I think you gotta keep ROR. He's a quality player that really isn't put into a great position to produce. He takes it on himself that he needs to be better. But, you give him a solid third line that can also take the D zone starts....his production goes up.
- cranktheradio

He gets a good number of offensive zone starts and plays over 3 minutes per game on the PP. 2nd most on the team.

He’s not producing more with a better 3rd line center, he’d just play less

nail meet hammer
- Michael Pachla

pretty much. There are lots that think a first is the all star player no matter where they are picked in that round.

pretty much. There are lots that think a first is the all star player no matter where they are picked in that round.
- cabin

That's why I never minded Shero.....with Botts at his side....trading away pics in Pittsburgh. Or, even trading away the D they stockpiled from late 1st round picks. So many people claimed that he was mortgaging the future. But, in reality, they brought back a lot of quality NHL level players that have had a pretty nice impact in Pittsburgh.

I'm hoping GMJB continues the trend in Buffalo. If he ends up with a lower 1st round pick....package it for someone who can DEFINITELY impact the team.

Does any Coach or GM have a frank conversation with their players on expected production?
As most of you know, in Corp America it is common 5o have these discussions once per quarter, per employee to clearly communicate:
- What is expected,
- how your performance compares to expectations
- barriers/ hurdles to overcome
- tactics to achieve

So, picking on Jack purely as example which could be extended to say 22 others..
“So Jack, ast he undisputed #1 Center, we expect the following:
-0.90+ PPG
-positive +/-
- fancy adv stat #1 here (Corsi?)
- fancy adv stat #w here
- 55%+ Faceoff win %

We see that you are
.
.
.
So we need for you to
-x
-y
-z

Does this poop actually happen?

That's why I never minded Shero.....with Botts at his side....trading away pics in Pittsburgh. Or, even trading away the D they stockpiled from late 1st round picks. So many people claimed that he was mortgaging the future. But, in reality, they brought back a lot of quality NHL level players that have had a pretty nice impact in Pittsburgh.

I'm hoping GMJB continues the trend in Buffalo. If he ends up with a lower 1st round pick....package it for someone who can DEFINITELY impact the team.
- cranktheradio

We ended up with too many of those hopefull moves that were too close to the downside to see anymore improvement. ROR for instance . Good player but not the impact type we saw a couple years ago. Need to hit on a player that just needed a change and goes off with it . Haven't seen that in a long time in buffalo. Briere would be the one with the most impact I can think of .

We ended up with too many of those hopefull moves that were too close to the downside to see anymore improvement. ROR for instance . Good player but not the impact type we saw a couple years ago. Need to hit on a player that just needed a change and goes off with it . Haven't seen that in a long time in buffalo. Briere would be the one with the most impact I can think of .
- cabin

That's true. I think Botts is a pretty good talent evaluator though. I'd credit him with giving Sullivan what he needed in Pittsburgh. After seeing the moves GMJR has made since he left, I'm pretty convinced that Botterill had a huge hand in most moves.

Does any Coach or GM have a frank conversation with their players on expected production?
As most of you know, in Corp America it is common 5o have these discussions once per quarter, per employee to clearly communicate:
- What is expected,
- how your performance compares to expectations
- barriers/ hurdles to overcome
- tactics to achieve

So, picking on Jack purely as example which could be extended to say 22 others..
“So Jack, ast he undisputed #1 Center, we expect the following:
-0.90+ PPG
-positive +/-
- fancy adv stat #1 here (Corsi?)
- fancy adv stat #w here
- 55%+ Faceoff win %

We see that you are
.
.
.
So we need for you to
-x
-y
-z

Does this poop actually happen?
- IonSabres

Hope something like that does. Would really suck if it was ..ok i signed and i'm here .
hope i score a goal .

Players need to have performance based contracts. The way it is now it is driven by greedy owners/GMs paying for a player they hope will make their team better. They are at the mercy of the players . Thanks god for buyout options . They need to fix that so the player gets the boot with no pay cause they sucked .

or maybe we overrated him?...I though he'd be a top-six player...it doesn't seem as if it will work out that way
- Michael Pachla

Yeah, that's reasonable. But I don't agree with him receiving kudos for his game, when he's paid like a 3rd/4th liner and produces at a sub-replacement level, while O'Reilly gets lambasted for producing like a 2nd liner while playing with scrubs. ROR has a terrible +/- because he has to be the checking forward in addition to the 2nd line forward because people like girgs can't pull their own weight.

Girgs is bad. He has 4 points this year. He's now transferring that to ROR, and despite the former's draft pedigree, he isn't held to the same standard

That's true. I think Botts is a pretty good talent evaluator though. I'd credit him with giving Sullivan what he needed in Pittsburgh. After seeing the moves GMJR has made since he left, I'm pretty convinced that Botterill had a huge hand in most moves.
- cranktheradio

Botts is still green here and good things will take some time . Thanks for the reassurance we could possible be in good hands.

Call me crazy, admidtily I have had 2 Bourbons...
But if we can run a oil pipeline from Alaska through Canad into the US...

