So if playing consistant games at the NHL isn't a measure of success as far as development goes then what is?

I just don't see their development system as being a mess.
- opeth_pa

Gradual improvement should be the measure of success. Which young player has improved from last year to this year?

I still rank Flip a few click above Weise and Lehtera actually. He's largely fine on the wing on the 3rd or 4th line. I'm not a big fan of him at center and definitely not a fan of using him in the top 6 but it seems that Hak doesn't have a lot of options.
- hereticpride

Yes, he's better than Weise and Lehtera. That's not a high bar.

Filppula is not good defensively, so if he's not producing offense, he's producing poor play

So if playing consistant games at the NHL isn't a measure of success as far as development goes then what is?

I just don't see their development system as being a mess.
- opeth_pa

I think the system is largely fine. The real issue is the NHL team management. It's not the systems fault Hak would rather play vets over kids. The system is currently light years beyond where Clarke and Homer ever had it.

My one legit knock on the system is that they are too in love with developing the "200ft player" and shy away from taking on highly offensive-minded forwards. I think it's important to have a mix of everything in the system and I feel like they just play it a little safe in that regard.

I think the system is largely fine. The real issue is the NHL team management. It's not the systems fault Hak would rather play vets over kids. The system is currently light years beyond where Clarke and Homer ever had it.

My one legit knock on the system is that they are too in love with developing the "200ft player" and shy away from taking on highly offensive-minded forwards. I think it's important to have a mix of everything in the system and I feel like they just play it a little safe in that regard.
- hereticpride

I don't think they have an obsession with 200ft players. They've mostly drafted for skill, but struggle to utilize it at the NHL level.

I think a lot of these issues are coaching related. I still think coaching is a very underrated part of team and organization success. There is still this idea that good coaches are easily replaceable.

PSG in Crimsian Shambles

Need these 2 points if they think their a playoff team.

Gradual improvement should be the measure of success. Which young player has improved from last year to this year?
- PhillySportsGuy

Gostisbehere, Laughton, Hagg, Konecny, Provorov off the top of my head.

Need these 2 points if they think their a playoff team.
- Just5

They aren’t a playoff team.

@phillysportsguy i agree with your assessment of Hagg but disagree completely with the Provy assessment. Hagg is a disaster everywhere except along the boards but Provy is a sure fire #1

In regards to Patrick, there are plenty of high picks that took a while to figure it out and become successful players. I wouldnt worry too much-yet

Gradual improvement should be the measure of success. Which young player has improved from last year to this year?
- PhillySportsGuy

Ghost
Konecny
Provorov
Laughton

xx

Ghost
Konecny
Provorov
Laughton
- jmatchett383

dont forget that coots is only like 25...

Totally disagree. I don't see a mess. I just see various learning curves; basically the norm when you are working to turn prospects into regular NHL contributors. It doesn't always happen quickly. There's a reason why development is called a learning curve and not a learning arrow.

Would it be nice if the Flyers had a Hischier or Boeser that stepped in with immediate impact up front and a "second Provorov" on D? Absolutely. Is it a huge concern that they haven't? It shouldn't be. But if we are having all these same conversations a year from now, yes, there'd be some concern.

1) Konecny is now playing with Couturier and Giroux -- a role that took some time to be ready for -- is doing well and should only continue to improve. He's still only 20 years old and is on a 30-point pace despite all his trials and tribulations. That's not a disaster.

2) Provorov benefited from the extra year of junior hockey and made an instant NHL impact; he's going to be the Flyers' cornerstone defenseman for a long time.

3) Hägg took a long road to the NHL, is now a regular and holding his own. There are things he still needs to improve, in some aspects considerably, but he is already reliable in his number one job, which is to defend well below the dots and be strong on the walls -- that is the main thing the decision makers look for (and it would be the same if he played elsewhere. FYI, other NHL teams' scouts have said in press box conversations that the Flyers did a real good job with Hägg and consider him about as steady as a rookie in his role can be expected to be).

4) Laughton is also a protracted development cycle guy, but has found an NHL role that he's pretty good at doing.

5) Patrick will be fine. Don't go by a half-season or even a full season of rookie numbers. With him, it's going to be a matter of those flashes we see turning into more frequent effectiveness. Right now, he still loses a lot of the battles that he will eventually win. It will take more time, but it will come.

