I am not one to throw crap out there, but I would love to see Hawks deal Keith to Toronto and build around a Nylander+picks/prospects return.

Ive come to realize the realistic chance at another cup is closed. You sell high when you can and move along. Pick your key building blocks and move forward. You make 20-8-88 your top offensive line, slide 19 down where he belongs and maybe paired with 12 and Nylander he can produce. You also dangle 15 and see if you can acquire more picks and free up cap room.

The window to win was going to close at some point and it was blast the last 10 years watching this team morph into a powerhouse. You never see the end coming but it's Bowman's job now to maximize return on the assets he can trade and not retain salary on and with 7/19 you eat salary. 88 is a generational talent and you keep him UNLESS he wants to go....and maybe in the twilight he goes home to Buffalo and plays with Eichel but not now....

I'm not angry....I'm not upset, I just have accepted the inevitable. Making the playoffs does nothing They aren't beating Nashville. They would be waxed and the only thing left to do is watch to see if McDonough's work the last 10 years of building the casual Chicago fan into a Hawks fan has staying power as the corporate suite ights will dim out with the new tax plan and Wirtz will want to push across price increases to his "regular fan" as much as he can.

I will say the demise of 19 has been alarming. We know now it's not just lack of players they brought Saad in and 19's killed his s production as well.

Arguably overpassing is the Number 1 thing absolutely killing the Hawks. It was absolutely insane against the Lightning. The Hawks give up open point blank opportunities to shoot to make difficult passes. These passes often end up with no shot being taken - or if a shot is taken it is a very poor one.

So many great things can happen if an open point/blank shot is just taken. One - the goalie let’s the puck in. Two - the goalie makes a save and there is a rebound. Three - the goalie overplays the puck (see Forsberg). Four - the goalie makes a save and there is an offensive zone face-off. Etc Etc. Instead we end up with nothing. I was basically screaming in my head “ SHOOT THE PUCK!”

When this is combined with the Hawks propensity to get many shots blocked and to shoot many shots wide it is a freakin’ nightmare. The lack of offence has almost nothing to do with the opposing teams - it is self-inflicted.
- Z3Hawk

BTW Savard being fired was because Bowman sat and watched him run training camp, practice in early 2008 after a near playoff miss and suggested he be replaced. Slow start in 2008 led to Q being put in place.

Talon was never a yes man, and the RFA disaster, while not physically there, fell on him and he was gone.......

Savard was a face to bring fans in before the Kane/Toews era, and they probably should have gone with yawney back then for better development. Savard got an olive branch with the ambassador role. IF savard was a good coach he would be in the NHL right now or since then......

i've seen OEL live enough. he's still a good player, but looks like he's checked out this year.

no i didn't see the marleau signing coming. but allocating cap space vs. trading our 2 best prospects and a 1st are not comparable scenarios.

I’m trying to think of similar players traded, under similar scenarios.

Lu was mid-thirties, had a MNC and could still goalie. Nucks got a bag of pucks and retained salary.

Campbell was younger and more expensive – and he brought back nothing.

Kesler – less expensive, but was looking for a big deal and had a full NMC. He got some ok pieces, but nothing special.

Not direct comparables, but these are the best examples I could think. Gives you a ballpark for value imo. I would think you guys do a little better than the kesler deal, but not much.

If you have better examples of what the market could be, I’m open to hearing them.
- Tumbleweed

Right, I see your line of thinking. You are the real estate agent in the suburbs guy looking for a great deal for his client and trying to cop a top end home cheaper based on comparables, which either aren't valid or are outdated. No problem with that thinking, but we aren't dealing in real estate. Premium NHL players get premium prices on the very rare occasions there is a trade - Johanssen/Jones; Weber/Subban; Duchene/Turris, even Henrique for Vattenen to a lesser extent.

There is no trade involving Keith forthcoming or imminent. Why would a team trade its best defenceman anyway - unless they felt the return was heavily skewed in their favour. This wouldn't be an 'OK we"ll take his contract off your hands deal' unless Bowman is an even worse negotiator than I think he is.

There will always be buyers who choose a Toyota over a Lexus or go to consignment shops for bargains instead of new from Neiman Marcus because they don't want to pay a brand premium or have the resources to do it. Eugene Melnyk is the NHL example of that and then he whines and cries about not selling tickets and not making the playoffs and losing money. The Leafs are in different world, money is no issue, winning a Cup is what they crave. If they identify an available player they want or need badly to get them over the top, paying up with some combination of very good young players, draft picks & $$ will be no issue. It might not be Keith or Doughty or Crosby, but it will be somebody eventually. Because they know it ain't happening with Roman Polak or Jake Gardiner or Ron Hainsey on their blueline.

