I just don't understand how anyone can think Lowry has more value than Copp or Dano. They're both younger and better. They are visibly and statistically superior to Lowry in every measurable way.

I already don't care enough to argue. Of his 21 points in 35 games, which is 55-60 points in a full season, he had 5 goals and 15 points in the last 20 games he played there. That's why he was the main piece in the Saad trade. Chicago then tried to play him on the top line in a position he had never played before, then put him on the 4th line when he didn't instantly produce. So the Jets traded for him, making him the centrepiece of the Ladd trade too, and he proceeded to put up numbers at a much higher rate than anyone around him given his nones of ice time and has continued to do so this season.
- Rexypoo

is that not guessing and speculating? the first round pick we got was the main piece in the Ladd deal, Dano was the gravy

is that not guessing and speculating? the first round pick we got was the main piece in the Ladd deal, Dano was the gravy
- Ross77

I'm just gone leave this here. I still don't get why you hate Dano and Postma so much.

http://jetsnation.ca/2017...lvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I just don't understand how anyone can think Lowry has more value than Copp or Dano. They're both younger and better. They are visibly and statistically superior to Lowry in every measurable way.
- Rexypoo

man do you exaggerate, Lowry is a whole one year older. Lowry is the only one proven to stick in the NHL at the position they were drafted to play. How do you know what Lowry would do if he was shifted to the wing because he couldn't hack it at center like Copp and Dano? Lowry has put up more points in the NHL than both, is much larger and plays a more physical game than both. Every team in the NHL would take Lowry over Copp and Dano.

I'm just gone leave this here. I still don't get why you hate Dano and Postma so much.

http://jetsnation.ca/2017...lvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
- Rexypoo

I dont hate Dano, I use actually stats not guess work to make points, he is not worth more than Lowry and he is replaceable within our system. Postma is not an NHL defenceman, I have told you many times he will not play more than 25 games in the NHL when the Jets finally let him go and I stand by that. there are alot of players who cant make the NHL that also show well in advanced stats, why do you think that is? is the entire league stupid? or is it because advanced stats dont always translate to overall performance

I dont hate Dano, I use actually stats not guess work to make points, he is not worth more than Lowry and he is replaceable within our system. Postma is not an NHL defenceman, I have told you many times he will not play more than 25 games in the NHL when the Jets finally let him go and I stand by that. there are alot of players who cant make the NHL that also show well in advanced stats, why do you think that is? is the entire league stupid? or is it because advanced stats dont always translate to overall performance
- Ross77

Meanwhile, after 2 LA cup wins as the best corsi team in the league and a cup final between Sharks and Penguins teams that went all in on advanced stats darlings.

I dont hate Dano, I use actually stats not guess work to make points, he is not worth more than Lowry and he is replaceable within our system. Postma is not an NHL defenceman, I have told you many times he will not play more than 25 games in the NHL when the Jets finally let him go and I stand by that. there are alot of players who cant make the NHL that also show well in advanced stats, why do you think that is? is the entire league stupid? or is it because advanced stats dont always translate to overall performance
- Ross77

And to answer your question, yes. It is because a lot of the league is stupid. The old timers are so opposed to the advanced stats movement because A: they don't like change and B: it puts them out of the job. Look at Barberio in Colorado. Montreal, a notoriously poorly run team under Bergevin, lets him go through waivers. Colorado claims him, and he's the best player on the ice in his first game against the Jets.

Meanwhile, after 2 LA cup wins as the best corsi team in the league and a cup final between Sharks and Penguins teams that went all in on advanced stats darlings.
- Rexypoo

Florida also went all in on advanced stats, hows that working for them this year? and didn't the Kings barely squeak into the playoffs for one of their cups?

