I don't think it's up to 'we' and our choices
- Michael Pachla

I think Garf and Goosie were pushing it .

I don't think it's up to 'we' and our choices
- Michael Pachla

Who we criticize is certainly up to us. That’s the point of the whole conversation tonight.

Why does Girgs get a pass for a 12 overall who can’t even earn his 1.2M or whatever it is. “Much is expected” from people other than the 12th overall pick.

I don't think ror is playing up to his capabilities...we know it and he knows it...he's supposed to be one of the top two-way centers in the league, but he hasn't played like that save for a handful of games...he wants to a be a leader, but hasn't played well enough to lead

to whom much is given, much is expected
- Michael Pachla

I think he is playing to his capabilities. I think he has played well enough to lead. The bottom 6 was such an unmittigated tire fire through the first 20 games, but most blamed the top of the roster while the bottom was sub-tank level. Moulson, Griffith, nolan, girgensons, Larsson, Criscuolo. These guys are sub-NHL level. Meanwhile ROR is carrying a guy who is trying to resume an NHL career after a life threatening injury and a guy who was bought out last year (although I do like Pouliot. But he's a 3rd liner).

For some reason, 21 points in 32 games while playing all three phases, and carrying the load of a shutdown center and 2nd line center because we didn't have a real 3rd line without Erod and Josefson. FOR some reason, he was vilified by many here for saying he wants to be better, but what he really means is, he needs top-6 caliber wingers.

Yeah, the best make those around them better. I would argue he has. He brought Okposo back, he and Risto have picked up the assists, and he's tied for 3rd in goals. The guy is an all-wolrd shutdown center. We can all squabble about whether he's worth 7.5 or 6.8, but the reality is there is so much dead weight on this team, and ROR is a bright spot.

Guys like Girgs are the problem. 1.6 million a year and he's lost his way totally. But somehow that's ok, because he's only a 14th overall pick, even though he was on pace for 22 in his second year.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty, but i genuinely feel bad for the real skilled players on this team who are being nailed

Buccaneers uniforms caused the Spaniel to puke.
- Der Kaiser

stinks is still something that smells

I think he is playing to his capabilities. I think he has played well enough to lead. The bottom 6 was such an unmittigated tire fire through the first 20 games, but most blamed the top of the roster while the bottom was sub-tank level. Moulson, Griffith, nolan, girgensons, Larsson, Criscuolo. These guys are sub-NHL level. Meanwhile ROR is carrying a guy who is trying to resume an NHL career after a life threatening injury and a guy who was bought out last year (although I do like Pouliot. But he's a 3rd liner).

For some reason, 21 points in 32 games while playing all three phases, and carrying the load of a shutdown center and 2nd line center because we didn't have a real 3rd line without Erod and Josefson. FOR some reason, he was vilified by many here for saying he wants to be better, but what he really means is, he needs top-6 caliber wingers.

Yeah, the best make those around them better. I would argue he has. He brought Okposo back, he and Risto have picked up the assists, and he's tied for 3rd in goals. The guy is an all-wolrd shutdown center. We can all squabble about whether he's worth 7.5 or 6.8, but the reality is there is so much dead weight on this team, and ROR is a bright spot.

Guys like Girgs are the problem. 1.6 million a year and he's lost his way totally. But somehow that's ok, because he's only a 14th overall pick, even though he was on pace for 22 in his second year.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty, but i genuinely feel bad for the real skilled players on this team who are being nailed
- jcragcrumple

May the Lord greet you in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead.

I think he is playing to his capabilities. I think he has played well enough to lead. The bottom 6 was such an unmittigated tire fire through the first 20 games, but most blamed the top of the roster while the bottom was sub-tank level. Moulson, Griffith, nolan, girgensons, Larsson, Criscuolo. These guys are sub-NHL level. Meanwhile ROR is carrying a guy who is trying to resume an NHL career after a life threatening injury and a guy who was bought out last year (although I do like Pouliot. But he's a 3rd liner).

For some reason, 21 points in 32 games while playing all three phases, and carrying the load of a shutdown center and 2nd line center because we didn't have a real 3rd line without Erod and Josefson. FOR some reason, he was vilified by many here for saying he wants to be better, but what he really means is, he needs top-6 caliber wingers.

Yeah, the best make those around them better. I would argue he has. He brought Okposo back, he and Risto have picked up the assists, and he's tied for 3rd in goals. The guy is an all-wolrd shutdown center. We can all squabble about whether he's worth 7.5 or 6.8, but the reality is there is so much dead weight on this team, and ROR is a bright spot.

