mike...my point wasn't to be classy, my point is that it CAN be done. All this talk of no one can be traded with a NMC is crap, teams can make it happen. So we keep a at best 2nd (perhaps even 3rd line) 10.5 million dollar center for sentimental values? Let see how well that works out. And you're saying that benching an under performing player would be a deterrence as far as trying to acquire a new player or re-sign new ones? I'm pretty sure that's not a new concept as Q does it weekly
- Murph76

Think its a bad look for the franchise if you strip the C, demote him, then start benching him all in short order.

He's still the best center in the organization right now. There's nothing sentimental about that either. Overpaid? Fine, yes. But it would be pretty crappy to knock him down like you're suggesting.

My point wasn't to be classy, my point is that it CAN be done. All this talk of no one can be traded with a NMC is crap, teams can make it happen. So we keep a at best 2nd (perhaps even 3rd line) 10.5 million dollar center for sentimental values? Let see how well that works out.
- Murph76

Your suggestion would have fit in nicely with the Hawks of the late 90's and early 2000 era. Great way to cause problems in the locker room and chase talent out of town.

This whole Toews is a 3rd liner is ridiculous. Toews production on the PP has been down, but in the big picture it isn't that much. His line has still be rock solid defensively against other team's top players. I'm not saying he is earning 10.5 million (nobody on the team is worth 10.5) but he is far from as bad as some are making it out to be.

Toews last 100 games (since his time on the shelve with injury) 31 goals 47 assists for 78 points. 24th among C in the span. Not ideal, but still in 1C territory and just 5-10 points out of good 1C territory. He has produced and played better when his wingers are engaged and going something. Saad hasn't exactly been on his game (he has pretty much done nothing when playing on other lines, including his recent couple games with Kane) and Panik did a lot of nothing for long stretches.

Toews is making more than he should but he'd also be very tough to replace. Even if he is only 80% of what he should be right now. Hawks would be in a better place if they had signed him to a more reasonable 7-8 million, but you can't argue with the success the team had thanks to Toews/Kane in the playoffs. That is where they earned the extra $$$.

Think its a bad look for the franchise if you strip the C, demote him, then start benching him all in short order.

He's still the best center in the organization right now. There's nothing sentimental about that either. Overpaid? Fine, yes. But it would be pretty crappy to knock him down like you're suggesting.
- BlazinMike

It doesn't have to be all at once, I'm just saying how long do we keep paying him 10.5 Mil to be an average center (best on our team currently or not)? For the next 4 years? Schmaltz is already almost as good as he is and this is his rookie year. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll retire early.

What is the story with Keith's knee issues? That is a key piece of info when it comes to assessing his trade value and whether or not to move him. I'm sure there is general knowledge on how players perform after the operations he has had, at his age, also. We can talk about trading him and what do we get for him, but we also have to know that variable and its ramifications.
- 333inthe3rd

He's still got jump and can keep up with the fastest guys in the league (he did with McDavid early this year). I think his knees are fine.

Your suggestion would have fit in nicely with the Hawks of the late 90's and early 2000 era. Great way to cause problems in the locker room and chase talent out of town.

This whole Toews is a 3rd liner is ridiculous. Toews production on the PP has been down, but in the big picture it isn't that much. His line has still be rock solid defensively against other team's top players. I'm not saying he is earning 10.5 million (nobody on the team is worth 10.5) but he is far from as bad as some are making it out to be.

Toews last 100 games (since his time on the shelve with injury) 31 goals 47 assists for 78 points. 24th among C in the span. Not ideal, but still in 1C territory and just 5-10 points out of good 1C territory. He has produced and played better when his wingers are engaged and going something. Saad hasn't exactly been on his game (he has pretty much done nothing when playing on other lines, including his recent couple games with Kane) and Panik did a lot of nothing for long stretches.