And to answer your question, yes. It is because a lot of the league is stupid. The old timers are so opposed to the advanced stats movement because A: they don't like change and B: it puts them out of the job. Look at Barberio in Colorado. Montreal, a notoriously poorly run team under Bergevin, lets him go through waivers. Colorado claims him, and he's the best player on the ice in his first game against the Jets.
- Rexypoo

is that the game where your pal Lowry was our best player? look we disagree and can go back and forth all night. go jets go

Florida also went all in on advanced stats, hows that working for them this year? and didn't the Kings barely squeak into the playoffs for one of their cups?
- Ross77

Actually, very well. They're dominating puck possession. They've been on a roll as of late since they started getting players back.

is that the game where your pal Lowry was our best player? look we disagree and can go back and forth all night. go jets go
- Ross77

Ross I am on your side on this and totally agree with you on Dano. You might also be debating with a 15 year old.

The only valid point he made was Barbiero . I would have loved to have had him in our third pairing. Colorado got first crack at him though.

is that the game where your pal Lowry was our best player? look we disagree and can go back and forth all night. go jets go
- Ross77

Tell you what: lets put the Lowry-Dano debate on the back burner and come back to it in like 3 years when it's obvious what's what. We both want the Jets to win, and have generally agreed on all things not related to player development and the importance of size. I will, however, fight for Postma's honour until my dying days.

perraylt is useless and Vegas would be doing us a favour !! Connor and raslovik still need a lot of work in our end and may very well spend another year on the moose
- Ross77

XPM Model

Ross. Go read this article. When Perreault is fully healthy ( he's just been unlucky this year with the broken fingers, etc) he is amazing. The Jets would be idiots to not protect him.

http://jetsnation.ca/2017...katers-rank-among-the-nhl


XPM

"XPM is an expected goal model that looks at a player's influence on both shot quantity and shot quality after adjusting for linemates, linematching, coaches, deployment, and schedule. A player's performance is compared relative to a replacement level player.

XPM accounts for about 52% of a forward's impact on their offensive component of WAR and 100% of their defensive component for even strength. The slight decrease is due to scoring being relatively more important for forwards than it is for defenders.

Perreault is actually the top XPM per minute player in the NHL. The next best players: Crosby, Bergeron, McDavid. Not a bad crowd. Now, those players also do additional things better, like score, but this is a serious feather in his hat for Perreault. "


I am sure Rexypoo will be back once again on Dano but my feeling is the sampling is just to small. Some of his numbers came early in the season before the wear and tear of the schedule really kicked in. If Dano can stay at the levels the chart shows for 60 games then I will be more of a fan.

Lowry is of more value to the Jets than Dano.

Tell you what: lets put the Lowry-Dano debate on the back burner and come back to it in like 3 years when it's obvious what's what. We both want the Jets to win, and have generally agreed on all things not related to player development and the importance of size. I will, however, fight for Postma's honour until my dying days.
- Rexypoo

agreed, we all want the jets to win, when it comes to certain players we will never all agree but it's sure fun to banter it around

Florida also went all in on advanced stats, hows that working for them this year? and didn't the Kings barely squeak into the playoffs for one of their cups?
- Ross77

In 2009 a dude by the name of Stan Bowman went all in with analytics. He was one of the first in the NHL to do so. I think he is running a successful organization. He even has won a few cups.
Please don't use Florida as an example of analytics not working. That organization is dysfunctional and has a lot of stars out of their line up this year.

In 2009 a dude by the name of Stan Bowman went all in with analytics. He was one of the first in the NHL to do so. I think he is running a successful organization. He even has won a few cups.
Please don't use Florida as an example of analytics not working. That organization is dysfunctional and has a lot of stars out of their line up this year.
- BookemDano

Do you fans of anylists not think that these winning teams do not also have great plus minus numbers, or goalies and players with great stats to? Does the credit for winning a cup now go to possession and ignore goals for and against? Any logics has a place as do other metrics can you all stop sending flowers to possession stats. If they were so actuate we would bring back Wellwoad and Stapleton to the jets.

