Engelland is a UFA after this season, no?
- Ol_Boy_Wop

Vegas has that early window to talk to UFAs. If they decide to sign one they forfeit their expansion pick for our team.

Some people have said that Vegas would just wait until summer to sign Engellund (therefore allowing them to have their cake and eat it too). There are a couple reasons why I don't think they'd go this route.

a. It could cause a poop storm if they chose to take one of our players and sniped a roster dman from us. If the Flames decided to raise a stink about it, it could be more trouble than it's worth (especially if the Flames can dig up any evidence of tampering).

b. I think Engellund would have more value than about 50% of their expansion picks. He'd be a fan favourite after a fight or 2 and having that local guy on the team would be huge for them when they're trying to bring 30 brand new players into a city. I don't think Vegas would want to risk losing him in UFA (or having another team bid up the price).

c. The contracts we are going to be exposing are garbage and the players are arguably less useful than Engellund would be on the ice. I think Engellund has more value than a couple of RFAs who haven't been able to make the leap to the NHL after 2-3 seasons.

So the big fear is that the Flames lose a 2nd for nothing if Lazar is picked?

Losing a 2nd in this terrible draft (34% of 2nd rounders play more than 100 games) and protecting everyone else....seems like a win to me

Teams stand to lose far more

So the big fear is that the Flames lose a 2nd for nothing if Lazar is picked?

Losing a 2nd in this terrible draft (34% of 2nd rounders play more than 100 games) and protecting everyone else....seems like a win to me

Teams stand to lose far more
- flashfire

Never thought about that. If Lazar shows us something to make him worth protecting, great. If not (and we lose him) we basically just paid a 2nd rounder to protect Kulak, Tspoon, Shinkaruk and co.

So the big fear is that the Flames lose a 2nd for nothing if Lazar is picked?

Losing a 2nd in this terrible draft (34% of 2nd rounders play more than 100 games) and protecting everyone else....seems like a win to me

Teams stand to lose far more
- flashfire

Well (frank), I would have given you Pouliot for a 2nd if I knew that's how you felt.

You really missed the boat on that one.

So the big fear is that the Flames lose a 2nd for nothing if Lazar is picked?

Losing a 2nd in this terrible draft (34% of 2nd rounders play more than 100 games) and protecting everyone else....seems like a win to me

Teams stand to lose far more
- flashfire

Im just curious where this draft is considered 100% terrible? Exactly there isnt any prospect publication that is writing off the whole draft.

All that has been said is that it lacks Elite top end talent in the top picks...thats it. However even those top picks, though may not be generational level talent, are still good.

Examples...Owen Tippett has the 8th highest G/GP in OHL D-Year history, behind Kane, Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, Skinner, Fabbri & Seguin.



One of the better Dmen in the draft...#2017NHLDraft 6'5 Nicolas Hague has the 3rd highest P/GP in OHL D-Year History, amongst D 6'4 or taller, behind only Ekblad & D. Hamilton.

There is talent there if you guys want to dismiss it then fine. The draft picks 1-60 are not something you disregard

Im just curious where this draft is considered 100% terrible? Exactly there isnt any prospect publication that is writing off the whole draft.

All that has been said is that it lacks Elite top end talent in the top picks...thats it. However even those top picks, though may not be generational level talent, are still good.

Examples...Owen Tippett has the 8th highest G/GP in OHL D-Year history, behind Kane, Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, Skinner, Fabbri & Seguin.



One of the better Dmen in the draft...#2017NHLDraft 6'5 Nicolas Hague has the 3rd highest P/GP in OHL D-Year History, amongst D 6'4 or taller, behind only Ekblad & D. Hamilton.

There is talent there if you guys want to dismiss it then fine. The draft picks 1-60 are not something you disregard
- DDM-Coga

Yeah, I don't understand this logic. From what I've seen the elite talent might not be there at the top, but this draft is about two solid rounds deep with top 9 forwards and NHL level defensemen.

Yeah, I don't understand this logic. From what I've seen the elite talent might not be there at the top, but this draft is about two solid rounds deep with top 9 forwards and NHL level defensemen.
- BINGO!

