Sharp-Toews-Hartman
Fortin/Hayden-AA-Kane
Saad-Schmaltz-Panik
Wingles-Dauphin/Kero-Hinostroza

Fast, Deep, and elite if everything clicks and falls in our favor...
- SimpleJack

I think you forgot to add you also need to have the other team's trainer fill that team's water bottles with Nyquil.

I'd say Sharp is a lot more likely to be a 3rd liner than Saad. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he plays some 3rd line C. I'd also be shocked if Saad isn't on Toews' LW.
- Ogilthorpe2

I agree with you, but if I had it my way those would be my lines.

I believe its more Stanbo getting rid of Q's crutches...
- riozzo

That is a solid observation. Could be correct.
Ideally a prospect eventually is good enough to become the descent part of a third pairing.Niw we would be ecstatic if a prospect was to eventually even be spotted in the first or second pair.....so that someone on the top two pairings could occasionally play in the third pair.

This would be appropriate if prospect(s) develop nicely under Samuelson tutelage. There would be occasions when a different look is desired in a five man unit. I could imagine Kane looks to get a Forsling slap shot or Kempny to deliver a big check on someone someone who is smoking our third line.

Would be a positive development if two prospects by season end progress to this sort of usage

That is a solid observation. Could be correct.
Ideally a prospect eventually is good enough to become the descent part of a third pairing.Niw we would be ecstatic if a prospect was to eventually even be spotted in the first or second pair.....so that someone on the top two pairings could occasionally play in the third pair.

This would be appropriate if prospect(s) develop nicely under Samuelson tutelage. There would be occasions when a different look is desired in a five man unit. I could imagine Kane looks to get a Forsling slap shot or Kempny to deliver a big check on someone someone who is smoking our third line.

Would be a positive development if two prospects by season end progress to this sort of usage
- jhawk59

So it was good to get rid of a solid young 3rd pair D-man so that Q would be forced to find another one?

I'd say Sharp is a lot more likely to be a 3rd liner than Saad. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he plays some 3rd line C. I'd also be shocked if Saad isn't on Toews' LW.
- Ogilthorpe2

3L - Sharp - Schmaltz - Hartman

I like that 3rd line a lot

4L - Bouma - Dauphin/Kero - Wingels

Bottom 6 much better next year.

I realize a surprise has to be able to hold down 2LW, but no one thought at this time last year that Panik would be a mainstay on the 1L.

Like a broken record I am, this team does well when Q can roll 4 lines. Have to get back to that model to get deep in the playoffs. Especially as guys are now starting to age a bit.

So it was good to get rid of a solid young 3rd pair D-man so that Q would be forced to find another one?
- Ogilthorpe2

Never understood what was wrong with TVR as a 6th Dman.

Have you seen who other teams throw out as their 6th Dman?

Wouldn't be surprised if he goes the route of Saad, and is back in another year when his contract is up. Or is reaquired at the TDL if none of the new younger ones step up.

Think it's a season to be an underdog and use that
to take the pressure off and get back to having fun
playing hockey
Key word being - Playing

So it was good to get rid of a solid young 3rd pair D-man so that Q would be forced to find another one?
- Ogilthorpe2

I do not think in long run he is anything special. He might be ok with fewer mistakes if he had a better partner and possibly if his pairing was with a top forward line. TVR is never going to be a second pairing stud. My hope is for a prospect to take TVR spot. I don't say it could happen from the opening game. With TVR and maybe you can say it is not as pronounced, but the prospects and TVR are going to play on the third pair because their ceiling is not any higher next season. It is conceivable a prospect may one day shine more brightly than TVR

TVR is ok but he is only a substantial loss if no one else can step in. TVR is adequate at best. Poised and potentially adequate if he has a descent partner. That's my two cents

I do not think in long run he is anything special. He might be ok with fewer mistakes if he had a better partner and possibly if his pairing was with a top forward line. TVR is never going to be a second pairing stud. My hope is for a prospect to take TVR spot. I don't say it could happen from the opening game. With TVR and maybe you can say it is not as pronounced, but the prospects and TVR are going to play on the third pair because their ceiling is not any higher next season. It is conceivable a prospect may one day shine more brightly than TVR

TVR is ok but he is only a substantial loss if no one else can step in. TVR is adequate at best. Poised and potentially adequate if he has a descent partner. That's my two cents
- jhawk59

Maybe not but when he played the right side he was dependable which is essentially what you need from a 3rd pairing dman...reliable and eat up minutes which he could do.