>>>With all the struggles the Hawks have had over the last few seasons, and I categorize them as “mild struggles” as we’ve become accustomed to extremely high standards, I am enjoying reflecting on how amazing this franchise has been in the last decade.<<<

were addicted to great and success and lash out when we don't have it from this team...

I am not one to throw crap out there, but I would love to see Hawks deal Keith to Toronto and build around a Nylander+picks/prospects return.

Ive come to realize the realistic chance at another cup is closed. You sell high when you can and move along. Pick your key building blocks and move forward. You make 20-8-88 your top offensive line, slide 19 down where he belongs and maybe paired with 12 and Nylander he can produce. You also dangle 15 and see if you can acquire more picks and free up cap room.

The window to win was going to close at some point and it was blast the last 10 years watching this team morph into a powerhouse. You never see the end coming but it's Bowman's job now to maximize return on the assets he can trade and not retain salary on and with 7/19 you eat salary. 88 is a generational talent and you keep him UNLESS he wants to go....and maybe in the twilight he goes home to Buffalo and plays with Eichel but not now....

I'm not angry....I'm not upset, I just have accepted the inevitable. Making the playoffs does nothing They aren't beating Nashville. They would be waxed and the only thing left to do is watch to see if McDonough's work the last 10 years of building the casual Chicago fan into a Hawks fan has staying power as the corporate suite ights will dim out with the new tax plan and Wirtz will want to push across price increases to his "regular fan" as much as he can.

I will say the demise of 19 has been alarming. We know now it's not just lack of players they brought Saad in and 19's killed his s production as well.
- SteveRain

To expand on this a little, I think we (ideally the Hawks) should get away from the idea of having a "core". Yes you should sign and keep good players, but to keep holding onto players because they are part of the "core" is misguided (especially if there is another player out there that has proven to perform the same at a lower cost).

With a hard cap, you need to consider value. Seabrook was a really good defenseman, but there was no way he was worth that contract even the day he signed it let alone a couple years after it. I don't even want to hear about "leadership". Leadership is busting your butt to dig that puck out of the corner and help set up a prime scoring chance. If Eager would have told Toews to "relax and just play hockey" or whatever Seabrook told him a few years ago, would anyone be droning on about the leadership skills of Ben Eager???

I am not one to throw crap out there, but I would love to see Hawks deal Keith to Toronto and build around a Nylander+picks/prospects return.

Ive come to realize the realistic chance at another cup is closed. You sell high when you can and move along. Pick your key building blocks and move forward. You make 20-8-88 your top offensive line, slide 19 down where he belongs and maybe paired with 12 and Nylander he can produce. You also dangle 15 and see if you can acquire more picks and free up cap room.

The window to win was going to close at some point and it was blast the last 10 years watching this team morph into a powerhouse. You never see the end coming but it's Bowman's job now to maximize return on the assets he can trade and not retain salary on and with 7/19 you eat salary. 88 is a generational talent and you keep him UNLESS he wants to go....and maybe in the twilight he goes home to Buffalo and plays with Eichel but not now....

I'm not angry....I'm not upset, I just have accepted the inevitable. Making the playoffs does nothing They aren't beating Nashville. They would be waxed and the only thing left to do is watch to see if McDonough's work the last 10 years of building the casual Chicago fan into a Hawks fan has staying power as the corporate suite ights will dim out with the new tax plan and Wirtz will want to push across price increases to his "regular fan" as much as he can.

I will say the demise of 19 has been alarming. We know now it's not just lack of players they brought Saad in and 19's killed his s production as well.
- SteveRain

That shoulda been the trade for hammer. Nylander and 4th for hammer but we got duclair and murphy

Yes. Down 0-5 and come back to win 6-5. Beginning of our amazing 6-7 year run. Also the Nashvill playoff series. Hossa's 5 minute major....Kane scores late to tie....Hossa exit penalty box in overtime and buries the winner. Great stuff!
- hawk35

5min that burst them toward the cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt2Lg25SQFk

BTW Savard being fired was because Bowman sat and watched him run training camp, practice in early 2008 after a near playoff miss and suggested he be replaced. Slow start in 2008 led to Q being put in place.