Exactly, its not scrubs in the 1st 2 rounds..There is talent there, and some real gems. It's not a wasteland that everyone claims it to be....it seems like the only people who are calling it a bad draft are fans who have heard it from other fans.

They might not be sexy names, but there are a lot of good players available, not cast offs.

Jaret Anderson-Dolan is slated to be a mid 2nd round 2nd, he could be a steal. Josh Brook, Alexander Sasha Chmelevski, Isaac Ratcliffe. There are some real gems in that projected 2nd round.

Vegas has that early window to talk to UFAs. If they decide to sign one they forfeit their expansion pick for our team.

Some people have said that Vegas would just wait until summer to sign Engellund (therefore allowing them to have their cake and eat it too). There are a couple reasons why I don't think they'd go this route.

a. It could cause a poop storm if they chose to take one of our players and sniped a roster dman from us. If the Flames decided to raise a stink about it, it could be more trouble than it's worth (especially if the Flames can dig up any evidence of tampering).

b. I think Engellund would have more value than about 50% of their expansion picks. He'd be a fan favourite after a fight or 2 and having that local guy on the team would be huge for them when they're trying to bring 30 brand new players into a city. I don't think Vegas would want to risk losing him in UFA (or having another team bid up the price).

c. The contracts we are going to be exposing are garbage and the players are arguably less useful than Engellund would be on the ice. I think Engellund has more value than a couple of RFAs who haven't been able to make the leap to the NHL after 2-3 seasons.
- Saskabush

Gotcha. This whole thing makes me feel like I imagine Whip does every day.

Gotcha. This whole thing makes me feel like I imagine Whip does every day.


- Ol_Boy_Wop

There is an ointment for that.

As of today who are the best few guys available if you protect Lazar?

Exactly, its not scrubs in the 1st 2 rounds..There is talent there, and some real gems. It's not a wasteland that everyone claims it to be....it seems like the only people who are calling it a bad draft are fans who have heard it from other fans.

They might not be sexy names, but there are a lot of good players available, not cast offs.

Jaret Anderson-Dolan is slated to be a mid 2nd round 2nd, he could be a steal. Josh Brook, Alexander Sasha Chmelevski, Isaac Ratcliffe. There are some real gems in that projected 2nd round.
- DDM-Coga

Dude, we get it. A 2nd rounder has a shot at being something and you wouldn't have traded it for Lazar. Most of us are of the opinion that Lazar is worth the gamble given our organizational needs. Our farm system is well stocked and he fits in with our core group of players.

Luckily for you you'll probably have a pile of 2nd rounders once Sakic trades Duchene and Landeskog for spare parts. Then you can talk up all your stud 2nd rounders to us

But honestly, the trade is done so it doesn't matter if we like it or not. We just beat the Kings to go 7 points up on them for the wildcard and are playing our best hockey of the year. Maybe we can talk about that instead of how we potentially missed out on drafting a hypothetical stud who would be 2-3 years away from the NHL

Exactly, its not scrubs in the 1st 2 rounds..There is talent there, and some real gems. It's not a wasteland that everyone claims it to be....it seems like the only people who are calling it a bad draft are fans who have heard it from other fans.

They might not be sexy names, but there are a lot of good players available, not cast offs.

Jaret Anderson-Dolan is slated to be a mid 2nd round 2nd, he could be a steal. Josh Brook, Alexander Sasha Chmelevski, Isaac Ratcliffe. There are some real gems in that projected 2nd round.
- DDM-Coga

Not too sure but I think most of the people that are trying to convince everyone else that this draft is full of good talent are people that are fans of teams that are probably picking a lot in this draft.

You're like the kid that thought his Gobot was as cool as everyone else's Transformer plus you're trying to convince everyone else that Gobots are the coolest ...... "Look at my Staks it's the same as your Optimus Prime"

No DDM-Coga your draft is not as cool as all the other drafts.

Exactly, its not scrubs in the 1st 2 rounds..There is talent there, and some real gems. It's not a wasteland that everyone claims it to be....it seems like the only people who are calling it a bad draft are fans who have heard it from other fans.