Well with these Cali fires, why can’t we put in a giant network Of some sort of lawn irrigation/fire suppression system in the god-blessed woods? Of course it would need some sort of geographic on/off control system...but damn, better than watching the State burn down every other year. Free water from the damn ocean nearby.

I’m available for consultation...but the Sabres do take priority...unless the fee is rather substantial.

Yeah, that's reasonable. But I don't agree with him receiving kudos for his game, when he's paid like a 3rd/4th liner and produces at a sub-replacement level, while O'Reilly gets lambasted for producing like a 2nd liner while playing with scrubs. ROR has a terrible +/- because he has to be the checking forward in addition to the 2nd line forward because people like girgs can't pull their own weight.

Girgs is bad. He has 4 points this year. He's now transferring that to ROR, and despite the former's draft pedigree, he isn't held to the same standard
- jcragcrumple

So tough to judge these players as being nothing but bad this season. Sad thing is we said that the past 3 seasons . The lack of goals we have scored is kept us in the basement . lots of lost 1 goal games ...same as the past few seasons .

Call me crazy, admidtily I have had 2 Bourbons...
But if we can run a oil pipeline from Alaska through Canad into the US...

Well with these Cali fires, why can’t we put in a giant network Of some sort of lawn irrigation/fire suppression system in the god-blessed woods? Of course it would need some sort of geographic on/off control system...but damn, better than wTching the State burn down every other year.

I’m available for consultation...but the Sabres do take priority...unless th3 Gee is rather substantial.
- IonSabres

I think the Alaska pipe line was the reason the environmentalists (tree huggers) were born. Yes glad they are here but . don't complain about nobody doing anything cause your house burned down but at the same time protest cause they wanted to put in a new water line for your neighborhood

So tough to judge these players as being nothing but bad this season. Sad thing is we said that the past 3 seasons . The lack of goals we have scored is kept us in the basement . lots of lost 1 goal games ...same as the past few seasons .
- cabin

My point is Girgs has been better than good in the past, he had "wow" moments on his own, with worse teams. He should be judged on his own merits, and he isn't as good as he could/should be, but he doesn't receive criticism in the same way as players who actually produce

Botts is still green here and good things will take some time . Thanks for the reassurance we could possible be in good hands.
- cabin

Honestly, I'm as excited to see what buffalo does as I am the Pens right now. I love the hockey market, love the interesting position they're in, have a friend playing in Rochester so that also doesn't hurt lol. But, yeah, I think the next few years will be fun.

Botts is still green here and good things will take some time . Thanks for the reassurance we could possible be in good hands.
- cabin

stinks is still sinky

i don't think he is either. but in the world of expectations

massive trade, 7.5 mil, core spot>>>mid first rounder, 1.6 mil
- Sabresfan-365

This right here is why this way of measuring things is DUMB DUMB DUMB.

ROR is a 33rd overall and Girgs is 14th overall.

But ROR is “underperforming” and “good effort” is all we need from ZG

He also doesn't play 800 minutes a night, he's a bottom 6 player.

It's not like anyone wants Girgensons in O'Reillys role
- sbroads24

Girgs was taken 9 spots before the all important Sanguinetti/White Position.

This right here is why this way of measuring things is DUMB DUMB DUMB.

ROR is a 33rd overall and Girgs is 14th overall.

But ROR is “underperforming” and “good effort” is all we need from ZG
- Der Kaiser

stinks is still something that smells

Girgs was taken 9 spots before the all important Sanguinetti/White Position.
- Der Kaiser

stinks is still something that smells

My point is Girgs has been better than good in the past, he had "wow" moments on his own, with worse teams. He should be judged on his own merits, and he isn't as good as he could/should be, but he doesn't receive criticism in the same way as players who actually produce
- jcragcrumple

Girgs has been busting his ass out there every shift ive seen. But not paid like ROR. also not scorin like him either. Player like him should have a ton of assists. but he needs to be feeding goal scores,finishers. The team needs them badly

stinks is still something that smells
- homiedclown

I though "sinky" was a cute way of putting it . well done .

What's Girgerenko then? If girgs is a bust?

Expectations of a mid 1st round pick are low.
Look back at our sabres history , not sure if bust is the right terminology. Still feel he's a bit underachieving , not bust territory.

Just an opinion.

Rather move larson then girgs
- Boss34

Right up until you trade them for Lehner.

Right up until you trade them for Lehner.
- Der Kaiser

You are wise sir Kaiser

The enemy is tied with me for 2nd in the division.

Gonna be a fun week.

http://fantasy.hockeybuzz.com/hbsl/boxscore/570

Girgs has been busting his ass out there every shift ive seen. But not paid like ROR. also not scorin like him either. Player like him should have a ton of assists. but he needs to be feeding goal scores,finishers. The team needs them badly
- cabin

This goes back to what I said earlier, every discussion becomes a referendum on the ways ROR is underperforming, despite him being on pace for 20 goals while playing with Pouliot and Okposo, and now girgensons.

The only arguments I've heard are about how a former 15 goal scorer who is on pace for 3 goals this year is paid less than a bona fide 2nd liner playing with bottom six players.