Don't get too excited then .. it's pretty normal in juniors
- GERBE!!!75PTS

It's normal for a defenseman?

I didn't know that.

Agree on the opportunity being a factor, but he still has a whopping 25 points in 79 games, which is putrid.
- kingcong39

Not great at all. But remember, he was the 3rd FWD picked, not the first.

It would have been worse if we picked him, absolutely.

If Armia, Lemieux, Compher, Roslovic or White turn into super stars than maybe you're right. Issue is they haven't and while the latter two show some promise, I'm not convinced we don't have replacement prospects already in the system. Roslovic hurts, but Armia...Compher...we have a number of prospects at or near their level. Wouldn't really change anything other than we would be awful right now and have a bit more of a log jam down the road.
- RhinoFan

Not sure if you missed the entire season this year but We are pretty much awful right now

Dont really want to go down this road but...

You are forgetting the fact that if we never made those trades we would likely have one of: Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Pujaarvi, Ect. in addition to Zadorov and Myers

And its easy to write of Armia if you haven't been paying attention to him, but hes turning into a semi promising player for the Jets

Not sure if you missed the entire season this year but We are pretty much awful right now

Dont really want to go down this road but...

You are forgetting the fact that if we never made those trades we would likely have one of: Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Pujaarvi, Ect. in addition to Zadorov and Myers

And its easy to write of Armia if you haven't been paying attention to him, but hes turning into a semi promising player for the Jets
- MCGUIZZY

All of this^^

Not great at all. But remember, he was the 3rd FWD picked, not the first.

It would have been worse if we picked him, absolutely.
- sbroads24

Not great?

Sam's 47 points are not great compared to what many of us were hoping for this year.

Bennett's 25 points is putrid, especially for a 4th overall pick.

Forgot to mention that in my NHL top 5 pick draft research a while back, the history of the 2nd overall pick and the 4th overall pick were virtually identical in terms of time it took to become fully developed as a player.

The 1st pick was much shorter of a timeframe while the 3rd overall pick was a tiny bit shorter of a timeframe compared to the 2nd & 4th overall picks.

Not sure if you missed the entire season this year but We are pretty much awful right now

Dont really want to go down this road but...

You are forgetting the fact that if we never made those trades we would likely have one of: Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Pujaarvi, Ect. in addition to Zadorov and Myers

And its easy to write of Armia if you haven't been paying attention to him, but hes turning into a semi promising player for the Jets
- MCGUIZZY

The only way the Sabres would have been guaranteed Tkachuk or Pujaarvi would have been if they finished last overall last year with the new draft lottery rules, so the question is, with how the team would have looked from a roster construction viewpoint, would they have been last overall?

I say that because to me there is a huge difference in being assured Tkachuk or being assured Juolevi or Dubois.

And awful last year, with Matthews, Laine in the draft.

And a bevy of prospects to deal after we landed another stud.

I can't imagine we wouldn't have been 30th or very close if you subtract ROR and Kane from last years team, and replaced them with the guys who weren't even in the NHL yet.
- sbroads24

Edmonton and Toronto were really bad teams. I don't think you can guarantee we wouldn't have a Dubois/Puljujarvi over Nylander (there's a gap but I don't think it's enourmous). We would have the larger prospect pool, but again, unless we already traded away someone that is going to really ramp it up, what are we losing? White may turn into a top6 forward and Roslovic a top4 d...other than that they're all bottom 6 players, something we have a plethora of.

Just saying I'm not sure we would be in some amazing place moving forward unless we go the real slow route, which is to never trade for a "stud" and just let everyone develop. We'd still be bad now, actually would be much worse still.

All of this^^
- sbroads24

One tidbit from the O'Reilly trade that no one brings up is that:

Colorado was going to lose him regardless so the fact that they got such a haul from us is pretty impressive. So anytime i hear about Us winning that trade has to understand that we gave up a ton for a player that was going to walk from them AND we game him a massive contract (the largest contract ever given to a Buffalo Sabre)

Not down on Oreilly but we didn't exactly steal him from Colorado

Not great?

Sam's 47 points are not great compared to what many of us were hoping for this year.

Bennett's 25 points is putrid, especially for a 4th overall pick.
- kingcong39

Sam Bennett has 20 5 on 5 points, with line mates who are at best a 3rd and 4th liner in Brouwer and Versteeg

Reinhart has 27 5 on 5 points with Eichel as his most common line mate

Reinhart has also played almost 100 more 5 on 5 minutes as Bennett which is about an additional 6 or 7 games of ice time.

The biggest difference is Sam Reinhart get's a ton of first unit PP time. Bennett doesn't. Some of that I'm sure is warranted.