Toews is making more than he should but he'd also be very tough to replace. Even if he is only 80% of what he should be right now. Hawks would be in a better place if they had signed him to a more reasonable 7-8 million, but you can't argue with the success the team had thanks to Toews/Kane in the playoffs. That is where they earned the extra $$$.
- breadbag

Right, we're paying him based on his past performance. Are you saying two 5.1 million dollar players can't put up his point totals and defend against other teams's top lines? Please. Bringing Saad back was supposed to be the cure all since he couldn't play with Panik. Now that that's not working out, we clearly see Toews needs other people to make him better . Kanes does not and is worth every penny of that 10.5 Mil. AND Seabrook took a seat, why can't Toews? I think MGMT needs to stop coddling the "CORE".

That is a good evaluation. The longer you wait to move AA, the older and perhaps less value attached to him so the return is less. Even with Kampf emergence trading AA leaves a hole at center. Highmore might be a useful player, but when scouts are still divide in him, e.g. his talent, then it appears he has more value for his heart, his hustle, his grit .....around the net a lot than his talent

Over the weekend Bill wiz sent me his impression of Mitchell and Hillman. He saw a couple of games in person. I personally do not see much immediate help in the system, although some defensemen could break through and become better than some of the rag tag bunch currently in the mix

I would wish upon moving up in round one. Only can hope Bowman pulls it off. Top choices are more likely to become core players. And duh we need a good many influx of players who have grit, will battle along boards. With Sikura we surely will have at least one too many soft players, albeit skill guys. You have to include Toews in that group due to his inconsistency.

I do not imagine they trade Toews ever but Blazing Mike it COULD work out for the best as Murphy comments suggest.

Alright due to lengthy appearing comments i am going to highligh some of wiz remarks immediately below in another blog entry. Bill said to go ahead and relay to the board if I want to. He is very busy. For those who do not know, wiz is the authority on the draft. His accuracy us bar none. He spends countless hours breaking down & studying tape. He has been copied by others; Bob McKenzie pales to him Wiz has compiled a draft report since the mid 80's maybe longer I will ask him sometime how long. Go to draftsite.com for his current review

It doesn't have to be all at once, I'm just saying how long do we keep paying him 10.5 Mil to be an average center (best on our team currently or not)? For the next 4 years? Schmaltz is already almost as good as he is and this is his rookie year. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll retire early.
- Murph76

I know Toews has been under-performing but all this talk of stripping him of the captaincy (and Seabrook of the alternate captaincy) is just crazy. They are the leaders on the team, letters on their jersey or not. There is an argument to be made about making Kane an alternate captain, I say great, go for it. But that doesn't mean the team needs to remove the A from anyone else.

Schmaltz is having a great season but he's far from being as good as Toews. I'm super excited about #8's potential, I think he will be the best out of all the young forwards. But it's a little premature to say he's almost as good as Toews.

I don't want to trade Toews and I don't want him to retire early. I want him to figure out what's holding him back and work through whatever he needs to. Keep in mind that Toews will likely cap out at around 70 points (best case) due to his defensive responsibilities. The team needs to get him some help and acquire another defensive centre who can take draws and be the primary option on the PK. The less Toews has to worry about being the only defensive centre the more he can focus on the offensive side of this game.

https://theathletic.com/2...e-blackhawks-this-season/

This article does a great job of breaking down the Hawks struggles and successes this season. A few excerpts:

"The Blackhawks are a very odd team to break down because of how extreme they are at both ends. Offensively, they are carrying the puck in at an astounding 59.4 percent, so for every 10 entries, nearly six are with control of the puck. For context, this is the highest carry-in rate I have ever seen any team post through any point of the season. There are only six teams in the league that are currently carrying the puck in on over 50 percent of their entries and the Blackhawks are one of two teams to have a carry-in rate over 55 percent, the other team being the Colorado Avalanche."

"On the flipside, their neutral zone defense is among the worst in the league. Only the Pittsburgh Penguins are allowing a higher rate of their opponent’s entries to be carried in and it’s by far one of the highest opposing carry-in percentages I have ever tracked in my four seasons studying neutral zone play. It’s an interesting dynamic because one would think the Blackhawks' offense should mitigate some of this."

"This could suggest that they’ve struggled to make the most of their opportunities on the rush or create much sustained offense. The fact they lead the league in offensive zone faceoffs (according to Corsica.Hockey) could shed some light on this too. It’s possible their concern is to get a shot on goal and work from plays off the faceoffs."

