Seabrook and Keith are both at that stage in their careers where astute management would be looking to manage their minutes. How do you do that? By having pairs 2 and 3 pick off some of those minutes. And I honestly think that is what management has been trying to do. And I think they are poised to have some success along those lines this year. Certainly more than the last couple years. Here is hoping the bottom two pairs continue to develop. Realistic Cup dreams require it.

is it just me or is Q just trying to piss everybody off by sitting Kero over Bouma for a game. Ha, Also hammer signed a 4 year deal at 3.5 Mil which for a top 4 defender that is a RFA is pretty fair. The hawks wanted a 2 year at probably at 2.75 to 3 but then would have had to pay more then 3.5 after that. So I don't think he was under paid it just had more term which means a higher AAV.

is it just me or is Q just trying to piss everybody off by sitting Kero over Bouma for a game. Ha, Also hammer signed a 4 year deal at 3.5 Mil which for a top 4 defender that is a RFA is pretty fair. The hawks wanted a 2 year at probably at 2.75 to 3 but then would have had to pay more then 3.5 after that. So I don't think he was under paid it just had more term which means a higher AAV.
- kmw4631

Hjammer only had one full season under his belt at that point though, so at the time, $3.5m was more than market value. Buf got $3 x 3 after one season. And more term is usually added to keep AAV down. So he was overpaid on his 2nd contract and was offset by the amount he took on his 3rd. Reverse of the Kruger situation. No complaints on how it unfolded at all but Hjammer did force their hand by signing an offer sheet.

Seabrook and Keith are both at that stage in their careers where astute management would be looking to manage their minutes. How do you do that? By having pairs 2 and 3 pick off some of those minutes. And I honestly think that is what management has been trying to do. And I think they are poised to have some success along those lines this year. Certainly more than the last couple years. Here is hoping the bottom two pairs continue to develop. Realistic Cup dreams require it.
- 35Tony0

I would have to agree. While the coaches and management can't slow down aging, they can manage the situation by gradually sheltering Keith and Seabrook by giving more minutes and responsibility to the other defensemen. Are the others ready? Some are, some aren't but they eventually won't have a choice or else the wheels just come flying off because of an over reliance on 2 and 7. While not chaotic yet, controlled chaos is better than letting chaos run its course.

The context was on how he played against the Leafs and I wasn't making an argument outside of that.
- breadbag

The fact is Matthews and the Leafs have made a lot of teams and individual players look bad because the Leafs are kinda good.

Hjammer only had one full season under his belt at that point though, so at the time, $3.5m was more than market value. Buf got $3 x 3 after one season. And more term is usually added to keep AAV down. So he was overpaid on his 2nd contract and was offset by the amount he took on his 3rd. Reverse of the Kruger situation. No complaints on how it unfolded at all but Hjammer did force their hand by signing an offer sheet.
- L_B_R

On RFA's more term means they get more per year. That is why 1 or 2 years bridge deals are always cheaper then 4-6 year deals. See SAAD LEDDY ETC. the fact that hawks could not afford a Longer term deal does not mean it was not FMV. Murphy singed a 3.9 instead of a Bridge deal. on UFA's more Term typically means less per year.

Seabrook has the best point shot on the team, except maybe Franson who is slower than Sheldon Souray or Andy Delmore.
- John Jaeckel

Seabrook has an accurate as well as hard shot. Scored how many huge goals for the hawks? A bunch. But Forsling is the closest thing I've seen to Doug Wilson as a left handed shooter. Have to admit I haven't focused on Franson so much. But I don't like the idea of two slow point men at the same time. I'd prefer they give Forsling the PP time that Franson is going to get. And give DK as much rest as possible. Difference between the mustache and myself I guess.

Not really gonna argue that he has lost . . . something . . . and is not worth $6.875 mil a season. But the devil you know . . .

Some other team's "Top 4 defenseman," the new best hockey player in the world to some Hawk fans, who Stanley is gonna go out and get for a bag of pucks, probably has blemishes too.
- John Jaeckel

That's kind of the point. While he has looked pretty visibly bad in some instances, its not like the rest of the team is busting out doors with stellar play.

Except Saad and Crow.

When Q says someone has been "fine", that means they're just this side of "suck".
- tompo1015

But you have to read mustache movement, level of brow furrowing, sideways glances, intensity of glare, and fingers tightening on the podium.

"He's fine" can mean anything from "I have no worries about that player" to "I want him on a (frank)ing bus tonight"

Not sure if having a #2 Defenseman that's only as good as most teams 3/4 defenseman while making 7 mil per season is a problem other teams wish they had...
- SimpleJack

Ideally, Seabs contract was supposed to allow him to be replaced by a younger option while he recedes to 3d or 4d from 2d. Unfortunately, that assumes the 2d replacement can be acquired or drafted... It also assumes the head coach is interested in mentoring/developing that player/s. Seems to be happening with Rutta and not happening (so far) with Murphy.