You could certainly do a lot worse for a 3rd pairing guy.

Never understood what was wrong with TVR as a 6th Dman.

Have you seen who other teams throw out as their 6th Dman?

Wouldn't be surprised if he goes the route of Saad, and is back in another year when his contract is up. Or is reaquired at the TDL if none of the new younger ones step up.
- vabeachbear

Wasn't TVR used as a sweetener so that VGK would take Kruger's cap hit in a trade?

3L - Sharp - Schmaltz - Hartman

I like that 3rd line a lot

4L - Bouma - Dauphin/Kero - Wingels

Bottom 6 much better next year.

I realize a surprise has to be able to hold down 2LW, but no one thought at this time last year that Panik would be a mainstay on the 1L.

Like a broken record I am, this team does well when Q can roll 4 lines. Have to get back to that model to get deep in the playoffs. Especially as guys are now starting to age a bit.
- vabeachbear

Agree right there.

Maybe not but when he played the right side he was dependable which is essentially what you need from a 3rd pairing dman...reliable and eat up minutes which he could do.

You could certainly do a lot worse for a 3rd pairing guy.
- HawkintheD

Last season for his 825K salary he didn't hurt the team. His stat line certainly wasn't bad. Positive possession numbers and positive relative to the team. He had his fair share of dzone starts (near 50-50). 3rd on the blueline in points per game (and P/60) and first in terms of goals per game (and G/60). That is with very little PP time and no points on the PP. He wasn't tagged with many giveaways (on the stat sheet) and only Keith had more takeaways per game.

He only got tagged for 7 minor penalties for the season and blocked a decent amount of shots. He paced the Hawks blueline in terms of Goals for/against at GF over 60%.

He wasn't perfect and didn't get the toughest assignments but he did his job when he was on the ice and Q played him for a reason. It was obvious that the coaches gave him the green light to join the rush more. I think the two main reasons he is gone is because

1) Expansion draft - There was very little chance the Hawks could reasonably protect him, plus he gave them an out on Krugers bad contract.
2) The Hawks clearly wanted to play a faster heavier game and TVR isn't that physical.

Hawks supposedly interested in Will Butcher. His Coach at Denver says he would be a great fit. So assuming Kempny is #4, Forsling, Ruuta, Oesterle, Gustafson, Butcher, Pokka. That's 6 defensemen battling at camp for two spots, if Rozsival is the placeholder at #7. Add to that Franson might be coming on a PTO. Add to that Snuggerud might be the surprise at camp and be the best of the bunch. Hmmmm

Hawks supposedly interested in Will Butcher. His Coach at Denver says he would be a great fit. So assuming Kempny is #4, Forsling, Ruuta, Oesterle, Gustafson, Butcher, Pokka. That's 6 defensemen battling at camp for two spots, if Rozsival is the placeholder at #7. Add to that Franson might be coming on a PTO. Add to that Snuggerud might be the surprise at camp and be the best of the bunch. Hmmmm
- Omahawk

Of the names you've listed, I hope Rutta and/or Franson if he joins would be the guys that are chosen. Simply to help with a bit more size on the back end. Murphy will help with this I'd imagine (not having seen him play too often, I'm reluctant to judge), but more depth is always wonderful. As good as it is to have guys that can rush the puck up the ice, sometimes theyre gonna have to clear the crease, and although Butcher and Gustafsson might be good at the breakout pass, are they gonna be able to help shift the likes of a Byfuglien or JVR or Wayne Simmonds from the front of the net/crease? Ideally they won't be stuck out against those guys, but still......