"They’re one of the worst teams in the league at preventing high-danger passing plays (plays that cross the slot or come from behind the net). The first chart in this article showed that they’ve also been poor at preventing other teams from carrying the puck in and it’s pretty clear to see how the two are connected. Allowing that many carry-ins opens the door for things like odd-man rushes, cross-seam passes and anything else that’s a nightmare for goaltenders to deal with. The Blackhawks have been getting burned by these all season. The entire team is responsible for defense, but when placed into 1-on-1 situations, just about everyone on the Blackhawks blue line has struggled to stop the play."

"There’s a saying in hockey about the best defense being an offense that can control the puck. It’s not a bad strategy for the Blackhawks to emulate with their forwards being very dangerous and their defense corps being in flux. The only problem is that it’s not always a realistic strategy in the NHL, especially against the quicker and more skilled teams. The Blackhawks defense hasn’t played well this year, but this might be one area where it’s not completely on them. The Blackhawks want to maximize their time with the puck and while there’s nothing wrong with that, their defense tends to get put in some bad spots after one mistake."

I know Toews has been under-performing but all this talk of stripping him of the captaincy (and Seabrook of the alternate captaincy) is just crazy. They are the leaders on the team, letters on their jersey or not. There is an argument to be made about making Kane an alternate captain, I say great, go for it. But that doesn't mean the team needs to remove the A from anyone else.

Schmaltz is having a great season but he's far from being as good as Toews. I'm super excited about #8's potential, I think he will be the best out of all the young forwards. But it's a little premature to say he's almost as good as Toews.

- DarthKane

I don't want to trade Toews and I don't want him to retire early. I want him to figure out what's holding him back and work through whatever he needs to.

Keep in mind that Toews will likely cap out at around 70 points (best case) due to his defensive responsibilities. The team needs to get him some help and acquire another defensive centre who can take draws and be the primary option on the PK. The less Toews has to worry about being the only defensive centre the more he can focus on the offensive side of this game.

Hey Darth, look...I don't necessarily WANT to trade Toews or for him to retire for that matter, as long as he turns his game around (and quickly)! I hold no ill will for the guy, but he is overpaid and under performing and that will ultimately handicap the crap out of this team for the next 4 years if he doesn't right his ship/the CAP increase at a decent amount.

Justin winning 2 out of 3 for the rest of the season might do it, but look at the last 10 or 12 games and ask yourself is this a team that can put on that type of a winning streak against that lineup of games?

I for one don't see it happening.

Keith to the Rangers for Hayes and a 2nd? good trade for both teams
- weakglovehand

There's no way Keith is moved for that. But I'm sure Bowman would ask for less, based on his other great moves. This is the bigger concern based on Stan's track record over the last several seasons is that he'll get taken to the woodshed again by whichever GM takes him there.

And as I've been mentioning he still owes the Habs the Hawks 2nd rounder from the Danault fiasco.

On a side note good to see Wes McCauley call an offside in an Allstar game yesterday after he blew two of them in game 7 against the Kings which both went for goals and cost the Hawks another Cup. Wes is the Hue Hollins of the NHL - what a clown.

Right, we're paying him based on his past performance. Are you saying two 5.1 million dollar players can't put up his point totals and defend against other teams's top lines? Please. Bringing Saad back was supposed to be the cure all since he couldn't play with Panik. Now that that's not working out, we clearly see Toews needs other people to make him better . Kanes does not and is worth every penny of that 10.5 Mil. AND Seabrook took a seat, why can't Toews? I think MGMT needs to stop coddling the "CORE".
- Murph76

Where are you going to get this two 5.1 million dollar players and will either be a viable replacement? I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it isn't easy. Toews might be making 2-3 million more than he should but replacing him isn't simple. Schmaltz for example, can do some things really well, but you don't have him going up against the top players from the other team. His line struggles defensively enough as it is without that assignment. I think Saad coming back had more to do with Hossa leaving, but even so, he just hasn't been at the top of his game, even away from Toews (where Saad's numbers drop).

