I think this is the most important problem these younger teams are having right now. McDavid got 12.5m. Draisaitl got 8.5, Matthews will get 10+. That is killing teams cap space before they have even won anything. Sure, Toews and Kane got 10.5m, but that was AFTER 3 cups. Their 2nd deals were 6.3m per year. Seabrooks and Keiths were around that also (Keith's still is). Taking 10m+ now is a bigger chunk of the cap that 6.3 was then. That's why we won't see any of these young teams grabbing multiple cups. GMs handing out giant contracts.

EDIT: As far as Draisaitls deal goes, it's on par with the Kane and Toews second deals as far as cap percentage goes. Is he a Kane and or Toews at that age? Hard to know at this point.
- JRoenick97

I think this is the new operating model in the NHL. One or two very highly paid stars on long term contracts, 2 to 4 highly paid stars ($5 mil to $7 mil) on moderate to long contracts, about $8 mil in goaltenders with the starter on a medium to long term contracts) , 6 players at about $1mil (or less) and the remaining on bridge deals in the $2 mil to $4 mil range. Teams that make the right contract decisions will do well. Other teams will be stuck for a while or have to have some surprises (like lower round picks or cheap free agents turning into stars). I am not ready to say the Hawks are stuck just yet. I would like them to basically keep this team together for another year with Bowman, Q and Ulfie and see if the younger guys sink or swim.

@JayZawaski670

It's taken longer than I would like, but I can confirm @MarkLazerus's report that Corey Crawford has indeed been dealing with vertigo. The injury is legit. There is no "conspiracy" or "hiding" of some other issue.
- walleyeb1

Of course there is a conspiracy, they're just trying to cover it up.

Good thoughts.

I think the other thing that's killing the Hawks--and has been for a long time--is the cute/forced passing.

Dude. When you're not scoring, your mindset should be get anything to the net. Monday's game against the Lightning was maddening at some points. Guys with prime shooting opportunities and just looking to force a pass instead.

Brutal...
- Hank3Henshaw

I basically agree. One other thing I noticed. In the past I always thought the Hawk forwards were the best in the league at receiving passes. But now there are a lot of good passes that are bouncing off their sticks. I relate some of that to tension and gripping the stick to tight. They are so anxious to do something with it the puck is like a hot potato or a hand grenade. In the games where they get on a roll their confidence grows, they seem to relax and it does not seem to be an issue. (Like the Winnipeg game a few weeks back where the Hawks looked great.)

Of course there is a conspiracy, they're just trying to cover it up.
- DarthKane

Classic. One of your best!

Stan should trade for David Warsofsky, he'd be a fine addition to the blue line.

Of course there is a conspiracy, they're just trying to cover it up.
- DarthKane

ty

we might see how this plays out. If AZ is looking to move Hammer, than the leafs should be in on him. he could be a good player for our top 4.
- Tumbleweed

We've had a couple of good exchanges today. I'd be interested to know if you were Uncle Lou what you would give up to get Hammer from Arizona in trade.

5min that burst them toward the cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt2Lg25SQFk
- bogiedoc

Thanks bogie....... great memory !!

And what's great about both of those 2 goals is that they were scored in FRONT OF THE NET as tap ins.......which we rarely ever see anymore. Even Duncan Keith was in front of the net in the offensive zone on Kane's goal. He probably hasn't been that far down low since. Now....... this team continually goes to the boards in the O zone repeatedly. Our point men rather throw the puck behind the net instead of just getting it to the crease area....that's where puck luck takes place....but obviously again....we need net front presence !!

We've had a couple of good exchanges today. I'd be interested to know if you were Uncle Lou what you would give up to get Hammer from Arizona in trade.
- RickJ

i wonder if straight up it would be gardiner for hammer. balance out with a pick as you see fit.


if it's futures, then a 3-piece package. maybe something like bracco, carrick and a pick. i would hate to give up the 1st, but you would probably have to.

I am not one to throw crap out there, but I would love to see Hawks deal Keith to Toronto and build around a Nylander+picks/prospects return.

