The point is 5v5 (aka what line you're actually on), and PP points are two entirely different categories. It's very possible to be a top 6 forward at 5v5 and not get much PP time to bring your points down. Or to be a mediocre 5v5 player but get a huge PP boost.

I just love that Ghost is a 3rd pair PP specialist, and called that even before his slump this year.......but that logic doesn't apply to a forward like Schenn. Is Sam Gagner a top line forward pacing for 56 points? Because he plays on the 4th line.
- Mononoke

thats because your third line is for defense

This lineup is missing Waffles!
- dragonoffrost

Sorry.

I knew something didn't look right.

Sorry.

I knew something didn't look right.
- J35Bacher

LOL I got to like you knew who I meant.

Well, Kopitar was only the 11th pick.
- Feanor

2007: Macdonald/Selane or Getzlaf/Perry
2008: Datsyuk/Zetterberg
2009 : Crosby/Malkin
2010: Toews/Kane
2011: Bergeron/Krejic
2012: Kopitar/Brown
2013: Toews/Kane
2014: Kopitar/Carter
2015: Toews/Kane
2016: Crosby/Malkin

In the last 10 years only half the Stanley cup champions and 1/3 of organizations to win the cup had a 1-2 punch provided as a result of tanking. But it's apparently absolutely necessary.

According to last year's numbers, 55-60 points puts you in the 41-67 range of scoring. That's low end top line or high end 2nd line.

In regards to Schenn, it's misleading because he accumulates a disproportionate amount of points on the PP compared to most guys. He's also a mess defensively, so it's hard to play him big minutes at even strength. He and Simmonds are both more specialists than all around great players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Preach, baby.

I think Simmonds though has shown that with a non-anchor attached to him at center, that he can actually match with another strong possession player. Schenn has been a known drag on pretty much anyone's numbers 5v5. Simmonds actually has better results. Plus Simmonds's speed and shot 5v5 are quality assets.

LOL
- dragonoffrost

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
TBD or Cousins - Couturier - Simmonds
Raffl - Laughton - Read
Vandevelde - Bellemare - Lyubimov

Second line away from Coots who can be 3C and eat lots of minutes.

Raffl-G-Jake
Schenn-Cousins-Simmonds
Read-Coots-Weise
YOU KNOW WHO!
- dragonoffrost

If Couts is going to eat lots of minutes, shouldn't he play with better wingers?

Do you think it's time to get Schenn back to the wing?

I know they want to spread out the depth but I think it's time to get back to Schenn on the wing and maybe Cousins back in the middle.

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
TBD - Couturier - Simmonds
Read - Cousins - Weise
Vandevelde - Bellemare - Lyubimov


It's not perfect but I am not sure Schenn in the middle is what's needed. With Laughton playing with confidence in the AHL maybe it's time to see if he can handle 3rd line center duties.
- J35Bacher

I've always like Schenn better at wing, and I think his skill set is better suited for the wing. The problem is who plays center, because I also like Cousins better on the wing.

I've always like Schenn better at wing, and I think his skill set is better suited for the wing. The problem is who plays center, because I also like Cousins better on the wing.
- MJL

Is it time for Laughton to get 3rd line center. Reports are he is playing with confidence. I think at some point he needs to be up here since he is RFA and the expansion draft.

The point is 5v5 (aka what line you're actually on), and PP points are two entirely different categories. It's very possible to be a top 6 forward at 5v5 and not get much PP time to bring your points down. Or to be a mediocre 5v5 player but get a huge PP boost.

I just love that Ghost is a 3rd pair PP specialist, and called that even before his slump this year.......but that logic doesn't apply to a forward like Schenn. Is Sam Gagner a top line forward pacing for 56 points? Because he plays on the 4th line.
- Mononoke

It's a moot point because most informed people know and realize that at his best, Gostisbehere is not just a PP specialist.

2007: Macdonald/Selane or Getzlaf/Perry
2008: Datsyuk/Zetterberg
2009 : Crosby/Malkin
2010: Toews/Kane
2011: Bergeron/Krejic
2012: Kopitar/Brown
2013: Toews/Kane
2014: Kopitar/Carter
2015: Toews/Kane
2016: Crosby/Malkin

In the last 10 years only half the Stanley cup champions and 1/3 of organizations to win the cup had a 1-2 punch provided as a result of tanking. But it's apparently absolutely necessary.
- Baxter27

I believe all of those teams won with goalies they drafted as well. Was Thomas drafted by the Bruins? The Pens and Hawks doing it with multiple goalies they drafted.