6) Sanheim is your typical rookie NHL d-man at his age. Provorov spoiled us a year ago. A bit like Patrick, there have been flashes (actually a smattering of full games) where you can see Sanheim making an impact. Right now, he's basically a defenseman version of where Konecny was a year ago and for portions of the first half this year. Eventually, he'll be fine. However, I do agree that it would be better if he was playing for the Phantoms than sitting out a prolonged stretch in the NHL as a healthy scratch. He's already pretty good up-ice, but will only get better. Defensively, he's inconsistent but will also improve over time.

7) Leier right now is kind of where Laughton was a couple years ago..... very good two-way AHL guy, good skater, struggling to be effective in NHL (after a strong camp and good early start). He's never going to get the role/minutes he had with the Phantoms but he could figure it out still enough to be a good "modern day 4th liner" (meaning there needs to be some offense).

9) With Morin, the team was kind of at rookie saturation point on defense -- tough enough to break in two rookies, let alone 3 -- and then he got injured when the opportunity arose. He's close to being ready to return to the Phantoms lineup and hopefully doesn't get reinjured. If Sanheim goes down to the AHL for awhile, perhaps Morin comes up. He was uneven in his play during his brief Flyers stint this season -- nothing alarming but nothing that screamed "instant impact player", either, in proportion to the outcry for him. Sam will be fine. He's a good young D man.

10) The organization made the right call on Lindblom with a half-year in the AHL. When he comes up --- not sure when that will be, but I do think he's ready -- I think he'll become what many of us (myself included) hoped he'd be right from the outset. Sometimes it just takes a little extra time. Personally, I'd like to see him plugged into the role Raffl plays right now and for Raffl to go back to the 4th line. As Lindblom matures, you'll see more regular offense out of him in the NHL than you'll get (except in short spurts) from Raffl in a top-nine role.
- bmeltzer

nonsense, everything is terrible

dont forget that coots is only like 25...
- bulet13

I can't say if Hagg, Sanheim, or Patrick have progressed since I only saw them a few times (if at all) last year.

Ghost
Konecny
Provorov
Laughton
- jmatchett383

I don't really agree on any of them

I disagree with some of these assessments.

I haven't really seen much improvement from a lot of these guys. That's my primary concern.

I think people are overrating Provorov at this time in his career. He's really a 2nd pairing Dman IMO and he was a second pairing Dman last year. I expect him to improve and become a top pairing caliber player, but people are really getting ahead of themselves projecting him as a future Norris contender.

Ghost is the same player he's always been. His play in his own zone is still a mess and hasn't improved at all. People are just more willing to overlook it because the puck is going in the net for him this year.

I still like Konecny and I think he'll bounce back, but he's just another in the long list of young players who is struggling. I don't think Hak has done him many favors over the last couple years.

Hagg is completely overrated in my eyes. I'm not sure why the team and scouts are so high on him. If I were Hexy, I would be looking to move him ASAP. It's great that he's good along the boards, but he hasn't been very good away from the boards. He's been buoyed by an unsustainable save percentage and his "poor play" of late is just regression to the mean. He concedes the blue line way too easily and isn't efficient enough in the neutral zone.

I'm definitely concerned about Patrick and I don't just assume he'll develop and be fine. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean we can't use some of this season to project his future. He's been completely overwhelmed and likely doesn't belong in the NHL yet. He hasn't really shown anything and rarely does anything that leads you to believe in a future where he becomes a major difference maker. I'm not saying he needs to be a top 6 forward right now, but it's concerning that he's not even an NHL caliber forward right now.

Leier is a 4th liner and Laughton has shown some ability to be an effective bottom 6 player. I'm not sure we should give development too much credit for a 1st round pick being a bottom six player, but whatevs.

Morin and Sanheim should both be playing in the NHL every night and this is where I really don't like what the team is doing. I'll never understand why they won't just play these guys over vets like Manning and MacDonald. They need the NHL time. They are going to make mistakes and lose games. So what!? That's basically how most talented players break into the NHL. In fact, young players have sometimes said that breaking in with bad teams is easier because they can play through their problems without worrying. It's much harder to break in with a fringe playoff team that needs every point.
- PhillySportsGuy

are you ok

dont forget that coots is only like 25...
- bulet13

More opportunity doesn't equal development

I don't really agree on any of them
- PhillySportsGuy

I highly disagree with your take but opinions are opinions.

are you ok
- feelingkettle

Do people actually think Hak is doing well developing young players? Or do people just assume the young players will develop no matter what?