Ive come to realize the realistic chance at another cup is closed. You sell high when you can and move along. Pick your key building blocks and move forward. You make 20-8-88 your top offensive line, slide 19 down where he belongs and maybe paired with 12 and Nylander he can produce. You also dangle 15 and see if you can acquire more picks and free up cap room.

The window to win was going to close at some point and it was blast the last 10 years watching this team morph into a powerhouse. You never see the end coming but it's Bowman's job now to maximize return on the assets he can trade and not retain salary on and with 7/19 you eat salary. 88 is a generational talent and you keep him UNLESS he wants to go....and maybe in the twilight he goes home to Buffalo and plays with Eichel but not now....

I'm not angry....I'm not upset, I just have accepted the inevitable. Making the playoffs does nothing They aren't beating Nashville. They would be waxed and the only thing left to do is watch to see if McDonough's work the last 10 years of building the casual Chicago fan into a Hawks fan has staying power as the corporate suite ights will dim out with the new tax plan and Wirtz will want to push across price increases to his "regular fan" as much as he can.

I will say the demise of 19 has been alarming. We know now it's not just lack of players they brought Saad in and 19's killed his s production as well.
- SteveRain

IMO selling high would be trading Kane, and probably Saad too.

With your plan you're only going like halfway, and there's no point in that.

Might as well trade the best pieces we have. A package centered around Kane would land a MASSIVE return.

Toews probably can't be moved, but if possible try to do so as well.

Who cares what the top scoring line is at that point, we can stock pile the prospects and cheap rookie contracts and become elite within a few years(or at least that's the idea).

I agree with moving Keith and Anisimov. But if thats the route we're going....if that's the plan of attack....then we might as well move the best of the best we have, no?

Thanks bogie....... great memory !!

And what's great about both of those 2 goals is that they were scored in FRONT OF THE NET as tap ins.......which we rarely ever see anymore. Even Duncan Keith was in front of the net in the offensive zone on Kane's goal. He probably hasn't been that far down low since. Now....... this team continually goes to the boards in the O zone repeatedly. Our point men rather throw the puck behind the net instead of just getting it to the crease area....that's where puck luck takes place....but obviously again....we need net front presence !!
- Hawkytalk

Noticed the same exact thing when I watched. Granted we were in desperation mode, that kind of stuff used to be fairly common. Nowadays none of the young D will do it out of fear of being benched.

There's an interesting tidbit comparing the Hawks and Leafs on today's Hockey Central at Noon show: https://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon
Skip to 20:25

They don't blame Q and Stan at all, which I don't really agree with. But it's interesting to hear Toronto guys chime in.

i wonder if straight up it would be gardiner for hammer. balance out with a pick as you see fit.


if it's futures, then a 3-piece package. maybe something like bracco, carrick and a pick. i would hate to give up the 1st, but you would probably have to.
- Tumbleweed

Thanks for weighing in Tumbleweed.

Agree that Hammer for Nylander would have been too much for the Leafs to give up. If it was an option it would have happened as Stan most certainly would have put a call out to Lou. They were/are a perfect trade partner.

In saying that, I have a lot of friends who are Leafs fans. I've mentioned numerous times, if Hammer can get healthy in time, he's a perfect fit for the Leafs. He's a warrior and a true leader, the Leafs would be super happy to insert him into their dressing room for a long playoff run.

It almost seems inevitable that Garidner will be playing on another team in a couple years, eh?

The guy has a ton of talent but is very prone to mistakes to catch the ere of NHL coaches.

i wonder if straight up it would be gardiner for hammer. balance out with a pick as you see fit.


if it's futures, then a 3-piece package. maybe something like bracco, carrick and a pick. i would hate to give up the 1st, but you would probably have to.
- Tumbleweed

That deal would be a wash on salary and contract length so not a bad offer. But Arizona brought Hammer in for a reason to help with their young kids. Chayka would ask for more than Gardiner to give him up, maybe Bracco or even Calvin Pickard because they don't have much depth in goal.

