In what sense? He was playing behind Henrik and Morrison and his role was much different. When Morrison left Kesler was thrust into more of the role Bo was/is in. - LeftCoaster
Well...he didn't hit horvats numbers until he was 24 for starters
Well...he didn't hit horvats numbers until he was 24 for starters - CanuckDon
It's not that black and white Don. Canucks had two guys better than him and development isn't a linear thing. Look I said I love the kid, he'll be a good second line center I just wrote....that's my opinion.
He'll never be a first line center on a good team imo.
It's not that black and white Don. Canucks had two guys better than him and development isn't a linear thing. Look I said I love the kid, he'll be a good second line center I just wrote....that's my opinion.
He'll never be a first line center on a good team imo. - LeftCoaster
But your avatar is black and white...I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm not trying to proclaim Horvat as a future stud 1 C I just don't agree with placing ceilings on young players especially when they have Horvats drive. All good Hefty, you are a good poster
Location: 2028 Stanley Cup Champions Joined: 11.10.2006
May 13 @ 3:42 AM ET
But your avatar is black and white...I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm not trying to proclaim Horvat as a future stud 1 C I just don't agree with placing ceilings on young players especially when they have Horvats drive. All good Hefty, you are a good poster - CanuckDon
C'mon Don... If you aren't willing to project realistic floors & ceilings for players based on their [observable traits/abilities & intangibles] - (aka skillset), then I don't know what to say... That's pretty much what scouting is.
C'mon Don... If you aren't willing to project realistic floors & ceilings for players based on their - DrChristianTroy[observable traits/abilities & intangibles] - (aka skillset), then I don't know what to say... That's pretty much what scouting is.
Ultimately we are evaluating Horvats skill set differently so we will never agree on his ceiling or floor. All good. I guess it's something we will need to revisit when he is 25. I've already copied a few of your posts for the year 2020
C'mon Don... If you aren't willing to project realistic floors & ceilings for players based on their - DrChristianTroy[observable traits/abilities & intangibles] - (aka skillset), then I don't know what to say... That's pretty much what scouting is.
How did Ondrej Kase drop from 8th in euro skaters in central scouting to 205OA!!!
Location: 2028 Stanley Cup Champions Joined: 11.10.2006
May 13 @ 3:58 AM ET
Ultimately we are evaluating Horvats skill set differently so we will never agree on his ceiling or floor. All good. I guess it's something we will need to revisit when he is 25. I've already copied a few of your posts for the year 2020 - CanuckDon
I don't think you're batsh!t crazy, I just don't agree with the type of development you believe can occur within the skillset of a 22yr old hockey player. He'll continue to develop within his skillset for sure, as most players do. - DrChristianTroy
I know you have used that before as that you either have it or you don't. But I don't think that skillset is set like height. You grow and that's it. It's more like weight. As an example, some can add it properly and change their metabolism.
As we saw with skating. Bo took a disadvantage issue, and not only improved it, but made it a weapon for him. So I wouldn't count out that a person with the hockey IQ and dedication of Bo can't add a skill set he doesn't have now. It's rare. Sure. But so is what we have seen what Bo is as a hockey player. He's just driven not to perfect something he does well but also add to his game something he didn't have before.
Ultimately we are evaluating Horvats skill set differently so we will never agree on his ceiling or floor. All good. I guess it's something we will need to revisit when he is 25. I've already copied a few of your posts for the year 2020 - CanuckDon
What i cant figure out that on a poopty team how he can produce like a top 2LC but only have a 3LC ceiling. Playing with better players he would improve also. Wouldnt he? Hes sure doing that for Baert.
GMs do talk about that stuff...thats why they arrange fishing trips etc
Sometimes they arent honest though either.
When burke drafted the sedins he told Atlanta he wanted Stephan badly, it was a ploy so he wouldnt take a sedin with the #1oa. Sure enough atlanta picked Stephan 1oa leaving both sedins for 2 &3oa. - SMBDragon
What i cant figure out that on a poopty team how he can produce like a top 2LC but only have a 3LC ceiling. Playing with better players he would improve also. Wouldnt he? Hes sure doing that for Baert. - manvanfan
I agree. Every winger on the team is desperate to play with Bo. Hell, even vrbata was mad when he got stuck with the Sedins and couldn't play with Bo he makes his linemates better
Location: 2028 Stanley Cup Champions Joined: 11.10.2006
May 13 @ 4:04 AM ET
I know you have used that before as that you either have it or you don't. But I don't think that skillset is set like height. You grow and that's it. It's more like weight. As an example, some can add it properly and change their metabolism.
As we saw with skating. Bo took a disadvantage issue, and not only improved it, but made it a weapon for him. So I wouldn't count out that a person with the hockey IQ and dedication of Bo can't add a skill set he doesn't have now. It's rare. Sure. But so is what we have seen what Bo is as a hockey player. He's just driven not to perfect something he does well but also add to his game something he didn't have before. - Nuck4U
Agree to disagree. There are certain skills that aren't inherent (skating/shot/positioning to maximize effectiveness can be improved with work/coaching). Hockey IQ (the ability to be mentally 2 steps ahead of the play/see things unfold before they do) is not something you suddenly (or otherwise) add to your skillset. I maintain, you have it or you don't.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to take an aromatic sh!t.
Glass is interesting... Especially the potential for further physical growth - reaching 6'?" with the skillset of a 5'11" dude. But I still have Mittelstadt & Pettersson ahead of him right now.