They might not be sexy names, but there are a lot of good players available, not cast offs.

Jaret Anderson-Dolan is slated to be a mid 2nd round 2nd, he could be a steal. Josh Brook, Alexander Sasha Chmelevski, Isaac Ratcliffe. There are some real gems in that projected 2nd round.
- DDM-Coga

Hell, Aleksi Heponiemi is ranked as a 3rd rounder in some drafts. Kid is one of the smartest players I've ever seen. Tenacious at both ends of the ice, and top 20 in the WHL in scoring.

As of today who are the best few guys available if you protect Lazar?
- Lahey

It'd come down to Ferland and Brouwer for the last spot (thinking they'd protect Ferland and take their chances on losing Brouwer).

Kulak
Wotherspoon
Shinkaruk
Poirier
Bouma
Stajan
Chiasson
Hamilton (Freddie)

Dude, we get it. A 2nd rounder has a shot at being something and you wouldn't have traded it for Lazar. Most of us are of the opinion that Lazar is worth the gamble given our organizational needs. Our farm system is well stocked and he fits in with our core group of players.

Luckily for you you'll probably have a pile of 2nd rounders once Sakic trades Duchene and Landeskog for spare parts. Then you can talk up all your stud 2nd rounders to us

But honestly, the trade is done so it doesn't matter if we like it or not. We just beat the Kings to go 7 points up on them for the wildcard and are playing our best hockey of the year. Maybe we can talk about that instead of how we potentially missed out on drafting a hypothetical stud who would be 2-3 years away from the NHL
- Saskabush

Im just confused by the statement thats all I'm saying, guys are saying its terrible so (frank) it who cares the pick was meaningless anyways.

Trade is done, I am not talking about the value of the trade, I want to know why some flame fans are thinking the pick was garbage to begin with? Give me some solid evidence from hockey insiders, draft insiders, prospect experts who are writing it off too? Just saying if you are going to make a claim like that back it up

It'd come down to Ferland and Brouwer for the last spot (thinking they'd protect Ferland and take their chances on losing Brouwer).

Kulak
Wotherspoon
Shinkaruk
Poirier
Bouma
Stajan
Chiasson
Hamilton (Freddie)
- Saskabush

So at the end of the day you might lose Lazar, but keep Brouwer. Could very well be worth that 2nd then

Not too sure but I think most of the people that are trying to convince everyone else that this draft is full of good talent are people that are fans of teams that are probably picking a lot in this draft.

You're like the kid that thought his Gobot was as cool as everyone else's Transformer plus you're trying to convince everyone else that Gobots are the coolest ...... "Look at my Staks it's the same as your Optimus Prime"

No DDM-Coga your draft is not as cool as all the other drafts.
- buddy_doug

Not saying this draft is as cool as other drafts, I'm saying its a blanket false statement to say the draft isnt good past the 1st round so who cares about moving picks.

Its not a wasteland after the top 20.

So at the end of the day you might lose Lazar, but keep Brouwer. Could very well be worth that 2nd then
- Lahey

Yeah it's not as big of a deal as people are trying to make it. Some of us were thinking we might have to use a 2nd to protect Kulak if he would've been put on a pairing with Brodie.

I'm just going to give BT the benefit of the doubt. I think he's a fairly intelligent man.

I think our feelings on Brouwer will depend on what he does in the next few months. If he doesn't wake the (frank) up we might not be too hurt if Vegas took him

Yeah it's not as big of a deal as people are trying to make it. Some of us were thinking we might have to use a 2nd to protect Kulak if he would've been put on a pairing with Brodie.

I'm just going to give BT the benefit of the doubt. I think he's a fairly intelligent man.

I think our feelings on Brouwer will depend on what he does in the next few months. If he doesn't wake the (frank) up we might not be too hurt if Vegas took him
- Saskabush

Well i can't agree with paragraph two, but the rest makes sense.

So here is where I'm unsure about opinions on Lazar.

Many are saying that he is terrible and that the Flames overpaid (I don't agree with this). But at the same time they are saying that now the Flames have to protect him in the expansion draft.