Guys like Girgs are the problem. 1.6 million a year and he's lost his way totally. But somehow that's ok, because he's only a 14th overall pick, even though he was on pace for 22 in his second year.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty, but i genuinely feel bad for the real skilled players on this team who are being nailed
- jcragcrumple

he is a -16

only 3 nhl players worse


what has he shut down?

What's the point of having him there then?

I'm sure McDermott had input as any coach would, but it was still Whaley's job, even though he knew he was going to be fired. He did all the work leading up to the draft, so he finished it out and then left.

We traded down because that was an easy thing to do, everyone knew we were trading down for weeks. It would've been a shock had we NOT traded down.

The character thing was all Ralph, and Whaley followed that until Ralph's last couple years when he finally woke up and realized he wanted to win and didn't really care how, and then Rex came along and sped the process up by grabbing Incognito and Enemkpali.
- Wetbandit1

No offense but I disagree

McDermott and Andy Reid admitted they met and made the trade . They are friends.

Whaley was there ,but this is a complete opposite of a whaley draft. He was there out of courtesy and they didn't want him to share inside information by firing him.
Don't you remember the buffalo news asking him if he fired rex or even new about it. Whaley couldn't even answer easy questions.

It was a good draft. We didn't reach. We drafted smart, good guys. We didn't just plug in skill positions.

This draft has mcdermott written all over it.

Whaley has been drafting and signing troubled guys for years:

Darius #3 pick , then sign him to huge money
Mario williams
Jerry hughes
impale
Washington ( water park gun guy)
Ingonito
Vince Young
Drafting darby
Watkins

That's whaley's style

Now we drafted a valitictorian (tre)
A guy with a graduate degree (peterman)
Smart guys, team guys

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty, but i genuinely feel bad for the real skilled players on this team who are being nailed
- jcragcrumple

that list of people you feel bad for is really small


I mean really really small

Who we criticize is certainly up to us. That’s the point of the whole conversation tonight.

Why does Girgs get a pass for a 12 overall who can’t even earn his 1.2M or whatever it is. “Much is expected” from people other than the 12th overall pick.
- Der Kaiser

I don't see where the "pass" is...he's already been dropped down the depth chart and spent some time as a healthy scratch...he came back and was asked to do things on the second line that other wingers weren't doing...he did them, didn't score and looks as if he'll be back in the bottom six...

how shall I beat on him?

I think he is playing to his capabilities. I think he has played well enough to lead. The bottom 6 was such an unmittigated tire fire through the first 20 games, but most blamed the top of the roster while the bottom was sub-tank level. Moulson, Griffith, nolan, girgensons, Larsson, Criscuolo. These guys are sub-NHL level. Meanwhile ROR is carrying a guy who is trying to resume an NHL career after a life threatening injury and a guy who was bought out last year (although I do like Pouliot. But he's a 3rd liner).

For some reason, 21 points in 32 games while playing all three phases, and carrying the load of a shutdown center and 2nd line center because we didn't have a real 3rd line without Erod and Josefson. FOR some reason, he was vilified by many here for saying he wants to be better, but what he really means is, he needs top-6 caliber wingers.

Yeah, the best make those around them better. I would argue he has. He brought Okposo back, he and Risto have picked up the assists, and he's tied for 3rd in goals. The guy is an all-wolrd shutdown center. We can all squabble about whether he's worth 7.5 or 6.8, but the reality is there is so much dead weight on this team, and ROR is a bright spot.

Guys like Girgs are the problem. 1.6 million a year and he's lost his way totally. But somehow that's ok, because he's only a 14th overall pick, even though he was on pace for 22 in his second year.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nasty, but i genuinely feel bad for the real skilled players on this team who are being nailed
- jcragcrumple

Girgs could be a ROR going forward . Seems thats the anticipated outcome . He doesn't have the scoring touch of ROR, but has the drive . maybe im hoping for too much out of him. but who else do we have as a shut down center in the pipes ?

I don't see where the "pass" is...he's already been dropped down the depth chart and spent some time as a healthy scratch...he came back and was asked to do things on the second line that other wingers weren't doing...he did them, didn't score and looks as if he'll be back in the bottom six...

how shall I beat on him?
- Michael Pachla

can't win situation

Girgs could be a ROR going forward . Seems thats the anticipated outcome . He doesn't have the scoring touch of ROR, but has the drive . maybe im hoping for too much out of him. but who else do we have as a shut down center in the pipes ?
- cabin

he won't be around

I dont feel this current core (ror, okposo, eichel etc) will give gus or larsson a chance no matter what they do

can't win situation
- homiedclown

http://fantasy.hockeybuzz.com/hbsl/boxscore/570

I'm gonna win dammit !!! even if it is nothing! and I will like it .