The Hawks can restructure the team if they move someone like Toews, but they either have to move other parts to try and get low cost players back or they'd have to pay full market price for some UFA.

Seabook's struggles has been greater and his contract unfortunately even scarier, but two different situations IMO. He has played more aggressively and a bit better since he was benched, but I don't see the Hawks benching Toews and stripping him of the C. Toews knows what he needs to do and he is coming off a very solid couple games vs Toronto and Detroit.

https://theathletic.com/224972/2018/01/29/tracking-the-hawks-neutral-zone-an-odd-area-for-the-blackhawks-this-season/

This article does a great job of breaking down the Hawks struggles and successes this season. A few excerpts:

"The Blackhawks are a very odd team to break down because of how extreme they are at both ends. Offensively, they are carrying the puck in at an astounding 59.4 percent, so for every 10 entries, nearly six are with control of the puck. For context, this is the highest carry-in rate I have ever seen any team post through any point of the season. There are only six teams in the league that are currently carrying the puck in on over 50 percent of their entries and the Blackhawks are one of two teams to have a carry-in rate over 55 percent, the other team being the Colorado Avalanche."

"On the flipside, their neutral zone defense is among the worst in the league. Only the Pittsburgh Penguins are allowing a higher rate of their opponent’s entries to be carried in and it’s by far one of the highest opposing carry-in percentages I have ever tracked in my four seasons studying neutral zone play. It’s an interesting dynamic because one would think the Blackhawks' offense should mitigate some of this."

"This could suggest that they’ve struggled to make the most of their opportunities on the rush or create much sustained offense. The fact they lead the league in offensive zone faceoffs (according to Corsica.Hockey) could shed some light on this too. It’s possible their concern is to get a shot on goal and work from plays off the faceoffs."

"They’re one of the worst teams in the league at preventing high-danger passing plays (plays that cross the slot or come from behind the net). The first chart in this article showed that they’ve also been poor at preventing other teams from carrying the puck in and it’s pretty clear to see how the two are connected. Allowing that many carry-ins opens the door for things like odd-man rushes, cross-seam passes and anything else that’s a nightmare for goaltenders to deal with. The Blackhawks have been getting burned by these all season. The entire team is responsible for defense, but when placed into 1-on-1 situations, just about everyone on the Blackhawks blue line has struggled to stop the play."

"There’s a saying in hockey about the best defense being an offense that can control the puck. It’s not a bad strategy for the Blackhawks to emulate with their forwards being very dangerous and their defense corps being in flux. The only problem is that it’s not always a realistic strategy in the NHL, especially against the quicker and more skilled teams. The Blackhawks defense hasn’t played well this year, but this might be one area where it’s not completely on them. The Blackhawks want to maximize their time with the puck and while there’s nothing wrong with that, their defense tends to get put in some bad spots after one mistake."
- JRoenick97

This is pretty much spot on. I don't think they can win anything until they can get the defensive side of the house under control. I don't think teams who try to outscore their weak D win anything in this league.

Where are you going to get this two 5.1 million dollar players and will either be a viable replacement? I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it isn't easy. Toews might be making 2-3 million more than he should but replacing him isn't simple. Schmaltz for example, can do some things really well, but you don't have him going up against the top players from the other team. His line struggles defensively enough as it is without that assignment. I think Saad coming back had more to do with Hossa leaving, but even so, he just hasn't been at the top of his game, even away from Toews (where Saad's numbers drop).

The Hawks can restructure the team if they move someone like Toews, but they either have to move other parts to try and get low cost players back or they'd have to pay full market price for some UFA.

Seabook's struggles has been greater and his contract unfortunately even scarier, but two different situations IMO. He has played more aggressively and a bit better since he was benched, but I don't see the Hawks benching Toews and stripping him of the C. Toews knows what he needs to do and he is coming off a very solid couple games vs Toronto and Detroit.
- breadbag

That's true now and going forward, IMHO. If the CBA gets reopened and compliance buyouts become a thing, I could see the Blackhawks going down that road with Seabrook unless next year is significantly better than this one, which is doubtful. But with Toews, yes, he's overpaid, but he is still good. Not as great as he was, but definitely good, and does a lot for this team. I think he will have a better year next season. Maybe they trade him eventually, but to do that any time soon would require sweeteners and/or taking back a bad contract or two; too great a cost, better off keeping him. My guess is that he, Kane, and Keith will survive the retooling / rebuilding and be here for the Blackhawks reboot too.

