Don't shoot me but I think amacs looked real good lately
- Just5

This team will never win a cup with 8.5 million a year Claude Giroux as our 1C. Numbers will be down again from him this year.
- Williamc5468

Right. He actually did a lot of little things last night that show you why he is elite level talent. He just doesn't have his stride

I honestly think they need to look at trading one of Giroux or Simmonds.

Giroux will probably get you depth but nothing sexy. You might be able to get out of his cap hit though. Think Rick Nash type of deal.

Simmonds could bring you the most bang for your buck. Could get a young top line player who might be close to hitting his stride, 1st rounder and maybe a depth guy.

But I think they need to look at the top 6.
- J35Bacher

Nash was two years younger when he was traded to NY. Also, whether you believe this is the first year of a steep decline or not, I imagine most of the league sees it as such. I doubt any team would take Giroux as just a straight salary dump, so you'd probably be pushed into a position of taking back some poop salary or paying a bunch of Giroux's contract.

To further complicate things, Giroux has veto power over any trade, so that likely rules out a number of teams right off the bat.

In the end, the Giroux trade simply closes the door on his tenure. It would basically just be a symbolic move because no team is going to give up high end prospects/picks and allow you to clear $8.5M in cap space. The trade makes you worse in the short term and does very little to help the long-term.

The thing about points is they always need context. 50 point today is basically low end 1st line.

Couturier does not get PP1 time (and there's maybe only a few consistent 50+ guys in the league without PP1 time), and the PP2 has been a mess for a long time. Finally he's in front of the net because the coach had an epiphany we've had for years and moved him there. And the PP2 looks better now, and the personnel is improved, everyone going to their proper spots. Even so, all you can hope for is 10-12 PP points a year on the second unit, and his career high is 7, I believe. So, in order to hit 50, we're talking about scoring almost 40 ES points. That's not 2nd line levels. That's elite first line levels, top 20-25 in the league, and #1 center scoring. So, that's what people ACTUALLY want from him. It sounds almost ridiculous when you actually break it down and don't just arbitrarily throw out numbers. But that's what he did last year, barring time missed, and that was probably as close to max capacity as he can run at 2 points per game 5v5. And it's a fact all the best players on the team score more with him than apart.

It's just like Provorov will never touch Norris Trophy level scoring (40+) without seeing PP1 time. He's a beast 5v5 scorer this year, but it's just not possible without PP1 time. But everyone loves Provorov and calls him a #1 because he matches against top lines, scores well 5v5, leads the PK, and can hopefully outscore his opponents in spite of that usage. Sounds familiar.
- Mononoke

Excuse me, Ghost is our #1 dman because he scores the most, and we just traded our #2 dman.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...,gte,1&sort=pointsPerGame

So Provorov is at best a 3D and there's no need to discuss it further or provide "context".

He just doesn't have his stride
- Just5

He's been skating very well lately, whether due to surgery recovery or a more forceful approach to using his legs

Don't shoot me but I think amacs looked real good lately
- Just5

Shot through the heart.

Don't shoot me but I think amacs looked real good lately
- Just5

He has been good most of the year. He will never play up to his cap hit, but if he were making 3 million, we would love him lol.

the entire team was all basically right there in the slot. he still got the shot off and scored. disgrace. great shot. has to be stopped.
- hammarby31

You guys shouldn't have stayed pat at TDL. Oh well. Another prospect to add.

You guys shouldn't have stayed pat at TDL. Oh well. Another prospect to add.
- Nuck4U

Leave us alone. We're enjoying The Push.

The thing about points is they always need context. 50 point today is basically low end 1st line.

Couturier does not get PP1 time (and there's maybe only a few consistent 50+ guys in the league without PP1 time), and the PP2 has been a mess for a long time. Finally he's in front of the net because the coach had an epiphany we've had for years and moved him there. And the PP2 looks better now, and the personnel is improved, everyone going to their proper spots. Even so, all you can hope for is 10-12 PP points a year on the second unit, and his career high is 7, I believe. So, in order to hit 50, we're talking about scoring almost 40 ES points. That's not 2nd line levels. That's elite first line levels, top 20-25 in the league for all players, and #1 center scoring. So, that's what people ACTUALLY want from him. It sounds almost ridiculous when you actually break it down and don't just arbitrarily throw out numbers. But that's what he did last year, barring time missed, and that was probably as close to max capacity as he can run at 2 points per game 5v5. And it's a fact all the best players on the team score more with him than apart.

