I don't really agree on any of them
- PhillySportsGuy

Ghost is putting up points at a much better rate and is playong better in his own zone

Laughton was in the A and is on pace for 14 goals in the big league so thats certainly an improvement

Do people think that Hak is the only one in the org developing young players? It's not linear. There's going to be ups and downs. If you took the view you have to Coots, he'd be gone by now.
- feelingkettle

That's not true at all. I defended Couts for years. I don't just look at point production as the indicator of success.

Also, the coach is the one who develops the players. He sets the practices, sets the lineups and maps out the development programs for players throughout the season. He's the one in charge of these things. He gets help from others within the organization, but it's his job to execute everything the way he sees fit.

That's not true at all. I defended Couts for years. I don't just look at point production as the indicator of success.

Also, the coach is the one who develops the players. He sets the practices, sets the lineups and maps out the development programs for players throughout the season. He's the one in charge of these things. He gets help from others within the organization, but it's his job to execute everything the way he sees fit.
- PhillySportsGuy

There is a slew of other couches on the team. None of which were even hired by Hak. It's a group effect.

I disagree with some of these assessments.

I haven't really seen much improvement from a lot of these guys. That's my primary concern.

I think people are overrating Provorov at this time in his career. He's really a 2nd pairing Dman IMO and he was a second pairing Dman last year. I expect him to improve and become a top pairing caliber player, but people are really getting ahead of themselves projecting him as a future Norris contender.

Ghost is the same player he's always been. His play in his own zone is still a mess and hasn't improved at all. People are just more willing to overlook it because the puck is going in the net for him this year.

I still like Konecny and I think he'll bounce back, but he's just another in the long list of young players who is struggling. I don't think Hak has done him many favors over the last couple years.

Hagg is completely overrated in my eyes. I'm not sure why the team and scouts are so high on him. If I were Hexy, I would be looking to move him ASAP. It's great that he's good along the boards, but he hasn't been very good away from the boards. He's been buoyed by an unsustainable save percentage and his "poor play" of late is just regression to the mean. He concedes the blue line way too easily and isn't efficient enough in the neutral zone.

I'm definitely concerned about Patrick and I don't just assume he'll develop and be fine. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean we can't use some of this season to project his future. He's been completely overwhelmed and likely doesn't belong in the NHL yet. He hasn't really shown anything and rarely does anything that leads you to believe in a future where he becomes a major difference maker. I'm not saying he needs to be a top 6 forward right now, but it's concerning that he's not even an NHL caliber forward right now.

Leier is a 4th liner and Laughton has shown some ability to be an effective bottom 6 player. I'm not sure we should give development too much credit for a 1st round pick being a bottom six player, but whatevs.

Morin and Sanheim should both be playing in the NHL every night and this is where I really don't like what the team is doing. I'll never understand why they won't just play these guys over vets like Manning and MacDonald. They need the NHL time. They are going to make mistakes and lose games. So what!? That's basically how most talented players break into the NHL. In fact, young players have sometimes said that breaking in with bad teams is easier because they can play through their problems without worrying. It's much harder to break in with a fringe playoff team that needs every point.
- PhillySportsGuy

There is a slew of other couches on the team. None of which were even hired by Hak. It's a group effect.
- hereticpride

they literally have seperate "player development coaches." also Hak doesnt coach the phantoms which is a huge part of development. Hak has some shortcomings as a coach but i dont think player dev is one of them, and if it is its way too early to tell

Shayne Gostisbehere is 3rd in the league in points by defensemen.

3rd! Good lord guys.

That's not true at all. I defended Couts for years. I don't just look at point production as the indicator of success.

Also, the coach is the one who develops the players. He sets the practices, sets the lineups and maps out the development programs for players throughout the season. He's the one in charge of these things. He gets help from others within the organization, but it's his job to execute everything the way he sees fit.
- PhillySportsGuy

Doesn't matter about points...he struggled offensively for years and people were freaking out about it. It just seems like you're down on everyone right now pretty much, when you have to look at the big picture.

I would have to imagine if Hakstol was negatively affecting the development of players, Hextall would get rid of him in an instant. I think there's more to development of prospects and players that goes on besides the coach than you or I even will ever know.

- -davies-

Ghost is putting up points at a much better rate and is playong better in his own zone

Laughton was in the A and is on pace for 14 goals in the big league so thats certainly an improvement
- bulet13

Ghost is playing similarly to last year. He's just not having the most unlucky season of anybody in the NHL. The team shot 6.4% last season with him on the ice. Now they're back up to over 9%. He still gets lost in the defensive zone a lot. His problems still persist. I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's a good player in the aggregate. I'm just saying he hasn't improved. He's just getting more puck luck this year.

Laughton played 2 NHL games last year because Hexy and Hak felt playing Bellemare, Vandevelde and Weise for an entire season was better for the team, so it's hard to tell what his improvement was. Still, taking 5 years to develop a first round pick into a bottom 6 forward isn't exactly one for the win column.

- -davies-

Ghost is playing similarly to last year. He's just not having the most unlucky season of anybody in the NHL. The team shot 6.4% last season with him on the ice. Now they're back up to over 9%. He still gets lost in the defensive zone a lot. His problems still persist. I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's a good player in the aggregate. I'm just saying he hasn't improved. He's just getting more puck luck this year.