Where are you going to get this two 5.1 million dollar players and will either be a viable replacement? I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it isn't easy. Toews might be making 2-3 million more than he should but replacing him isn't simple. Schmaltz for example, can do some things really well, but you don't have him going up against the top players from the other team. His line struggles defensively enough as it is without that assignment. I think Saad coming back had more to do with Hossa leaving, but even so, he just hasn't been at the top of his game, even away from Toews (where Saad's numbers drop).

The Hawks can restructure the team if they move someone like Toews, but they either have to move other parts to try and get low cost players back or they'd have to pay full market price for some UFA.

Seabook's struggles has been greater and his contract unfortunately even scarier, but two different situations IMO. He has played more aggressively and a bit better since he was benched, but I don't see the Hawks benching Toews and stripping him of the C. Toews knows what he needs to do and he is coming off a very solid couple games vs Toronto and Detroit.
- breadbag

This obviously wouldn't happen but:
1. Eric Staal (Center) from the Wild (makes 3.5 Mil for the next 2 years) already has 43 points in 49 games).
2. Tyler Seguin (can play Center or RW) from the Stars (makes 5.75 Mil for the next 2 seasons) already has 43 points in 50 games.

Cap savings of roughly 1 mil and double to point production between the 2 over Toews. AGAIN...not saying it would happen but it's possible.

This obviously wouldn't happen but:
1. Eric Staal (Center) from the Wild (makes 3.5 Mil for the next 2 years) already has 43 points in 49 games).
2. Tyler Seguin (can play Center or RW) from the Stars (makes 5.75 Mil for the next 2 seasons) already has 43 points in 50 games.

Cap savings of roughly 1 mil and double to point production between the 2 over Toews. AGAIN...not saying it would happen but it's possible.
- Murph76

That is Seguin's second contract which is comparable to Toews second one. Seguin is gonna get 8-9m+ next deal.

That is Seguin's second contract which is comparable to Toews second one. Seguin is gonna get 8-9m+ next deal.
- JRoenick97

Hence the not gonna happen, my point was you can get better than Toews current value + point production for less expensive players (at this point in their contracts at least) .

The thing with Toews is that there is nobody here WANTS to trade Toews. We all just want him to be the guy we all knew and loved from 2008-2015. It is an objective fact that he is NOT that guy and has not been for 2+ seasons now. When 88+19 and even 7 signed those deals, everyone (Bowman included) knew there would be a regression and at one point in those deals, they would not be performing up to the Cap Hit standards. With both 19 + 7, that time has come several years too soon. BreadBag has commented on 19's point totals, which appparently are only slightly off his career pace. Stats don't lie, so fair point. However, it is not just the point totals, but the impact on the ice shift in and shift out. Toews was a guy who dominated the puck, created plays, all while winning 60% of his faceoffs and playing tough defense. With a few exceptions once or twice a month, Toews is NOT a dominant player, but just an above average one. Mike Milbury sees it, Keith Jones sees it, and the guys at NBC are FINALLY calling out 19 for not being the same guy he was when the Hawks were a great team. Toews cannot just rack up points with empty nets and against bottom dwellers, he needs to be dominant against the Central and West, which he has been far from. If the Hawks want any chance of sniffing the playoffs and another cup in the next decade, then they have to #MakeToewsGreatAgain

That is Seguin's second contract which is comparable to Toews second one. Seguin is gonna get 8-9m+ next deal.
- JRoenick97

Steve Yzerman learned from Bowman's mistakes. Stamkos and Hedman could have each gotten $10.5mil++ on the open market.

Granted...their logo is bad, but does this foreshadow changes to the Blackhawks logo?

BREAKING: Cleveland Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from game jerseys and caps, starting in 2019 season

— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) January 29, 2018

I like (and agree) with Letang's assessment (as obvious as it may be).

The 23-10 approximation for the playoffs is not doable without a healthy Crow playing at peak level.