It's just like Provorov will never touch Norris Trophy level scoring (40+) without seeing PP1 time. He's a beast 5v5 scorer this year, but it's just not possible without PP1 time. But everyone loves Provorov and calls him a #1 because he matches against top lines, scores well 5v5, leads the PK, and can hopefully outscore his opponents in spite of that usage. Sounds familiar.
- Mononoke

I gave up arguing with people about Couturier's value, but I need one more go. I can't help that people are too dumb to understand how flawed raw point totals are in evaluating a player. It's the same people who tell us that all we do is rely on corsi when all they do is rely on raw point totals like that number isn't flawed either.

The point of hockey is to outscore your opponent. It doesn't matter whether it's dangling around defensemen and sniping goals or doing subtle things to give your teammates more opportunities in the offensive zone. There are very few players who produce positive results at even strength on this team over the last few years. Couturier is one of them. If people weren't so obsessed with raw point totals, then maybe they'd see that.

I wish people would get over the idea of each guy having a role. The only (frank)ing role should be to outscore the opponent. Whether you do it with strong defensive play or strong offensive play doesn't matter. You can be good at defense and still a bad player just like you can be good at offense and still a bad player.

Shot through the heart.
- flyer_nutter

And you're to...never mind, too easy

I gave up arguing with people about Couturier's value, but I need one more go. I can't help that people are too dumb to understand how flawed raw point totals are in evaluating a player. It's the same people who tell us that all we do is rely on corsi when all they do is rely on raw point totals like that number isn't flawed either.

The point of hockey is to outscore your opponent. It doesn't matter whether it's dangling around defensemen and sniping goals or doing subtle things to give your teammates more opportunities in the offensive zone. There are very few players who produce positive results at even strength on this team over the last few years. Couturier is one of them. If people weren't so obsessed with raw point totals, then maybe they'd see that.

I wish people would get over the idea of each guy having a role. The only (frank)ing role should be to outscore the opponent. Whether you do it with strong defensive play or strong offensive play doesn't matter. You can be good at defense and still a bad player just like you can be good at offense and still a bad player.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't disagree at all. That said, more shot attempts for does not automatically equate to more goals for, leading to outscoring the opposition. If your teams takes 10 shot attempts and score zero goals with you on the ice and the opposition takes 8 shot attempts and scores 2 goals with you on the ice, you are not doing a good job of helping your team win (not that it's necessarily your fault). So yes, raw point totals are not a good way to judge a player, but in the end, goal production is all that matters at the end of the game.

And you're to...never mind, too easy
- Scoob

You know you wanted to say it!

I don't disagree at all. That said, more shot attempts for does not automatically equate to more goals for, leading to outscoring the opposition. If your teams takes 10 shot attempts and score zero goals with you on the ice and the opposition takes 8 shot attempts and scores 2 goals with you on the ice, you are not doing a good job of helping your team win (not that it's necessarily your fault). So yes, raw point totals are not a good way to judge a player, but in the end, goal
production is all that matters game to game.
- jmatchett383

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential
- PhillySportsGuy

Never knew that actually. I think its because he's slow why people get annoyed. Or that he gets chances but just cant seem to buy a goal sometimes.

Like Couturier overall.

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential
- PhillySportsGuy

And in goals for, which means the team scores more goals with him on the ice than with any other player.

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential
- PhillySportsGuy

Meh. Soft usage

Feel like I am being educated.

Keep it coming stat boys.

Never knew that actually. I think its because he's slow why people get annoyed. Or that he gets chances but just cant seem to buy a goal sometimes.

Like Couturier overall.
- flyer_nutter

Yes

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential
- PhillySportsGuy

And in goals for, which means the team scores more goals with him on the ice than with any other player.
- Feanor

#AllGoalsMatter

You know you wanted to say it!
- flyer_nutter

I was afraid it would get stuck in my head lol

I was afraid it would get stuck in my head lol
- Scoob

And you give love a _____.

And in goals for, which means the team scores more goals with him on the ice than with any other player.
- Feanor

Exactly. If he was a normal top PP guy, he'd get 50-60 points each year and everyone would be satisfied (except 2real) with his production.

I'm not going to pretend that Couturier is a good PP player because he's not, but he's one of the 3 best players for the other 55 minutes each night.

Exactly. If he was a normal top PP guy, he'd get 50-60 points each year and everyone would be satisfied (except 2real) with his production.

I'm not going to pretend that Couturier is a good PP player because he's not, but he's one of the 3 best players for the other 55 minutes each night.
- PhillySportsGuy

I will die on the hill that if they just leave him in front, don't put him on a half wall (on the WRONG wall yet) QB role he is ill-suited for, let others do that, and let him play the Simmonds role on the PP2, he will score more on the PP. That's his skill set. Ryan (frank)ing White did it last year and was OK. It's not a role that demands the best PP player.

As I said in my other post, even still, 50 points is like max capacity and requires him to be a #1 center at every other strength. People don't even understand the bars they set, but that never stops them from setting them!

Just me or do they look related. That kid will have crazy eyebrows.