Talon was never a yes man, and the RFA disaster, while not physically there, fell on him and he was gone.......

Savard was a face to bring fans in before the Kane/Toews era, and they probably should have gone with yawney back then for better development. Savard got an olive branch with the ambassador role. IF savard was a good coach he would be in the NHL right now or since then......
- SteveRain

Scotty Bowman, correct? Just want to verify.

IIRC, Q was brought in as an advisor or something like that which was writing on the wall for Savard that his days as head coach were numbered. I imagine Q had the same reaction when Barry Smith was brought in years ago and this year with Don Granato by the 3rd assistant coach (I believe he sits in the press box during games with the injured and scratched players).

That shoulda been the trade for hammer. Nylander and 4th for hammer but we got duclair and murphy
- Scott1977

You're nuts if you think Hjarllmarsson could get that much

To expand on this a little, I think we (ideally the Hawks) should get away from the idea of having a "core". Yes you should sign and keep good players, but to keep holding onto players because they are part of the "core" is misguided (especially if there is another player out there that has proven to perform the same at a lower cost).

With a hard cap, you need to consider value. Seabrook was a really good defenseman, but there was no way he was worth that contract even the day he signed it let alone a couple years after it. I don't even want to hear about "leadership". Leadership is busting your butt to dig that puck out of the corner and help set up a prime scoring chance. If Eager would have told Toews to "relax and just play hockey" or whatever Seabrook told him a few years ago, would anyone be droning on about the leadership skills of Ben Eager???
- Chunk

Don't disagree but I think the other way to look at it is the organizational depth at the time when these deals are signed. Case in point was bickell who had Hawks over a barrel because they had nobody ready to take his place.

hawks dealt Leddy......lost TVR, and dealt Hammer. I like Frosling, not a fan of Gustaffson (spell), Rutta is OK, but Kempny? Pass.

IMO the hawks don't have a #1 D man on the team today, and seabrook is probably borderline top 4

To expand on this a little, I think we (ideally the Hawks) should get away from the idea of having a "core". Yes you should sign and keep good players, but to keep holding onto players because they are part of the "core" is misguided (especially if there is another player out there that has proven to perform the same at a lower cost).

With a hard cap, you need to consider value. Seabrook was a really good defenseman, but there was no way he was worth that contract even the day he signed it let alone a couple years after it. I don't even want to hear about "leadership". Leadership is busting your butt to dig that puck out of the corner and help set up a prime scoring chance. If Eager would have told Toews to "relax and just play hockey" or whatever Seabrook told him a few years ago, would anyone be droning on about the leadership skills of Ben Eager???
- Chunk

Don't disagree but I think the other way to look at it is the organizational depth at the time when these deals are signed. Case in point was bickell who had Hawks over a barrel because they had nobody ready to take his place.

hawks dealt Leddy......lost TVR, and dealt Hammer. I like Frosling, not a fan of Gustaffson (spell), Rutta is OK, but Kempny? Pass.

IMO the hawks don't have a #1 D man on the team today, and seabrook is probably borderline top 4

Scotty Bowman, correct? Just want to verify.

IIRC, Q was brought in as an advisor or something like that which was writing on the wall for Savard that his days as head coach were numbered. I imagine Q had the same reaction when Barry Smith was brought in years ago and this year with Don Granato by the 3rd assistant coach (I believe he sits in the press box during games with the injured and scratched players).
- AEL_Fox

Correct.....Bowman Sr was not great shakes as a GM, ask a Buffalo Sabre fan, but the guy can evaluate talent and coaching. It's all in the past, but I understand the corporate game on going on back then as you had a new guy in charge, McDonough, who leaned on the one of the most respected names in hockey.....and when things got back in 2010 with the goal tending and rumors at the deadline, who squashed that? Scotty Bowman. And who just squashed all the Crawford crap recently? SCotty Bowman.

Not a coincidence.

You're nuts if you think Hjarllmarsson could get that much
- PatShart

I think for Keith you could......probably more. Him to an eastern conference team would be a game changer.

I am 99.99% sure it never happens, but that's the bold move this team should be looking to make. No tpatching holes with has beens. Who's next to come back?

Great Blog JL.

Hawks are on a low point and obviously the question will be how much lower does it go and how severe does the retool become?