Maybe not but when he played the right side he was dependable which is essentially what you need from a 3rd pairing dman...reliable and eat up minutes which he could do.

You could certainly do a lot worse for a 3rd pairing guy.
- HawkintheD

True. His best attribute is that he is not bad at anything, poised, for a third pair not too bad. And that is better than some others who have been through the turnstile.

Ordinarily in past years that is satisfactory. I do see a rub here, and you doubtfully will not totally disagree with the following remarks

The league continues to get faster. New kids on the block help define skill and speed do make a difference. A defender whom is a tad slow has to be concerned. That said, I am hopeful a young defender could step in and approach TVR's reliability

But there is another issue. The wear and tear on the top two defenseman. Neither of which should continue to log the majority of TOI on the PP. Neither one btw is the ideal when on the PP. Imagine if Kane had a better option on the point. Imagine a more rested Keith and Seanrook lead the charge for a playoff spot.

Yeah, so TVR is gone. Hopefully a prospect under Samuelson tutelage works out. TVR is a tad slow and was never going to be anything more than a third pair. With all the prospects andvSamuelson on board, I a glad TVR was lost instead of let's say Panic.

Last season for his 825K salary he didn't hurt the team. His stat line certainly wasn't bad. Positive possession numbers and positive relative to the team. He had his fair share of dzone starts (near 50-50). 3rd on the blueline in points per game (and P/60) and first in terms of goals per game (and G/60). That is with very little PP time and no points on the PP. He wasn't tagged with many giveaways (on the stat sheet) and only Keith had more takeaways per game.

He only got tagged for 7 minor penalties for the season and blocked a decent amount of shots. He paced the Hawks blueline in terms of Goals for/against at GF over 60%.

He wasn't perfect and didn't get the toughest assignments but he did his job when he was on the ice and Q played him for a reason. It was obvious that the coaches gave him the green light to join the rush more. I think the two main reasons he is gone is because

1) Expansion draft - There was very little chance the Hawks could reasonably protect him, plus he gave them an out on Krugers bad contract.
2) The Hawks clearly wanted to play a faster heavier game and TVR isn't that physical.
- breadbag

I agree with your points but I think him being gone has more to do with the first than the second.

It's possible and maybe Rutta is that guy on the right side, but that remains to be seen. Is physicality part of his game? Not sure and can't remember right now from what I've read.

To Jhawk's point too, after signing Panik there was no way they were exposing him and I agree he is more of what the team needs not less.

Wasn't TVR used as a sweetener so that VGK would take Kruger's cap hit in a trade?
- StLBravesFan

He was, supposedly, that whole thing is still very weird. Be interesting if the real story comes out eventually.

My comment was more about the beatin TVR took here from some posters.

He isn't a top 4 dman, but he wasn't paid like one, he was a 5 or a 6 who could play 12-14 mins a night. Not sure why many didn't care for him.

Also not sure why Carolina traded for him. D is their deepest position, and they are locking up their young guys long term.

He isn't a top 4 dman, but he wasn't paid like one, he was a 5 or a 6 who could play 12-14 mins a night. Not sure why many didn't care for him.
- vabeachbear

Bear, many didn't care for him because he was overused by Q.
Many of us wouldn't have a problem with him playing 12 min/night and used in the right situations.

As he is wont to do, Q overused the guy, played him on his off-side far too often (where he was far less effective than on his strong side) and paired him up with the wrong partner.

He's simply an "OK" player -- and played in the right situations with the right partner is perfectly fine as a 3rd pair guy.

Now, if he had some qualities/attributes that would have allowed him to be more than that, fine. But I personally got tired of him getting turnstiled/beat to pucks because the guy was nothing more than an adequate-to-poor skater. Not quick. Not mobile. Certainly not fast. A "meh" shot. Certainly not a puck-carrier or a great passer. Again, adequate.

For me, a 3rd pair guy. Nothing more. Skating him 1st pair or 2nd pair minutes was wrong. Simple as that. Great for the $ as a 12 min/night guy.