Do you fans of anylists not think that these winning teams do not also have great plus minus numbers, or goalies and players with great stats to? Does the credit for winning a cup now go to possession and ignore goals for and against? Any logics has a place as do other metrics can you all stop sending flowers to possession stats. If they were so actuate we would bring back Wellwoad and Stapleton to the jets.
- Ross77

Actually please don't answer this, don't have time today to go back and forth with any of you on this!! Just know I can find an example of winning or losing teams with some great or poor anylists as easily as you can to support your views. It's not the holy grail

Do you fans of anylists not think that these winning teams do not also have great plus minus numbers, or goalies and players with great stats to? Does the credit for winning a cup now go to possession and ignore goals for and against? Any logics has a place as do other metrics can you all stop sending flowers to possession stats. If they were so actuate we would bring back Wellwoad and Stapleton to the jets.
- Ross77

analytics/advanced stats just go deeper into interpreting what makes a player special or not special, whether a guy is a good fit for your system or not, how certain players affect line combinations. I personally am not a fan of the corsi stat but when you combine it with O zone vs D zone starts and strength of competition and plus minus it means so much more. Case in point...Auston Matthews he has a high corsi...good for him. TO media and fans can't tell us enough that he is an amazing defensive player because of his corsi blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong he is good defensively but TO folks need to dial it back 20% because when you see that he is taking 60% of his face offs in the offensive zone you know that will positively push the corsi number up (more shots). His strength of competition show he is facing more 3rd and 4th line opposition and 2nd and 3rd pairing Defensemen then the average centerman in the NHL. He is a rookie... that is about right for a rookie. Rookies get sheltered minutes. TO just shouldn't be surprised if he struggles when asked to take on a bigger role next year.

analytics/advanced stats just go deeper into interpreting what makes a player special or not special, whether a guy is a good fit for your system or not, how certain players affect line combinations. I personally am not a fan of the corsi stat but when you combine it with O zone vs D zone starts and strength of competition and plus minus it means so much more. Case in point...Auston Matthews he has a high corsi...good for him. TO media and fans can't tell us enough that he is an amazing defensive player because of his corsi blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong he is good defensively but TO folks need to dial it back 20% because when you see that he is taking 60% of his face offs in the offensive zone you know that will positively push the corsi number up (more shots). His strength of competition show he is facing more 3rd and 4th line opposition and 2nd and 3rd pairing Defensemen then the average centerman in the NHL. He is a rookie... that is about right for a rookie. Rookies get sheltered minutes. TO just shouldn't be surprised if he struggles when asked to take on a bigger role next year.
- BookemDano

Agreed .Good list and yet there are so many other variables that can affect this as well. Even a line that dumps the puck in the O-zone may get an extra 6-7 seconds of O-zone time based on where the puck is while they do the shift change. Little, Lowry, and sometime Perreault take a lot of D-zone faceoffs which affects several advanced stats. Sometime you can be the good player on a line where the other two are making the mistakes. Is that the one players fault. Possibly a guy like Petan gets hurt on his stats because of this. Yes , the stats are useful to some degree but the only real thing that matters is watching how they play day in and day out.

Tell you what: lets put the Lowry-Dano debate on the back burner and come back to it in like 3 years when it's obvious what's what. We both want the Jets to win, and have generally agreed on all things not related to player development and the importance of size. I will, however, fight for Postma's honour until my dying days.
- Rexypoo

POSTMA SUCKS

POSTMA SUCKS
- sparky1957

Yes but do you think he sucks more then Chairot or Stewart?

They all kind of suck. Chairot would be my choice out of the 3. At leasthe can play the right side as well. Postma and Stewart can not. And Postma is a rightie

Yes but do you think he sucks more then Chairot or Stewart?
- BookemDano

The gap between Myers (the #5) and Postma (#6) is the same as the gap between Postma and Chairot/Stuart

They all kind of suck. Chairot would be my choice out of the 3. At leasthe can play the right side as well. Postma and Stewart can not. And Postma is a rightie
- sparky1957

My choice of the three is Postma. None of them are shut down guys but Postma moves the puck better then the other two. Chairot and Stewart are both boat anchors a just drag their partner down with them.