For me, I think they don't go extreme yet. I'm thinking maybe another hockey trade happens between now and the deadline and they see where that takes them. I think for the Hawks, they wouldn't sell much or move any big parts until offseason/draft.

Right, I see your line of thinking. You are the real estate agent in the suburbs guy looking for a great deal for his client and trying to cop a top end home cheaper based on comparables, which either aren't valid or are outdated. No problem with that thinking, but we aren't dealing in real estate. Premium NHL players get premium prices on the very rare occasions there is a trade - Johanssen/Jones; Weber/Subban; Duchene/Turris, even Henrique for Vattenen to a lesser extent.

There is no trade involving Keith forthcoming or imminent. Why would a team trade its best defenceman anyway - unless they felt the return was heavily skewed in their favour. This wouldn't be an 'OK we"ll take his contract off your hands deal' unless Bowman is an even worse negotiator than I think he is.

There will always be buyers who choose a Toyota over a Lexus or go to consignment shops for bargains instead of new from Neiman Marcus because they don't want to pay a brand premium or have the resources to do it. Eugene Melnyk is the NHL example of that and then he whines and cries about not selling tickets and not making the playoffs and losing money. The Leafs are in different world, money is no issue, winning a Cup is what they crave. If they identify an available player they want or need badly to get them over the top, paying up with some combination of very good young players, draft picks & $$ will be no issue. It might not be Keith or Doughty or Crosby, but it will be somebody eventually. Because they know it ain't happening with Roman Polak or Jake Gardiner or Ron Hainsey on their blueline.
- RickJ

The market to me is what similar players under similar circumstances have brought back in the past. GM’s don’t start every trade proposal from scratch. Many deals are based on past returns.

The market for a guy like e.kane is well defined. Prices for top 6 forward TDL selloffs prices are pretty well known. And none of the trades you mentioned involved NMC’s. So they are of zero relevance when talking keith.

I agree, the market for keith is much less defined. Top-pairing dman in their mid 30’s with a lot of term and a NMC. I can’t think of a good comparable. But the closest ones that come to mind tell me the market won’t be great.

But bottom line, the market will be dictated by supply and demand. With keith’s NMC, demand will likely be kept artificially low. There hasn’t been a single player with a full NMC traded that brought back a fair return. So unless, bowman is willing to take a big haircut on his value or keith demands a trade, he won’t be moved.

You're nuts if you think Hjarllmarsson could get that much
- PatShart

ty

we might see how this plays out. If AZ is looking to move Hammer, than the leafs should be in on him. he could be a good player for our top 4.

You're nuts if you think Hjarllmarsson could get that much
- PatShart

A team desperate for a leader on d and top 2 dman that would guide the toronto defense and not panic plus a 3 three time cup winner yea i think toronto woulda done that deal just my opinion.