Even then, others would have to also step up their game to performances reminiscent of past success.

However, and this is completely dependent on all of the above coming to fruition, but if it were to happen, the ironic part is that this team has the capability and championship pedigree to pull off a stunner and do something miraculous.

Is it likely? Probably not. Will I be cheering for it? Damn straight I will be!

The thing with Toews is that there is nobody here WANTS to trade Toews. We all just want him to be the guy we all knew and loved from 2008-2015. It is an objective fact that he is NOT that guy and has not been for 2+ seasons now. When 88+19 and even 7 signed those deals, everyone (Bowman included) knew there would be a regression and at one point in those deals, they would not be performing up to the Cap Hit standards. With both 19 + 7, that time has come several years too soon. BreadBag has commented on 19's point totals, which appparently are only slightly off his career pace. Stats don't lie, so fair point. However, it is not just the point totals, but the impact on the ice shift in and shift out. Toews was a guy who dominated the puck, created plays, all while winning 60% of his faceoffs and playing tough defense. With a few exceptions once or twice a month, Toews is NOT a dominant player, but just an above average one. Mike Milbury sees it, Keith Jones sees it, and the guys at NBC are FINALLY calling out 19 for not being the same guy he was when the Hawks were a great team. Toews cannot just rack up points with empty nets and against bottom dwellers, he needs to be dominant against the Central and West, which he has been far from. If the Hawks want any chance of sniffing the playoffs and another cup in the next decade, then they have to #MakeToewsGreatAgain
- EnzoD

And on cue (as always) comes in my brother Enzo to validate my point once again, it's like we have the Dionne Warwick Psychic Connection or something

Granted...their logo is bad, but does this foreshadow changes to the Blackhawks logo?

BREAKING: Cleveland Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from game jerseys and caps, starting in 2019 season

— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) January 29, 2018

- DarthKane

As long as an overtly racist moniker like "Redskins" are still a team, the Hawks are far from in danger IMO. Additionally, I truly believe that the Blackhawks honor Chief Blackhawk both with a realistic logo, and incorporating Native Americans into the organization (pregame, ect).

I like (and agree) with Letang's assessment (as obvious as it may be).

The 23-10 approximation for the playoffs is not doable without a healthy Crow playing at peak level.

Even then, others would have to also step up their game to performances reminiscent of past success.

However, and this is completely dependent on all of the above coming to fruition, but if it were to happen, the ironic part is that this team has the capability and championship pedigree to pull off a stunner and do something miraculous.

Is it likely? Probably not. Will I be cheering for it? Damn straight I will be!
- Katana777

If (and this is a big IF) the Hawks make the playoffs they will be a force to be reckoned. They would have to be playing fantastic hockey and hopefully that carries forward to the post season.

Granted...their logo is bad, but does this foreshadow changes to the Blackhawks logo?

BREAKING: Cleveland Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from game jerseys and caps, starting in 2019 season

— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) January 29, 2018

- DarthKane

I hope not. For one, the Blackhawks logo is clearly honoring a particular tribe within an ethnic or racial community, and therefore should never be seen as distasteful or politically incorrect.

I personally do not even feel that way about the Cleveland MLB logo, but being that it is a caricature of sorts, it lends itself to criticism from sensitive (see snowflakes) viewpoints.

As long as an overtly racist moniker like "Redskins" are still a team, the Hawks are far from in danger. Additionally, I truly believe that the Blackhawks honor Chief Blackhawk both with a realistic logo, and incorporating Native Americans into the organization (pregame, ect).
- EnzoD

I agree, of all the sports teams with Native Canadian/American nicknames and logos the Blackhawks will be the last to change. Over the years I've spoken with a bunch of people with Native Canadian background and not one ever had an issue with, in fact it was quite the opposite. They cheered for the Blackhawks because of their logo and name. I have even been stopped on the street and in restaurants by Native Canadians and they've only every had positive things to say.

That being said, in today's day and age everyone is offended by everything so it will only be a matter of time before serious pressure is put on the Hawks to make a change. I don't think they'll change their name, but I think one day they'll change their logo (which is sad).