Glass is interesting... Especially the potential for further physical growth - reaching 6'?" with the skillset of a 5'11" dude. But I still have Mittelstadt & Pettersson ahead of him right now. - DrChristianTroy
Lots of interesting players in the top 10...like you, I keep changing my list
Location: Making the most of the worst situation... Canuck fan 4life , BC Joined: 12.23.2014
May 13 @ 4:27 AM ET
His ceiling on a championship roster is elite 3rd line centre, yes. IMO of course - DrChristianTroy
Is Bonino an elite 3c? Or just a 3c? Because he was 3c and won a cup
Andrew Shaw? Brad Richard? (The 2 centers behind Toews) are either of them 2C or 3C or elite 3C? Because Bo had more points then either of them I the year that they won the cup......which makes one of them a 2c and three other 3c.... I'd suggest neither of them are 2C or elite 3C....
That's just the past 2 cup winners..... should I continue? Or are you prepared to die on this hill you've made for yourself? Because we can go back 10 years and there isn't one Stanley cup championship team with a 3C that has near as many points as Bo had this year. There are not many champion 2c that habe as many points as Bo had this year.
So I'm just going to have to assume you're trolling us for the lol's.
Agree to disagree. There are certain skills that aren't inherent (skating/shot/positioning to maximize effectiveness can be improved with work/coaching). Hockey IQ (the ability to be mentally 2 steps ahead of the play/see things unfold before they do) is not something you suddenly (or otherwise) add to your skillset. I maintain, you have it or you don't.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to take an aromatic sh!t. - DrChristianTroy
Location: 2028 Stanley Cup Champions Joined: 11.10.2006
May 13 @ 4:41 AM ET
Is Bonino an elite 3c? Or just a 3c? Because he was 3c and won a cup
Andrew Shaw? Brad Richard? (The 2 centers behind Toews) are either of them 2C or 3C or elite 3C? Because Bo had more points then either of them I the year that they won the cup......which makes one of them a 2c and three other 3c.... I'd suggest neither of them are 2C or elite 3C....
That's just the past 2 cup winners..... should I continue? Or are you prepared to die on this hill you've made for yourself? Because we can go back 10 years and there isn't one Stanley cup championship team with a 3C that has near as many points as Bo had this year. There are not many champion 2c that habe as many points as Bo had this year.
So I'm just going to have to assume you're trolling us for the lol's. - Pres.cup
Are Crosby and Malkin typical 1 & 2C's?
Brad Richards? The same guy who scored 91pts twice? He might've been in the twilight of his career, but yes he absolutely has a top 6 skillset & the ability to make his linemates better. Andrew Shaw is a GREAT bottom 6 guy - he was a plus player who chipped in gritty minutes & 39/26/34pts on a team where he was only needed to provide supplementary offense.
If Bo were playing behind a top 6 like that, do you really think he would've had the opportunity to post a 50pt season & lead a team offensively? Team depth & role will always play a part in opportunity & production. Bo couldn't do what he did this season on a competitive team.
Location: Making the most of the worst situation... Canuck fan 4life , BC Joined: 12.23.2014
May 13 @ 4:58 AM ET
Are Crosby and Malkin typical 1 & 2C's?
Brad Richards? The same guy who scored 91pts twice? He might've been in the twilight of his career, but yes he absolutely has a top 6 skillset & the ability to make his linemates better. Andrew Shaw is a GREAT bottom 6 guy - he was a plus player who chipped in gritty minutes & 39/26/34pts on a team where he was only needed to provide supplementary offense.
If Bo were playing behind a top 6 like that, do you really think he would've had the opportunity to post a 50pt season & lead a team offensively? Team depth & role will always play a part in opportunity & production. Bo couldn't do what he did this season on a competitive team. - DrChristianTroy
So.... because Bonino played behind an elite 1c and an elite 2c he doesnt need to be an elite 3c to win a cup?
Brad Richards scored 12 goals with 27 assists that year..... hardly elite numbers, hardly average 3c numbers.
Andrew Shaw scored 15 goals and 25 assists that year... not 2c or elite 3c numbers, solid 3c numbers.
So if Shaw is an average 3c and Richards is a really really poor 2c, how did they win a cup? I'm confused......
Damn Toews only put up 66 points that year, hardly elite numbers.... not a great playmaker, doesn't really fit your mould. By your game is day that he's the true elite 3c shut down center who can chip in 20 to 25 goals.
In closing, if there is a Toews caliber 1c then the other centers don't need to be elite to Win a championship.
So.... because Bonino played behind an elite 1c and an elite 2c he doesnt need to be an elite 3c to win a cup?
Brad Richards scored 12 goals with 27 assists that year..... hardly elite numbers, hardly average 3c numbers.
Andrew Shaw scored 15 goals and 25 assists that year... not 2c or elite 3c numbers, solid 3c numbers.
So if Shaw is an average 3c and Richards is a really really poor 2c, how did they win a cup? I'm confused......
Damn Toews only put up 66 points that year, hardly elite numbers.... not a great playmaker, doesn't really fit your mould. By your game is day that he's the true elite 3c shut down center who can chip in 20 to 25 goals.
In closing, if there is a Toews caliber 1c then the other centers don't need to be elite to Win a championship. - Pres.cup
Toews to Florida..... if he wasn't making 10.5 shmill. ouch.