Laughton played 2 NHL games last year because Hexy and Hak felt playing Bellemare, Vandevelde and Weise for an entire season was better for the team, so it's hard to tell what his improvement was. Still, taking 5 years to develop a first round pick into a bottom 6 forward isn't exactly one for the win column.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's 3rd in points among D men dude.

Doughtey, Karlsson, Burns all behind him. Tied with Hedman. He isn't even our number 1 like all those guys are for their teams. What else do you want?

There is a slew of other couches on the team. None of which were even hired by Hak. It's a group effect.
- hereticpride

So you think Hak goes to his assistant and says "Hey, you're working with the defensemen this season. Do whatever you think is best for their development"?

Everything should be mapped out at the start of the season and specific programs should be built for each individual player. They should all have one specific coach who works with them repeatedly to fine-tune their games.

He's 3rd in points among D men dude.

Doughtey, Karlsson, Burns all behind him. Tied with Hedman. He isn't even our number 1 like all those guys are for their teams. What else do you want?
- hereticpride

Your response makes no sense. I never said he was a bad player. I said he's a good player in the aggregate.

So you think Hak goes to his assistant and says "Hey, you're working with the defensemen this season. Do whatever you think is best for their development"?

Everything should be mapped out at the start of the season and specific programs should be built for each individual player. They should all have one specific coach who works with them repeatedly to fine-tune their games.
- PhillySportsGuy

i really dont think the flyers have a different system than any other team

Your response makes no sense. I never said he was a bad player. I said he's a good player in the aggregate.
- PhillySportsGuy

OK, so then what would you see as improvement

Free Sanhiem.

Seriously. If you're at the point where you can separate the player Hextall from the GM Hextall you have to admit he is really in the wrong continuing to allow Sanhiem to be healthy scratched. He needs to be sent down or Hak needs to be told to play him.

On another note, as crazy as it sounds. Bring back Jagr. If you don't want to bring up Martell or Lindbolm to replace Jori freaking Lehtera on the power play that's fine. But don't try to tell me Jagr wouldn't be more useful on PP2 and to the kids in the locker room.
- hereticpride

It's getting close to that point with Sanheim but not yet. As far as Jagr is concerned, why? He has a goal and 6 assists in 22 games and has one PP point on the year. I'd say it's pretty much the end for Jagr.

i didnt realize Ghost had such good possession metrics

my only knock on Provy is that his possession metrics need to improve

Just because young players are playing hockey for the Flyers doesn't mean they're being developed well
- PhillySportsGuy

On the same token just because some fans think they aren't doing a good job with player development doesn't mean they are. I don't think you can make a legitimate case that they aren't doing a good job.

Doesn't matter about points...he struggled offensively for years and people were freaking out about it. It just seems like you're down on everyone right now pretty much, when you have to look at the big picture.

I would have to imagine if Hakstol was negatively affecting the development of players, Hextall would get rid of him in an instant. I think there's more to development of prospects and players that goes on besides the coach than you or I even will ever know.
- feelingkettle

Couts has been good offensively for the last two seasons. His even strength scoring in the two seasons prior to this one was at a low level top line/high level 2nd line. And much of that was without guys like Voracek and Giroux. His overall numbers didn't look as good because of injuries and limited PP time on a bad 2nd unit.

I'm the wrong person to have this argument about Couts. I've been one of his staunchest supporters for the last 5 years.

Also, the 2nd paragraph, the MJL response, is based on the premise that GMs and coaches don't make mistakes, so we should just trust they're doing things correctly.

OK, so then what would you see as improvement
- bulet13

Him becoming a better player in his own zone

Your response makes no sense. I never said he was a bad player. I said he's a good player in the aggregate.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's a great offensive defensemen. He isn't called on to put up stellar defensive numbers. Can he be better defensively? Absolutely. But he is absolutely excelling in his main role on this team. Referring to his play as good in the aggregate is to me, a slight.

By this thought process someone like Paul Coffey would be classified as a "good", but not great player?

Filppula has been just as awful as advertised. Flyers really need to just stop playing him, Weise and Lehtera altogether. No reason why they can't find better replacements in the minors for these guys
- PhillySportsGuy

That is completely untrue. Fillppula is a solid veteran player who is reliable on both ends of the ice and on special teams. He is a 3rd line NHL center being asked to play a 2nd line role. He's on his way to somewhere close to a 20 goal 40 point season.

Him becoming a better player in his own zone
- PhillySportsGuy

I think most people here would agree that while not great in his own zone, he has improved there this season. I think his corsi numbers show thst this concern is a little overblown AND he does much more good than harm

Morin and Sanheim should both be playing in the NHL every night and this is where I really don't like what the team is doing. I'll never understand why they won't just play these guys over vets like Manning and MacDonald. They need the NHL time. They are going to make mistakes and lose games. So what!? That's basically how most talented players break into the NHL. In fact, young players have sometimes said that breaking in with bad teams is easier because they can play through their problems without worrying. It's much harder to break in with a fringe playoff team that needs every point.
- PhillySportsGuy

That says it all that you'll never understand. MacDonald is playing against top lines with heavy D zone starts. No other defenseman is really suited for that other than Provorov. It's bad enough that Hagg is saddled with a lot of that. Now you want two more rookies subjected to roles and ice time that is not suitable for development? If they did what you suggest, then their development process would really be a mess. Roles and responsibilities are the factors, not how good the team is.

PSG ready to risk it all