I highly disagree with your take but opinions are opinions.
- nastyflyergirl

Which one?

I disagree with some of these assessments.

I haven't really seen much improvement from a lot of these guys. That's my primary concern.

I think people are overrating Provorov at this time in his career. He's really a 2nd pairing Dman IMO and he was a second pairing Dman last year. I expect him to improve and become a top pairing caliber player, but people are really getting ahead of themselves projecting him as a future Norris contender.

Ghost is the same player he's always been. His play in his own zone is still a mess and hasn't improved at all. People are just more willing to overlook it because the puck is going in the net for him this year.

I still like Konecny and I think he'll bounce back, but he's just another in the long list of young players who is struggling. I don't think Hak has done him many favors over the last couple years.

Hagg is completely overrated in my eyes. I'm not sure why the team and scouts are so high on him. If I were Hexy, I would be looking to move him ASAP. It's great that he's good along the boards, but he hasn't been very good away from the boards. He's been buoyed by an unsustainable save percentage and his "poor play" of late is just regression to the mean. He concedes the blue line way too easily and isn't efficient enough in the neutral zone.

I'm definitely concerned about Patrick and I don't just assume he'll develop and be fine. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean we can't use some of this season to project his future. He's been completely overwhelmed and likely doesn't belong in the NHL yet. He hasn't really shown anything and rarely does anything that leads you to believe in a future where he becomes a major difference maker. I'm not saying he needs to be a top 6 forward right now, but it's concerning that he's not even an NHL caliber forward right now.

Leier is a 4th liner and Laughton has shown some ability to be an effective bottom 6 player. I'm not sure we should give development too much credit for a 1st round pick being a bottom six player, but whatevs.

Morin and Sanheim should both be playing in the NHL every night and this is where I really don't like what the team is doing. I'll never understand why they won't just play these guys over vets like Manning and MacDonald. They need the NHL time. They are going to make mistakes and lose games. So what!? That's basically how most talented players break into the NHL. In fact, young players have sometimes said that breaking in with bad teams is easier because they can play through their problems without worrying. It's much harder to break in with a fringe playoff team that needs every point.
- PhillySportsGuy

Please stay away from all bridges! Serious note, who would you deem a success in regards to grooming the kids?

I don't really agree on any of them
- PhillySportsGuy

You don't think Konecny is better this year, or that Provorov has improved over last year? And you think Ghost is still stuck in neutral like he was 90% of last year?

I disagree.

You don't think Konecny is better this year, or that Provorov has improved over last year? And you think Ghost is still stuck in neutral like he was 90% of last year?

I disagree.
- jmatchett383

Look, I just think there are real concerns with the way Hak is developing the young players and the team has invested heavily in the future, so it would behoove the organization to make sure they do develop properly.

Do people actually think Hak is doing well developing young players? Or do people just assume the young players will develop no matter what?
- PhillySportsGuy

Do people think that Hak is the only one in the org developing young players? It's not linear. There's going to be ups and downs. If you took the view you have to Coots, he'd be gone by now.

I think Ghost and Laughton are both better. Provorov had a damned good rookie year and he's topping it this year.

Konecny has been uneven for me, personally, but I'm glad to see him thriving recently.

Other thoughts:

1.) I'm disappointed that Morin is not in the NHL, full-time, at this point, but I think that is much a function of timing, than anything else. He got hurt at the wrong time and fell victim to numbers.

2.) I really thought Lindblom would contribute sooner, considering he was playing against older players in the SHL and did well in a short stint at the AHL level. I would like to see him up after it appears he now has his confidence back in the AHL.

3.) I admit to being mildly disappointed in Nolan Patrick, but still, he's only 19, and I think the comparison to Joe Thornton's rookie year is an apt one. It took Jumbo a couple of years to put it together.

4.) Stolarz's injury was disappointing, but you can't control that. I wanted him to be in the mix for starts in the NHL this year, with the thought he could win a full time job (i.e.--trade Neuvirth, elevate Stolarz).

But otherwise, this development program looks like any other development program around the league IMO. A big part of developing players is the veteran core that the team is working with. The Flyers' veteran core is top heavy. G, Simmer, and Jake are awesome, but after those guys, there is quite a fall off, both at forward and D.

I mean, it's fine to poop on the Flyers' development philosophy, but tell me....who is gold standard for developing players right now? I guarantee any team you name has a veteran core more talented than the Flyers do.