Can't help but wonder where Ulf is on these scratches? Maybe there is a method to press boxing LM but they need to avoid this becoming a Daly like situation.... Which looks very much now like Q was attempting to undermine Bowman.... and really may have ended up backfiring as it was certainly one of the reasons his buddy Kitchen got fired.

Like all great coaches Q is seriously temperamental and needs to control that ego. It is was clear Q hated seeing Hammer traded... Q may want to study the Ditka era some - this is starting to parallel the Ditka/Flutie fiasco in ways.

But you have to read mustache movement, level of brow furrowing, sideways glances, intensity of glare, and fingers tightening on the podium.

"He's fine" can mean anything from "I have no worries about that player" to "I want him on a (frank)ing bus tonight"
- kinigitt

"He's Fine" is one step above "He's been okay"

Speaking of the present, some got their wish of Keith being taken off the 1st PP unit.
Blackhawks lines:
Saad-Toews-Panik
Hartman-Schmaltz-Kane
Sharp-Anisimov-DeBrincat
Bouma-Wingels-Hayden

Kero here, but not on a line.

PP1: Schmaltz-Hartman-Kane, Seabrook-Sharp

PP2: Keith, Toews-Panik-Saad-DeBrincat
- L_B_R

Excellent !! Debrincat on the point of the 2nd unit since he's the only right handed shot ?? Can't imagine Panik or Saad on the point and 19 probably not an option either.

"He's Fine" is one step above "He's been okay"
- breadbag

It should be anyhow. Really hard to judge without video

Seabs has looked out of step since last year. The decline seemed really quick. He's been turnstyled a few times this season, has difficulty keeping pucks in and definitely doesn't play the physical brand of hockey I remember, i.e., crushing Corry Perry, etc.


Somewhat related is Franson actually an upgrade over Murphy?

Murphy provides what the Hawks have needed for awhile- a defenseman with snarl.

In 2016 Daley got in Q's dog house and I think having him as a 4th D would have greatly helped us in that 7 game series with St. Louis, especially with Keith suspended in the 1st game. Just hope the same thing doesn't happen with Murphy...

Seabs has looked out of step since last year. The decline seemed really quick. He's been turnstyled a few times this season, has difficulty keeping pucks in and definitely doesn't play the physical brand of hockey I remember, i.e., crushing Corry Perry, etc.


Somewhat related is Franson actually an upgrade over Murphy?

Murphy provides what the Hawks have needed for awhile- a defenseman with snarl.

In 2016 Daley got in Q's dog house and I think having him as a 4th D would have greatly helped us in that 7 game series with St. Louis, especially with Keith suspended in the 1st game. Just hope the same thing doesn't happen with Murphy...
- Popsghostly

Not at all, except on the offensive side and PP. Franson is horrid in his own end. his high dangers shots allowed are disgusting.

Seabs has looked out of step since last year. The decline seemed really quick. He's been turnstyled a few times this season, has difficulty keeping pucks in and definitely doesn't play the physical brand of hockey I remember, i.e., crushing Corry Perry, etc.


Somewhat related is Franson actually an upgrade over Murphy?

Murphy provides what the Hawks have needed for awhile- a defenseman with snarl.

In 2016 Daley got in Q's dog house and I think having him as a 4th D would have greatly helped us in that 7 game series with St. Louis, especially with Keith suspended in the 1st game. Just hope the same thing doesn't happen with Murphy...
- Popsghostly

Seabs has never had great footwork. Now that he is a little older and slower it is much more noticeable. You need to start asking the questions as to why he has slowed down. Is it just accumulation of minutes and yearly pounding, maybe. Is it not coming into camp/the season in the best shape anymore, maybe. Is it that he is married w/kids and a little complacent at this point, maybe. He is still a useful player and a top 4 d-man on any team in this league, on some teams he would even be top pair.

Penguins have proved that you can win a cup (cups) with questionable D, backed by strong goaltending. As many here have said, in a capped league there will be a weakness somewhere. It's all in how you compensate and cover that weakness.

Seabrook has an accurate as well as hard shot. Scored how many huge goals for the hawks? A bunch. But Forsling is the closest thing I've seen to Doug Wilson as a left handed shooter. Have to admit I haven't focused on Franson so much. But I don't like the idea of two slow point men at the same time. I'd prefer they give Forsling the PP time that Franson is going to get. And give DK as much rest as possible. Difference between the mustache and myself I guess.
- 6628

For that matter, Kempny can blast it from the left side too. The thing I think they're missing (and have been since 2011 when they traded the REAL Campbell away) is a guy who can "QB" the power play from back there.

That's kind of the point. While he has looked pretty visibly bad in some instances, its not like the rest of the team is busting out doors with stellar play.