If he is as terrible as all say he is, then why would Vegas take him from the Flames? Assume that they protect both Ferland and Brouwer. Then the options for Vegas to pick from the Flames (not counting UFA's) are Stajan, Bouma, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Chaisson, Vey, F. Hamilton, Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Bartkowski, and McCollum.

So if Lazar is so bad wouldn't there be better options for Vegas to take. I would think that guys like Kulak, Wotherspoon, Bartkowski, and Shinkaruk would all be picked ahead of Lazar (at this stage). I even wonder some about Stajan, as Vegas does need to make a certain Salary cap number, and they will need some form of veteran leadership.

If Lazar is exposed, and assuming he doesn't light it up for the last 20 games, I'm pretty comfortable in him still being part of this team next season.

If you give Lazar 2 full seasons in the minors, I think he comes out as a decent 3rd liner

If he doesn't get that time and plays about 7 minutes on the 4th line, he won't amount to anything

Not too sure but I think most of the people that are trying to convince everyone else that this draft is full of good talent are people that are fans of teams that are probably picking a lot in this draft.

You're like the kid that thought his Gobot was as cool as everyone else's Transformer plus you're trying to convince everyone else that Gobots are the coolest ...... "Look at my Staks it's the same as your Optimus Prime"

No DDM-Coga your draft is not as cool as all the other drafts.
- buddy_doug

It is a tad concerning that Detroit is loading up on mid-late draft picks this year..

So here is where I'm unsure about opinions on Lazar.

Many are saying that he is terrible and that the Flames overpaid (I don't agree with this). But at the same time they are saying that now the Flames have to protect him in the expansion draft.

If he is as terrible as all say he is, then why would Vegas take him from the Flames? Assume that they protect both Ferland and Brouwer. Then the options for Vegas to pick from the Flames (not counting UFA's) are Stajan, Bouma, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Chaisson, Vey, F. Hamilton, Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Bartkowski, and McCollum.

So if Lazar is so bad wouldn't there be better options for Vegas to take. I would think that guys like Kulak, Wotherspoon, Bartkowski, and Shinkaruk would all be picked ahead of Lazar (at this stage). I even wonder some about Stajan, as Vegas does need to make a certain Salary cap number, and they will need some form of veteran leadership.



If Lazar is exposed, and assuming he doesn't light it up for the last 20 games, I'm pretty comfortable in him still being part of this team next season.
- dal_johnson

Look Bubba...Lazar isnt a world beater. He was drafted way too high, played way too early, and the aflames paid a little too much...barely. He is a good talent tho. Ottawa (frank)ed up his development much the same way the Oilers (frank)ed up Yaks , but in both cases the player has to take some blame for not being good enough. If the Flames dont mind taking a chamce on losing him to waivers ( low risk) he still has time to develop into a serviceable player, just temper negative and positive expectations for a while and see if he is willing to do the work. He showed the heart of a champion in junior, I'm sure he wants to succeed as well.

It is a tad concerning that Detroit is loading up on mid-late draft picks this year..
- fry

Detroit is over rated as far as drafting goes. Theyre good, but not the wizrds people male them out to be.

Dude, we get it. A 2nd rounder has a shot at being something and you wouldn't have traded it for Lazar. Most of us are of the opinion that Lazar is worth the gamble given our organizational needs. Our farm system is well stocked and he fits in with our core group of players.

Luckily for you you'll probably have a pile of 2nd rounders once Sakic trades Duchene and Landeskog for spare parts. Then you can talk up all your stud 2nd rounders to us

But honestly, the trade is done so it doesn't matter if we like it or not. We just beat the Kings to go 7 points up on them for the wildcard and are playing our best hockey of the year. Maybe we can talk about that instead of how we potentially missed out on drafting a hypothetical stud who would be 2-3 years away from the NHL
- Saskabush

I don't like giving up a second rounder
He's had 3 NHL seasons...better players than Lazar have been traded for less
His chance of being better seems small to me but I hope I'm wrong

I personally like draft picks because you can always hope
Like Rasmus and Kylington, you never know what you can grab in the 2nd round....