1. Brooks Orpik Washington Capitals UFA 37 D 48 0 7 7 -7 20:34 $5,500,000 $5,500,000
2. Paul Martin San Jose Sharks M-NTC UFA 36 D 3 0 0 0 -4 13:27 $4,400,000 $4,850,000
3. Andy Greene New Jersey Devils NTC UFA 35 D 46 3 7 10 -4 21:08 $5,000,000 $5,000,000
4. Duncan Keith Chicago Blackhawks NMC UFA 34 D 47 0 22 22 -7 24:47 $5,000,000 $5,538,462
5. Jay Bouwmeester St. Louis Blues NTC UFA 34 D 19 1 1 2 7 19:20 $5,400,000 $5,400,000
6. Mark Giordano Calgary Flames NTC UFA 34 D 47 8 14 22 9 24:28 $6,750,000 $6,750,000
7. Johnny Boychuk New York Islanders NMC UFA 34 D 34 3 6 9 2 20:40 $7,000,000 $6,000,000
8. Toby Enström Winnipeg Jets NMC UFA 33 D 26 0 3 3 -1 16:35 $5,750,000 $5,750,000
9. Ryan Suter Minnesota Wild NMC UFA 33 D 48 6 25 31 -3 26:44 $9,000,000 $7,538,462
10. Brent Burns San Jose Sharks M-NTC UFA 32 D, RW 47 7 32 39 -20 25:19 $10,000,000 $8,000,000
11. Dustin Byfuglien Winnipeg Jets NMC UFA 32 D, RW 37 2 17 19 2 23:24 $8,000,000 $7,600,000
12. Dion Phaneuf Ottawa Senators M-NTC, NMC UFA 32 D 44 3 10 13 -4 20:26 $7,000,000 $7,000,000
13. Brent Seabrook Chicago Blackhawks NMC UFA 32 D 46 2 11 13 10 19:49 $9,000,000 $6,875,000
14. Marc Methot Dallas Stars M-NTC UFA 32 D 16 0 0 0 0 19:08 $4,900,000 $4,900,000
15. Alex Goligoski Arizona Coyotes NMC UFA 32 D 49 5 17 22 -21 23:07 $6,100,000 $5,475,000
16. Shea Weber Montreal Canadiens UFA 32 D 26 6 10 16 -8 25:20 $12,000,000 $7,857,143
17. Mike Green Detroit Red Wings NTC UFA 32 D 47 5 21 26 -1 22:37 $6,000,000 $6,000,000
18. Alexander Edler Vancouver Canucks NTC UFA 31 D 36 2 15 17 -5 23:17 $6,000,000 $5,000,000
19. Andrej Sekera Edmonton Oilers NMC UFA 31 D 13 0 1 1 -9 17:17 $5,500,000 $5,500,000
20. Andrew MacDonald Philadelphia Flyers UFA 31 D 33 2 8 10 9 20:19 $5,250,000 $5,000,000
21. Keith Yandle Florida Panthers NMC UFA 31 D 46 4 21 25 0 24:40 $7,500,000 $6,350,000
22. Matt Niskanen Washington Capitals M-NTC UFA 31 D 34 3 10 13 17 22:16 $5,750,000 $5,750,000
23. Marc Staal New York Rangers NMC UFA 31 D 47 1 6 7 10 18:03 $6,000,000 $5,700,000
24. Kris Letang Pittsburgh Penguins M-NTC, NMC UFA 30 D 47 3 25 28 -14 25:35 $7,250,000 $7,250,000
25. Jeff Petry Montreal Canadiens NMC UFA 30 D 48 4 15 19 -23 23:11 $6,000,000 $5,500,000

All defensemen age 30+ with cap hits $4.75M and above.
Keith (even with his current "regression") is a steal in this group.

5min that burst them toward the cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt2Lg25SQFk
- bogiedoc

A still picture of that Hossa celebration was my desktop picture for a long time after that game. Incredible memories that this team has given us fans over the last decade.

As frustrating as this season has been, and as questionable as the immediate future of the franchise seems, I am so thankful to have seen the Hawks hoist the Cup 3 times in my 30 years. I remember my dad taking me to as many games as we could afford to attend as a kid and wishing that one day they'd win a Stanley Cup. Heck, many years I remember just wishing for playoff hockey. It was something that we enjoyed watching together and helped our father/son bond grow.

Well, this core group has given us all one heck of a show. In 2010, for a few hours each game night, the Hawks allowed my dad and I to escape the realities of his illness and allowed us to celebrate a Cup just a few months before he lost his battle with that illness. Then to top it off, they gave us all 2 more Stanley Cup championships to celebrate and created a dynasty in the salary cap era... no easy task.

Even if this is it for this core group of players (which I still do not believe that it is), it will almost certainly be the best stretch of Blackhawks hockey that I will witness. Partial re-builds and youth movements are difficult to watch and it's hard to see the losses pile up. But given time to develop, I like a lot of the younger players and feel that if Stan adds a few pieces here and there, 88, 50, 19, 2 & even 7 can have one more run at it over the next few years.

Hope everyone enjoys the game tonight and remembers the last 10 years as fondly as I do, regardless of the frustrations that this season has brought about.

A team desperate for a leader on d and top 2 dman that would guide the toronto defense and not panic plus a 3 three time cup winner yea i think toronto woulda done that deal just my opinion.
- Scott1977

All defensemen age 30+ with cap hits $4.75M and above.
Keith (even with his current "regression") is a steal in this group.
- Slofire94

that's why you guys should keep him

- Tumbleweed

My Thoughts exactly

that's why you guys should keep him
- Tumbleweed

I agree. Keith retires a Hawk.

5min that burst them toward the cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt2Lg25SQFk
- bogiedoc

Thanks. That put a smile on my face.

@JayZawaski670

It's taken longer than I would like, but I can confirm @MarkLazerus's report that Corey Crawford has indeed been dealing with vertigo. The injury is legit. There is no "conspiracy" or "hiding" of some other issue.