Except Saad and Crow.
- fattybeef

With ya, 100%.

is it just me or is Q just trying to piss everybody off by sitting Kero over Bouma for a game. Ha, Also hammer signed a 4 year deal at 3.5 Mil which for a top 4 defender that is a RFA is pretty fair. The hawks wanted a 2 year at probably at 2.75 to 3 but then would have had to pay more then 3.5 after that. So I don't think he was under paid it just had more term which means a higher AAV.
- kmw4631

They do different jobs, it's not an either/or. If anything, he is sitting Kero for Wingels.

I'm saying they cannot trade Seabrook for someone of lesser value now / in-season because it would hurt their chances for this year too much. Key word being now. The fact that Hjammer was traded for a lower value player but who is a nod to them looking out for the future is exactly why they can't do the same thing with Seabrook. It's why I said the Hawks are balancing the present and future - Hjammer was moved for the future, Seabrook stays for the present.

Sometimes people like to play armchair GM for future seasons too much and aren't looking at what is best for the present team. To each their own, I guess.

And they've played 6 games, dude. I don't know how the season is going to roll out, and unless you have a crystal ball, you don't either. I do know that I don't want them to waste a year of Toews, Kane, and Keith not going for it and that Seabrook right now is more helpful than the likely return they'd get for him in-season. Also after the Pens winning last year, anything is possible because that was a not good team.
- L_B_R

I never said or implied they should trade Seabrook NOW--in season. The time to move him was during the off season.
You can't say trading Seabrook would "hurt their chances" because you don't know what the return would have been.

Don't kid yourself, the Pens were a very good team, the last two Cup year. Besides, it isn't the Pens the Blackhawks need to beat to get the Finals--it's most probably Nashville. Or, at least, the Cup will go thru Nashville. No, I have no crystal ball, but I don't see the changes done this off season making this team dramatically better, than they team that was swept last season, esp with an aging and slowing Seabrook.

They do different jobs, it's not an either/or. If anything, he is sitting Kero for Wingels.
- John Jaeckel

Kero, Wingels or Bouma....it doesn’t matter much which one sits. I’m just glad Q is still playing Hayden. Of the first three I think Wingels is the only one that certainly deserves to play above the others. But at the end of the day Kero vs Bouma isn’t a big difference.

Kero, Wingels or Bouma....it doesn’t matter much which one sits. I’m just glad Q is still playing Hayden. Of the first three I think Wingels is the only one that certainly deserves to play above the others. But at the end of the day Kero vs Bouma isn’t a big difference.
- DarthKane

I think Wingles and Hayden are 2 very solid 4th liners compared to most NHL teams. Kero has potential to be a solid 4C as well, but he needs to play better.

Kero, Wingels or Bouma....it doesn’t matter much which one sits. I’m just glad Q is still playing Hayden. Of the first three I think Wingels is the only one that certainly deserves to play above the others. But at the end of the day Kero vs Bouma isn’t a big difference.
- DarthKane

One can kill penalties, and carry the puck, and help cycle in the zone, and the other one is Bouma.

So quantify this. I'm not disagreeing per se. But you can't say that and just support it with this guy or that guy is "better."

My point is, it's really hard, even with Corsi, unless you really, really dig into it and add a lot of context, to make an apples to apples comparison of Seabrook with another team's 3/4 defenseman.

The contract is a problem, longer term, but really not right now.
- John Jaeckel

I'm just basing it on eye test. He doesn't look like a solid #2/top pairing defenseman anymore. Because of his mobility issues he's forced into way too many mistakes and is constantly getting beat/burned badly.

But yeah we can mask it for now if the rest of the Dcore picks up the slack and we're able to limit his minutes.

I never said or implied they should trade Seabrook NOW--in season. The time to move him was during the off season.
You can't say trading Seabrook would "hurt their chances" because you don't know what the return would have been.

Don't kid yourself, the Pens were a very good team, the last two Cup year. Besides, it isn't the Pens the Blackhawks need to beat to get the Finals--it's most probably Nashville. Or, at least, the Cup will go thru Nashville. No, I have no crystal ball, but I don't see the changes done this off season making this team dramatically better, than they team that was swept last season, esp with an aging and slowing Seabrook.
- tompo1015

With all your talk of needing to move on for Seabrook for the better of the team, it's hard to tell that you don't mean now. How would anyone know you're talking about the past when all you keep talking about is the future lol? And yes, we do know it would hurt their chances, unless as I said before, the return was for a player of similar value to the team. But how many teams are trading top 2/4 guys like that right now?

I'm not kidding myself about the Pens. They had subpar shot attempt share, scoring chances were low, and a suspect defense (Dumoulin was their #1, Hainsey was their #2 ffs) - they visibly looked terrible large chucks of the year and playoffs. But their goalies carried them through the difficult series, they score opportune goals, and they met up with a hurt / tired team in the final. They were pretty good in 2016, they just didn't perform as well in 2017. Not that it matters cause they won it all both time but it shows that in a cap league, teams can have areas of weakness and still contend / win.