DD not doing it for you?
- A_SteamingLombardi

Sums up my opinion on DD's work nicely.

Isn't Hamhuis still hanging on the side of Rogers?
- A_SteamingLombardi

I guess even the Rogers Arena staff doesn't care anymore

Its always those players you love to have but hate to play against. I think that comes with having a good team, they get a little cocky/swagger. VAN does not have that
- WhiteLie

True, but I think some of it is natural as well. I also think there's a difference between being cocky and having a guy who'll do anything to win, even borderline stuff.

I'd say Goldobin is definitely cocky, but he's far from a guy who'll do anything it takes to win.

Interesting

I kind of assumed the opposite since GM's/agents usually value RFA years less. I've heard/read when they negotiate long term deals with RFA's, they actually negotiate the RFA and UFA years separately and then just combine it into one big contract.

Buying UFA years is always more expensive for the team from what I've read/heard.

i'd assume a 2-3 year bridge deal would be at around 4.2M-4.7M and long term would be at around 6M-6.5M give or take a few hundred thousands.
- Nucker101

This makes sense and Codes has it backwards on the term and money.

But your argument for long term over bridge only makes sense cap management wise if Bo's demand isn't so high. If setting precedents that players like BB etc will outmatch and put the team into cap problems too early on the rebuild.

I don't know man, maybe I did. But I was more stupid, I mean I was fully into Corsi back then

I just think I'm wired a bit differently compared to most here. I love seeing a good discussion on a hockey website. Other people get angered/worried/scared/annoyed when they do, and I'm not sure why. If there's trolling involved then yeah, that's annoying to read. It's not like this is some old re-hashed discussion on why Benning sucks or Sutter is overpaid.

But I prefer this 100% over the usual one liners, fishing/beer/wife updates(no offense to the older gentlemen) and making fun of the posters that say stupid things everyday.
- Nucker101

yeah i get that and i agree that better hockey discussion is needed.

your series of posts re: bo's contract seem a lot like your obsession about subban being sent down and his feelings. long story short: much ado about nothing.

Its always those players you love to have but hate to play against. I think that comes with having a good team, they get a little cocky/swagger. VAN does not have that
- WhiteLie

I can't remember exactly the season but the canucks were coming out of the Messier years and starting to once again form an identity. We had a bunch of young players named Kesler, Burrows, cook, Schafer, etc. They hadn't proved a thing and yet they bleached their hair that poopty yellow colour and talked poop non stop on the ice to everyone. Comments about wives... no holds barred.

I remember reading an article about some opposing team's vets female doging about these punks acting like they did. Who the (frank) were they to behave that way.

I loved it as a fan and it was effective on the ice.

This makes sense and Codes has it backwards on the term and money.

But your argument for long term over bridge only makes sense cap management wise if Bo's demand isn't so high. If setting precedents that players like BB etc will outmatch and put the team into cap problems too early on the rebuild.
- Nuck4U

Part 22

yeah i get that and i agree that better hockey discussion is needed.

your series of posts re: bo's contract seem a lot like your obsession about subban being sent down and his feelings. long story short: much ado about nothing.
- RealityChecker

How so? I'd say cap implications matter in today's NHL. A lot more than Subban's feelings.

This makes sense and Codes has it backwards on the term and money.

But your argument for long term over bridge only makes sense cap management wise if Bo's demand isn't so high. If setting precedents that players like BB etc will outmatch and put the team into cap problems too early on the rebuild.
- Nuck4U

Yeah, the other counter point to go along with what RC said about having more years locked up with a bridge deal + long term contract after is that the team does set a dangerous precedent with future RFA's who are coming off of a good season.

I'd say the 3rd argument is the risk that the young player doesn't continue improving and you get stuck with RNH/Eberle contracts that are far from good value long-term and forced you to overpay short term as well.

I can't put my finger on it but I do miss some of that attitude Kesler brought to the team. I mentioned this yesterday but I miss the antagonizing player style our team used to play.
- bloatedmosquito

i think this is a natural reaction to a team in flux.

the team has no identity. they are not defined by a player or even a style of play. they are defined as what they were.

added to this is their best young player is the typical canadian hockey personality.

so, as the team's new identity emerges, i think we'll some "attitude," kesler-like or not.

I can't remember exactly the season but the canucks were coming out of the Messier years and starting to once again form an identity. We had a bunch of young players named Kesler, Burrows, cook, Schafer, etc. They hadn't proved a thing and yet they bleached their hair that poopty yellow colour and talked poop non stop on the ice to everyone. Comments about wives... no holds barred.

I remember reading an article about some opposing team's vets female doging about these punks acting like they did. Who the (frank) were they to behave that way.

I loved it as a fan and it was effective on the ice.
- bloatedmosquito

As much as I like diving into the numbers....

I agree 100%

True, but I think some of it is natural as well. I also think there's a difference between being cocky and having a guy who'll do anything to win, even borderline stuff.