Drafting good players regardless of where you draft is the key.

I've always like Schenn better at wing, and I think his skill set is better suited for the wing. The problem is who plays center, because I also like Cousins better on the wing.
- MJL

You can give Laughton or Weal a look at third line Center but it probably means Read remains out of the line up. I'd want 2 out of Raffl, Read and Weise on their wings to support them.

If Couts is going to eat lots of minutes, shouldn't he play with better wingers?
- PhillySportsGuy

The only issue is Weise. Read has been OK for the role Coots and him will be facing.

2007: Macdonald/Selane or Getzlaf/Perry
2008: Datsyuk/Zetterberg
2009 : Crosby/Malkin
2010: Toews/Kane
2011: Bergeron/Krejic
2012: Kopitar/Brown
2013: Toews/Kane
2014: Kopitar/Carter
2015: Toews/Kane
2016: Crosby/Malkin

In the last 10 years only half the Stanley cup champions and 1/3 of organizations to win the cup had a 1-2 punch provided as a result of tanking. But it's apparently absolutely necessary.
- Baxter27

Kopitar is more of an in between. The Kings also used one of their awful years to get Doughty. They also acquired Carter using Jack Johnson (former 3rd overall pick) as the centerpiece of the deal.

The tanking isn't entirely about what you get with those picks though. It's the opportunity to take several bites at the apple through other means as well.

I believe all of those teams won with goalies they drafted as well. Was Thomas drafted by the Bruins? The Pens and Hawks doing it with multiple goalies they drafted.

Drafting good players regardless of where you draft is the key.
- mickel25

So we got Stolie/Sandstrom/Hart in the pipeline.

The odds of Cousins being made the 2C are slim to none.

According to last year's numbers, 55-60 points puts you in the 41-67 range of scoring. That's low end top line or high end 2nd line.

In regards to Schenn, it's misleading because he accumulates a disproportionate amount of points on the PP compared to most guys. He's also a mess defensively, so it's hard to play him big minutes at even strength. He and Simmonds are both more specialists than all around great players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Last season Schenn scored 37 ES points, and 22 PP points.

Simmonds scored 39 at ES, and 21 PP points.

Neither is a specialist, and both are good scoring line forwards.

This season, pretty much the entire team is poor in ES scoring.

Preach, baby.

I think Simmonds though has shown that with a non-anchor attached to him at center, that he can actually match with another strong possession player. Schenn has been a known drag on pretty much anyone's numbers 5v5. Simmonds actually has better results. Plus Simmonds's speed and shot 5v5 are quality assets.
- Mononoke

Yeah, Simmonds is definitely better. I just think his reputation probably overrates him as an even strength guy. He is a wizard in front of the net on the PP though.

Is it time for Laughton to get 3rd line center. Reports are he is playing with confidence. I think at some point he needs to be up here since he is RFA and the expansion draft.
- J35Bacher

No idea. I have not watched him play with the Phantoms.

I believe all of those teams won with goalies they drafted as well. Was Thomas drafted by the Bruins? The Pens and Hawks doing it with multiple goalies they drafted.

Drafting good players regardless of where you draft is the key.
- mickel25

And also drafted top pairing dman. (Keith, Letang).

The odds of Cousins being made the 2C are slim to none.
- Feanor

2C playing 10-15 a game?

G - 17-20
Coots 18-20
Cousins 10-15
YKW 10-15

The only issue is Weise. Read has been OK for the role Coots and him will be facing.
- dragonoffrost

I'd go Raffl-Coots-Simmonds. All sound defensive players. Assuming Schenn is with G and Jake my ideal lines would look like this.

Schenn-G-Jake
Raffl-Coots-Simmonds
Weiss/Read-Laughton-Cousins
Read/Weiss-78-13

And also drafted top pairing dman. (Keith, Letang).
- arichardson22

Flyers have seemingly done that with Provorov.

Yeah, Simmonds is definitely better. I just think his reputation probably overrates him as an even strength guy. He is a wizard in front of the net on the PP though.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think most people would actually oversell the PP and undersell how good he can be at other strengths with the right linemates. But yes, he's at BEST probably a 2nd line 5v5 player. He's back with Coots now and they always do well together. Line was a bright spot last night.

Flyers have seemingly done that with Provorov.
- mickel25

Yup, and possibly with Hart for goalie. Now all we need is that 1C potential prospect.