can't win situation
- homiedclown

a healthy discussion

he won't be around

I dont feel this current core (ror, okposo, eichel etc) will give gus or larsson a chance no matter what they do
- homiedclown

I feel the same . Wish the outcome was better. Hope the return for both be better too.

he is a -16

only 3 nhl players worse


what has he shut down?
- homiedclown

That yeoman's work when your D doesn't score a goal and you're starting over 60% in your own zone

a healthy discussion
- Michael Pachla

Isn't that always goes on on here

Isn't that always goes on on here
- cabin

yeah...sometimes

That yeoman's work when your D doesn't score a goal and you're starting over 60% in your own zone
- jcragcrumple

is it true
only 2 goals by a sabres defense if by Mcabe ?

yeah...sometimes
- Michael Pachla

As sarcastic as your post

Girgs could be a ROR going forward . Seems thats the anticipated outcome . He doesn't have the scoring touch of ROR, but has the drive . maybe im hoping for too much out of him. but who else do we have as a shut down center in the pipes ?
- cabin

That's my point, ROR should be the shutdown center with 45 seconds left up 3-2. Otherwise, he should be getting at least 45% offensive zone draws and an actual opportunity to score with real second line wingers, while playing 17 mins a night

That yeoman's work when your D doesn't score a goal and you're starting over 60% in your own zone
- jcragcrumple

so because our d has 1 or 2 goals instead of 12 or 13, that is why ror has one of the worst +/- in the NHL

I am not buying it


he goes in the corners and digs out the puck when playing for team canada, maybe if he worked that hard as a sabre they would be closer to 8th in the east instead of last

so because our d has 1 or 2 goals instead of 12 or 13, that is why ror has one of the worst +/- in the NHL

I am not buying it


he goes in the corners and digs out the puck when playing for team canada, maybe if he worked that hard as a sabre they would be closer to 8th in the east instead of last
- homiedclown

Yes , yes , yes . We are not seeing it . Thats the issue . We bicthced about Jack and he scored a hatty all by himself . maybe thats what we have to do .. call the players out .

No offense but I disagree

McDermott and Andy Reid admitted they met and made the trade . They are friends.

Whaley was there ,but this is a complete opposite of a whaley draft. He was there out of courtesy and they didn't want him to share inside information by firing him.
Don't you remember the buffalo news asking him if he fired rex or even new about it. Whaley couldn't even answer easy questions.

It was a good draft. We didn't reach. We drafted smart, good guys. We didn't just plug in skill positions.

This draft has mcdermott written all over it.

Whaley has been drafting and signing troubled guys for years:

Darius #3 pick , then sign him to huge money
Mario williams
Jerry hughes
impale
Washington ( water park gun guy)
Ingonito
Vince Young
Drafting darby
Watkins

That's whaley's style

Now we drafted a valitictorian (tre)
A guy with a graduate degree (peterman)
Smart guys, team guys
- Boss34

I remember that, it's because Rex forced Terry's hand to fire him on the spot because he refused to bench Taylor, so Doug didn't know until after the fact and he and Terry hadn't had their year end meeting discussing Rex's future yet. Why would they? It was only week 16. So he wouldn't know for sure if Terry was going to fire him

How is Mario Williams troubled? He was pissed about his role under Rex.

They had to give Dareus the money, because if they let him walk they'd have been crucified and rightly so.

Jerry Hughes is undisciplined, ok.

Most of the most "troubled" guys were all Rex. And Ralph's last couple years to try and win. Whaley was following orders. If you don't think Pegula didn't tell him to throw all that money at Williams and Dareus you're sadly mistaken. The Sabres are exhibit A.

Whaley brought in Fitzpatrick, he went to Harvard, big deal.

Look, I'm not saying he was a good GM.

Whaley knew he was going to be fired, he put his house on the market like 5 days before the draft, he knew he was gone, and he did the classy thing and did his best.

Pegula needs to learn not to meddle so much, and maybe? he has at least a little bit. One can hope, anyway.

so because our d has 1 or 2 goals instead of 12 or 13, that is why ror has one of the worst +/- in the NHL

I am not buying it


he goes in the corners and digs out the puck when playing for team canada, maybe if he worked that hard as a sabre they would be closer to 8th in the east instead of last
- homiedclown

I think you have to consider the lack of scoring from defenseman while ror is on the ice. +/- is directly related to scoring.

I agree, the ror team canada is better than our ror buffalo sabre.
The will to win has been sucked out of him.
Losing has to effect certain guys more than others. Ror did the extra things to win. Haven't seen too much of that lately