But there is not an astronomical difference between the two at all

One tidbit from the O'Reilly trade that no one brings up is that:

Colorado was going to lose him regardless so the fact that they got such a haul from us is pretty impressive. So anytime i hear about Us winning that trade has to understand that we gave up a ton for a player that was going to walk from them AND we game him a massive contract (the largest contract ever given to a Buffalo Sabre)

Not down on Oreilly but we didn't exactly steal him from Colorado
- MCGUIZZY

I wonder how many other teams were going to be in on O'Reilly as a FA and willing to give him the contract Buffalo did, if he made it to FA?

My guess: several.

Sam Bennett has 20 5 on 5 points, with line mates who are at best a 3rd and 4th liner in Brouwer and Versteeg

Reinhart has 27 5 on 5 points with Eichel as his most common line mate

Reinhart has also played almost 100 more 5 on 5 minutes as Bennett which is about an additional 6 or 7 games of ice time.

The biggest difference is Sam Reinhart get's a ton of first unit PP time. Bennett doesn't. Some of that I'm sure is warranted.

But there is not an astronomical difference between the two at all
- sbroads24

Broads, I understand the advanced stats perspective, but at a certain point, 25 points is a pathetic output, is it not?

If Reinahrt was handled the same way as Bennett this year and had 25 points, how would you feel about him?

One tidbit from the O'Reilly trade that no one brings up is that:

Colorado was going to lose him regardless so the fact that they got such a haul from us is pretty impressive. So anytime i hear about Us winning that trade has to understand that we gave up a ton for a player that was going to walk from them AND we game him a massive contract (the largest contract ever given to a Buffalo Sabre)

Not down on Oreilly but we didn't exactly steal him from Colorado
- MCGUIZZY

Exactly.

This would also be totally different if the Sabres were a playoff team and ROR was contributing to meaningful wins NOW, while guys like Compher, Greer, Zadorov develop for COL.

Broads, I understand the advanced stats perspective, but at a certain point, 25 points is a pathetic output, is it not?

If Reinahrt was handled the same way as Bennett this year and had 25 points, how would you feel about him?
- kingcong39

It's not really advanced. If Reinhart was getting 3rd line minutes with Gionta and Girgensons all year, with 2nd unit PP time, his numbers would be similar to Bennett's.

Calgary has had two top lines performing for most of the year that they've kept together.

Edit- They'd still be better than Bennett's, but I'd wager around 33-35 points. Reinhart is certainly a better PP player

I think Stash took the easy way out and just stopped coming here to read (reed) this garbage.
- jochfr

It's not really advanced. If Reinhart was getting 3rd line minutes with Gionta and Girgensons all year, with 2nd unit PP time, his numbers would be similar to Bennett's.

Calgary has had two top lines performing for most of the year that they've kept together.

Edit- They'd still be better than Bennett's, but I'd wager around 33-35 points. Reinhart is certainly a better PP player
- sbroads24

It's not really advanced. If Reinhart was getting 3rd line minutes with Gionta and Girgensons all year, with 2nd unit PP time, his numbers would be similar to Bennett's.

Calgary has had two top lines performing for most of the year that they've kept together.

Edit- They'd still be better than Bennett's, but I'd wager around 33-35 points. Reinhart is certainly a better PP player
- sbroads24

This link may not work, but I tried to compare the top 3 forwards from the draft we are talking about.

https://public.tableau.co...W4WS5S?:display_count=yes

This link may not work, but I tried to compare the top 3 forwards from the draft we are talking about.

https://public.tableau.co...W4WS5S?:display_count=yes
- kingcong39

Beat you to it

- Sabresfan-365

Beat me to it by 3 minutes!

Beat you to it
- Sabresfan-365

You don't have Leon in there as well though, right?

You don't have Leon in there as well though, right?
- kingcong39

No but thats cuz i already knew what that chart would look like.


Here's an interesting one.

https://public.tableau.co...RCC3RC?:display_count=yes

This link may not work, but I tried to compare the top 3 forwards from the draft we are talking about.

https://public.tableau.co...W4WS5S?:display_count=yes
- kingcong39

Leon on dominant.

This is tough though, again, two of these guys get McDavid and Eichel to play with.

Obviously in order as of today its Leon, Sam, Sam b in terms of how they've panned out

Leon on dominant.

This is tough though, again, two of these guys get McDavid and Eichel to play with.

Obviously in order as of today its Leon, Sam, Sam b in terms of how they've panned out
- sbroads24

Am a little suprised he couldnt beat out backlund for the 2nd C spot. not a knock on backlund but you'd think by now bennett would have the edge on him.

Beat you to it
- Sabresfan-365

These, while useful, don't account for quality of line mates though

When comparing these 3, that kind of matters

These, while useful, don't account for quality of line mates though

When comparing these 3, that kind of matters
- sbroads24

i agree, youd have to be looking at multiple tools (like wowy's etc.)

I wish they told Bogo the games were optional
- sbroads24

His decision making on the Plekanec goal was downright hilarious last night