I'd say Goldobin is definitely cocky, but he's far from a guy who'll do anything it takes to win.
- Nucker101

Cocky/swagger is a little different for everyone. I remember JV has a bit of a poop disturber attitude when he first showed up, Goldobin's seems to be a skill-based confidence. When a team is winning/hot streak they are confident, and when they are confident everyone walks a little taller, tries a few new moves and then rubs the opponents face in it

Skip Prokop RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTDzDviQvDo

Part 22
- Codes1087

Did you hear they are coming out with like 5 Joker movies. Martin Scorsese's doing the first one. Young Joker and why his relationship with his parents turned him into the misunderstood villain we've come to know.

Milk that cow!

I can't remember exactly the season but the canucks were coming out of the Messier years and starting to once again form an identity. We had a bunch of young players named Kesler, Burrows, cook, Schafer, etc. They hadn't proved a thing and yet they bleached their hair that poopty yellow colour and talked poop non stop on the ice to everyone. Comments about wives... no holds barred.

I remember reading an article about some opposing team's vets female doging about these punks acting like they did. Who the (frank) were they to behave that way.

I loved it as a fan and it was effective on the ice.
- bloatedmosquito

it was great. I have hope that a few of the kids are kept together in the AHL, have some success, and bring that up to the big club in the future

Did you hear they are coming out with like 5 Joker movies. Martin Scorsese's doing the first one. Young Joker and why his relationship with his parents turned him into the misunderstood villain we've come to know.

Milk that cow!
- bloatedmosquito

I did not know this. It doesn't surprise me though. Every Marvel/DC movie now has a spinoff on the origin or side story of every single character ever created lol.

How so? I'd say cap implications matter in today's NHL. A lot more than Subban's feelings.
- Nucker101

but your argument is similar to another poster who says "they have no systems!?!?!?!?" just b/c he doesn't see them.

you can argue that a long term deal is better but don't be so sure.

this is a 100s of millions of dollar business. i'm sure they've run multiple modeling simulations based on projections of the cap.

they may still be wrong but it's not as simple as "long term good; bridge deal bad."

Hey guys,

In the new blog, I look at why we're hearing about a Bo Horvat bridge deal today and what we can expect going forward as the radio wars begin:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...er-Canucks-news/194/87172

i think this is a natural reaction to a team in flux.

the team has no identity. they are not defined by a player or even a style of play. they are defined as what they were.

added to this is there best young player is the typical canadian hockey personality.

so, as the team's new identity emerges, i think we'll some "attitude," kesler-like or not.
- RealityChecker

I like Bo a lot but he does have a bit of that Captain Serious aura about him. If that is the case you will have to get another personality to offset that. Much like a Kane does for Toews.

AND I"M NOT SAYING BO IS OF THE SAME SKILL SET AT TOEWS. PERSONALITY ONLY!

I like Bo a lot but he does have a bit of that Captain Serious aura about him. If that is the case you will have to get another personality to offset that. Much like a Kane does for Toews.

AND I"M NOT SAYING BO IS OF THE SAME SKILL SET AT TOEWS. PERSONALITY ONLY!
- bloatedmosquito

typical canucks fan. saying that bo is exactly like toews and it's only a matter of time until the canucks are a dynasty.

typical canucks fan. saying that bo is exactly like toews and it's only a matter of time until the canucks are a dynasty.
- RealityChecker

typical canucks fan. saying that bo is exactly like toews and it's only a matter of time until the canucks are a dynasty.
- RealityChecker

I bumped it to the new thread. So many folks don't hang in there when a new blog is posted.

but your argument is similar to another poster who says "they have no systems!?!?!?!?" just b/c he doesn't see them.

you can argue that a long term deal is better but don't be so sure.

this is a 100s of millions of dollar business. i'm sure they've run multiple modeling simulations based on projections of the cap.

they may still be wrong but it's not as simple as "long term good; bridge deal bad."
- RealityChecker

I just posted an opinion. I've actually acknowledged all the counter points that make sense. I'm sure Canucks management has had similar conversations internally.

I like that we've established a pretty good case for one or the other. I made a case for my preference and you guys did for yours.

It's obviously up for debate/discussion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having a strong preference for one side or the other. I may not have posted all the downsides to going long term but I 100% considered the 3 main concerns.

1) Player becomes UFA sooner since a bridge deal allows for another negotiation while the player is still a RFA

2) Player may not continue to improve, thus meaning the contract could be a long term overpay and not save any future dollars

3) Precedent set for future RFA's on team(arguably a good thing if Horvat's deal is strong value).

I still prefer the upside of going long term now

I bumped it to the new thread. So many folks don't hang in there when a new blog is posted.
- bloatedmosquito

aka booner syndrome

aka booner syndrome
- RealityChecker

Where is he? He can't be doing much fishing. Most of the back country is off limits.

I like (frank)ing with him. Talk about Captain Serious...