But the problem the Leafs would have is that Hammer would be a very hot commodity at the TDL. Somebody like Tampa looking for depth behind Hedman and Stralman would be all over Hammer with youth to offer that they can afford to give up.

Thanks for weighing in Tumbleweed.

Agree that Hammer for Nylander would have been too much for the Leafs to give up. If it was an option it would have happened as Stan most certainly would have put a call out to Lou. They were/are a perfect trade partner.

In saying that, I have a lot of friends who are Leafs fans. I've mentioned numerous times, if Hammer can get healthy in time, he's a perfect fit for the Leafs. He's a warrior and a true leader, the Leafs would be super happy to insert him into their dressing room for a long playoff run.

It almost seems inevitable that Garidner will be playing on another team in a couple years, eh?

The guy has a ton of talent but is very prone to mistakes to catch the ere of NHL coaches.
- Justin Lowe

seems like it. we have other LHD that may push him out eventually imo.

did hammer ever play the right-side? it would be more enticing for us if we could slot him in there comfortably.

Same line up tonight??

That deal would be a wash on salary and contract length so not a bad offer. But Arizona brought Hammer in for a reason to help with their young kids. Chayka would ask for more than Gardiner to give him up, maybe Bracco or even Calvin Pickard because they don't have much depth in goal.

But the problem the Leafs would have is that Hammer would be a very hot commodity at the TDL. Somebody like Tampa looking for depth behind Hedman and Stralman would be all over Hammer with youth to offer that they can afford to give up.
- RickJ

gardiner is tough one. i think he does a lot good, despite the semi-occasional gaff. so the leafs may value him highly and want the extra piece from AZ.

i'm not sure if the rest of the league does though. so you may be right on AZ wanting the add.

could be a situation where the teams don't agree on value and that trade falls apart.

yeah, AZ may get a bidding war going. if the price is higher than a 1st, bracco and carrick, the leafs are probably better off looking at a cheaper one year option like gudbranson.

IMO selling high would be trading Kane, and probably Saad too.

With your plan you're only going like halfway, and there's no point in that.

Might as well trade the best pieces we have. A package centered around Kane would land a MASSIVE return.

Toews probably can't be moved, but if possible try to do so as well.

Who cares what the top scoring line is at that point, we can stock pile the prospects and cheap rookie contracts and become elite within a few years(or at least that's the idea).

Kane is the one guy I would be reluctant to trade. he's driven, he's getting better each year, and he could play for a long time. With all "the tough minutes" others have played you never see Kane regress even when double shifted throughout the year. His physical training has to be off the charts. I giggled at the poster ripping this guy as young kane not back checking, etc....sure.......now? NO. He back checks and he's one of the only, IF ONLY, Hawk to show up night in and night out.

I'd keep that line I mentioned d, and rebuild on the fly. If Toews deal could be moved without retaining salary, I'd do it in a second. Same with Seabrook.

None of this will happen, and it will be all scripted talking points come lockeroom cleanout day at seasons end.
I agree with moving Keith and Anisimov. But if thats the route we're going....if that's the plan of attack....then we might as well move the best of the best we have, no?
- SimpleJack

gardiner is tough one. i think he does a lot good, despite the semi-occasional gaff. so the leafs may value him highly and want the extra piece from AZ.

i'm not sure if the rest of the league does though. so you may be right on AZ wanting the add.

could be a situation where the teams don't agree on value and that trade falls apart.

yeah, AZ may get a bidding war going. if the price is higher than a 1st, bracco and carrick, the leafs are probably better off looking at a cheaper one year option like gudbranson.
- Tumbleweed

So you would give those 3 pieces up for Hammer but you didn't like my mock trade idea for Keith?

Gudbranson is oft injured as he is now and while big and tough he lacks mobility and any offence from him is a complete accident.

So you would give those 3 pieces up for Hammer but you didn't like my mock trade idea for Keith?

