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Forums :: Blog World :: Michael Pachla: With Sabres in a deep rut and out of answers, what will Botterill do?
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Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 8:41 PM ET
Toews career zone starts: O-Zone 59.4% D-Zone 40.6%. Look at that defensive mother(frank)er.
Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The centre of the hockey universe
Joined: 07.31.2006

Nov 19 @ 8:45 PM ET
Nonsense! He was 2nd overall! He needs to be the bestest!
- Wetbandit1

Wouldn't he just have to be the 2nd bestest?
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 8:55 PM ET
Toews career zone starts: O-Zone 59.4% D-Zone 40.6%. Look at that defensive mother(frank)er.
- Wetbandit1


if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up


Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:01 PM ET
Wouldn't he just have to be the 2nd bestest?
- Atomic Wedgie


First forward taken.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:02 PM ET
if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365

Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority
IonSabres
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I said that months ago, keep up!, FL
Joined: 03.10.2013

Nov 19 @ 9:03 PM ET
Do you watch hockey?
- Matthews_Auston


Inside joke, apparently like a Vanek slapshot over you head into the top shelf where Momma hides the cookies.
Next time, don’t show your ignorance so blatantly, it reflects poorly on yo7.
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:03 PM ET
Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority

- sbroads24


oh i didnt even see that. yeah that would mean he's taken like 0 neutral zone draws
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:06 PM ET
Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority

- sbroads24


5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%
Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:09 PM ET
if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365


Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:10 PM ET
Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.

- Wetbandit1


stop using hockeyreference and include neutral zone
Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:10 PM ET
Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority

- sbroads24


Depends on the site. Hockey reference uses O and D zones only, no neutral zone, because let's be honest just outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.
Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:11 PM ET
stop using hockeyreference and include neutral zone

- Sabresfan-365


Corsica is still slow as (frank).

Plus, 5 feet outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.

And it treats everyone equally. It's not like it's giving one guy more than another.
Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:13 PM ET
5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%

- Sabresfan-365


Ideally it would say which side of center ice they're taken. Because it makes a big difference.
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:14 PM ET
Corsica is still slow as (frank).

Plus, 5 feet outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.

And it treats everyone equally. It's not like it's giving one guy more than another.

- Wetbandit1


does it actually say that's how it's being calculated? and what about centre ice faceoffs?

Regardless, even if you consider it a defensive faceoff (i don't personally) taking the draw outside the zone and losing it is less likely to result in sustained possession in the o-zone for the other team than if it were taken at either faceoff circle.
Sabresfan-365
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Lockport, NY
Joined: 12.09.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:14 PM ET
Ideally it would say which side of center ice they're taken. Because it makes a big difference.
- Wetbandit1



Agreed, it still illustrates the point you were making to gerbe but i prefer it split like this
Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Hail Satan
Joined: 10.07.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:19 PM ET
Agreed, it still illustrates the point you were making to gerbe but i prefer it split like this
- Sabresfan-365


Ok then, throw out the zone starts, he's got 10 less takeaways in 147 less games than Toews. Isn't that why Datsyuk was always considered amazing? That's what they always showed when he won the Selkes.

He's just not fortunate enough to win 3 Cups and play in Chicago.
gipper0073
Joined: 02.03.2010

Nov 19 @ 9:21 PM ET
Any chance we can send Jack and Risto down to the big club in Roch...so they can experience some winning?
Der Kaiser
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I Know Nothink ... NOTHINK!
Joined: 07.27.2007

Nov 19 @ 9:24 PM ET
if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365



Pollution.

Baloney sliced thin.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:26 PM ET
Ok then, throw out the zone starts, he's got 10 less takeaways in 147 less games than Toews. Isn't that why Datsyuk was always considered amazing? That's what they always showed when he won the Selkes.

He's just not fortunate enough to win 3 Cups and play in Chicago.

- Wetbandit1

I don’t think there is a huge difference between O’Reilly and Toews, besides Toews being a much better goal scorer at Oreilly’s age.

Both are over rated, and niether compare to Patrice Bergeron or Datsyuk in terms of defensive forwards
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Nov 19 @ 9:27 PM ET
Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.

- Wetbandit1


O’Reilly is so underrated on here it’s ridiculous

And I haven’t seen any of his detractors acknowledge how Jack is freed up so much more offensively bc ROR is taking on such a heavy defensive workload

Anyone who thinks that doesn’t “make a difference” is clueless!
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Nov 19 @ 9:28 PM ET
5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%

- Sabresfan-365



And O’Reilly’s numbers please?
Der Kaiser
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I Know Nothink ... NOTHINK!
Joined: 07.27.2007

Nov 19 @ 9:29 PM ET
I don’t think there is a huge difference between O’Reilly and Toews, besides Toews being a much better goal scorer at Oreilly’s age.

Both are over rated, and niether compare to Patrice Bergeron or Datsyuk in terms of defensive forwards

- sbroads24



ROR is torching Bergeron this year.

I know he’s not playing, but if Kane and Bogo get painted with the injury brush, so does Bergeron.
IonSabres
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I said that months ago, keep up!, FL
Joined: 03.10.2013

Nov 19 @ 9:29 PM ET
I don’t get why ROR is taking as much heat on here as I have read. There are probably 20+ players who should be targeted before him, imho.

I recall that he was brought in as a 2 way center who could play against the oppositions top line to free Jack from that burden. His roll was that of support personnel, not ever thought to be “the man”, yet he pulls all the D assignments. He ain’t the problem.

He also isn’t the leader of the team. Though he along with other seasoned Vets who were counted on to steer the ship have failed miserably. He isn’t the leader that was expected.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:31 PM ET
O’Reilly is so underrated on here it’s ridiculous

And I haven’t seen any of his detractors acknowledge how Jack is freed up so much more offensively bc ROR is taking on such a heavy defensive workload

Anyone who thinks that doesn’t “make a difference” is clueless!

- jdfitz77

“Defensive workload” is an over rated term in hockey.

You realize he’s on the ice to produce offense first, like his “defensive responsibility” isn’t to sit in his zone for a minute and a half. It’s to play offense
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Nov 19 @ 9:33 PM ET
ROR is torching Bergeron this year.

I know he’s not playing, but if Kane and Bogo get painted with the injury brush, so does Bergeron.

- Der Kaiser

Bergeron has 12 points in 14 games. How is he torching him?

And hasn’t O’Reilly missed like 10-15 games each of the last few years?
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