Gudbranson is oft injured as he is now and while big and tough he lacks mobility and any offence from him is a complete accident.
- RickJ

kapanen and liljegren are a lot higher up on the prospect chain. they are literally our top 2 prospects.

keith for bracco, carrick and a 1st is a very different trade to me.

gudbranson would be an upgrade on polak (ahl level) for our bottom pair... nothing more than that. a 2nd and 4th would be the high-end price for him imo.

kapanen and liljegren are a lot higher up on the prospect chain. they are literally our top 2 prospects.

keith for bracco, carrick and a 1st is a very different trade to me.

gudbranson would be an upgrade on polak (ahl level) for our bottom pair... nothing more than that. a 2nd and 4th would be the high-end price for him imo.
- Tumbleweed

Bracco (late second rounder) and Carrick (5th rounder with 8 points in 60+ games last year) and a 1st (likely a 20-26th overall) pick is not nearly good enough. I respectfully think this trade would get Stan fired. Obviously Liljegren and Kapanen are your best prospects, but Bracco and Carrick aren't exactly jerseys that will every be flying off the shelves.

Keith is a first ballot HoF guy who is likely 75% as effective as he's always been. Babcock would give the moon to have this guy. To pry away our best Defenseman of all-time it's going to take more than two Jeremy Morins and a late first.

kapanen and liljegren are a lot higher up on the prospect chain. they are literally our top 2 prospects.

keith for bracco, carrick and a 1st is a very different trade to me.

gudbranson would be an upgrade on polak (ahl level) for our bottom pair... nothing more than that. a 2nd and 4th would be the high-end price for him imo.
- Tumbleweed

That's why I suggested those 2 guys, that's the very least what it takes to get a Keith calibre defenceman and even that likely wouldn't be enough. Prospects are never have been yet guys until they actually do something.

Guarantee you if somebody asked Mike Babcock if he would give up Liljegren and Kapanen plus a #1 to get Keith he would say 'are you nuts of course I would, who the hell are those 2 guys? I need a winner on the ice now.'

Mike's win/loss record has never been the same since there was no more Nik Lidstrom so he knows the value of that wheelhorse on the back end.

That's why I suggested those 2 guys, that's the very least what it takes to get a Keith calibre defenceman and even that likely wouldn't be enough. Prospects are never have been yet guys until they actually do something.

Guarantee you if somebody asked Mike Babcock if he would give up Liljegren and Kapanen plus a #1 to get Keith he would say 'are you nuts of course I would, who the hell are those 2 guys? I need a winner on the ice now.'

Mike's win/loss record has never been the same since there was no more Nik Lidstrom so he knows the value of that wheelhorse on the back end.
- RickJ

it's a good thing mike is our coach and not gm. it's short-term thinking that kept us down for so many years.

now that we are starting to get competitive, i'm okay with trading our 1st and top prospects ... but i think we need someone younger coming back if we did that.

we're just not in position to trade those 3 pieces for a guy who is 34.

tampa, washington, pitts or winnipeg would all be better landing spots. veteran teams that need a cup in the next couple years.

it's a good thing mike is our coach and not gm. it's short-term thinking that kept us down for so many years.

now that we are starting to get competitive, i'm okay with trading our 1st and top prospects ... but i think we need someone younger coming back if we did that.

we're just not in position to trade those 3 pieces for a guy who is 34.

tampa, washington, pitts or winnipeg would all be better landing spots. veteran teams that need a cup in the next couple years.
- Tumbleweed

Curious, didn't the Leafs give 38 yr old Marleau 6 mil per for 3 yrs cuz they are ready to win this yr? I did........

wow that team of 08 puts today's team to shame. Big physical and skilled. Had a actual heavy weight in walker guys like eager ladd and buff.
Separate note why is jurco in the lineup he is useless. Cody mcCleod just went on waivers never a huge fan of his but this would be a welcome addition to the 4th line.

Curious, didn't the Leafs give 38 yr old Marleau 6 mil per for 3 yrs cuz they are ready to win this yr? I did........
- Mr Ricochet

we didn't trade for marleau. we waited for free agency.

it's all moot. keith needs to want to be traded to toronto.

he's staying with you guys.