If there is one thing that stands out to me about the whole Torts era in Vancouver it is this statement. And unfortunately, it is 100% true. Stale is an understatement. It doesn't mean this group still can't win hockey games, or score goals, or play defensively, it just means that this organization is in need of a major shake up, and its needed one since 2012/2013.

If we look at the rest of the pacific, or the rest of the west even, look at how they implement youth into their line up and are successful. Look at how they are still able to recognize a core, recognize diminishing assets (and trading those assets as peak value) for big rewards while continuing to draft well and stay competitive. This is the model Vancouver has lacked for X amount of years. Today, this is the bi-product of failing to meet those thresholds, failing to acquire those picks, failing to draft those kids, failing to trade players when they should have been traded.
- Codes1087

I agree with this and the earlier point made about who you choose to keep around. Sedins deserve their lifetime Canuck cards, they are HoFers. Burrows, Hansen, etc are not. They could have been moved for picks/prospects well before their twilight. Bertuzzi was the most recent example I can think of where they actually traded someone before they declined, and it got us 8 years of continued success and stability in net

Naw...that's just how you take it. When you don't draft in the second round, and you're a poopty team, for a couple years in a row, that's what annoys me. I guess you'd have to be able to read between the lines though, because unlike your former self, I'm not into posting novels on here.

Another thing that annoys me, is trying to make the playoffs when you should be trying to pick in a good draft position. Things that I'm pointing to when I discuss drafting.
- LeftCoaster

Okay so JB isn't doing that anymore as he said he's done with adding the missing youth layer. Will keep picks for drafting.

How do try to pick in a good draft position? Trade away the young guys and productive players for picks and sign more AHL guys like Megna? Is it really worth it now given how the draft has no signature players?

This is what I don't get.... it has gone through a major shake up.

Sure the sedins, Edler and Burrows are still here but otherwise this team has been changed dramatically and still needs a major shake up?

People need to stop calling it a "Country Club" atmosphere. It's a Sedin atmosphere. They play a style of hockey and have an attitude of turn the other cheek, be positive and worry about yourself.

For some that means that think they don't try hard enough or want to win as much as guys like Kesler or Miller who will pout when they lose. I bet the same people who female dog about the Sedin's saying we tried hard and lost are the same people who female dog about Naslund's "We choked" comments.


Edit. This isn't necessarily directed at just you.
- belcherbd

I definitely dont question the Sedin's leadership, effort or desire to win. I only go along with the "country club" name because I believe that its embedded in others beyond those two. I see Edler, Tanev, Hansen, Burrows, even Erikkson all in the same light. I dont care that they say they tried on most nights, but I would like to see them be upset after going half a game without a shot, or going 9 games without a win.

I also agree that there has been major shake up already and that its only a matter of time before a new culture emerges. I think Gudbranson and Bo are those types of leaders who can stir a little more emotion out of the team. Bo looks ecstatic when he scores, that can be infectious

I know this has grown old with a lot of posters, but apart from picks, what did Jim Benning have to work with in order to make trades? No one wanted our shriveled scraps, so all JB had to work with was picks. Sven, IMO, was worth the 2nd. Linden Vey was a gamble, but at the time seemed worth it, and I don't really care for the 2nd that was added in for EG but whatever. I know JB gets a ton of heat for 2nd round picks, but damn what else does he have to work with if he doesn't ship out our prize prospects? I think he should take a little less (not zero) heat for dealing those.
- Codes1087

His two biggest trade pieces were Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa and Hamhuis. Matthias and Richardson all had some value as well.

He moved some of those guys obviously but those were the pieces he had available to him to move when he came in and over the next couple of seasons.

Okay so JB isn't doing that anymore as he said he's done with adding the missing youth layer. Will keep picks for drafting.

How do try to pick in a good draft position? Trade away the young guys and productive players for picks and sign more AHL guys like Megna? Is it really worth it now given how the draft has no signature players?
- Nuck4U

Is there a time limit on how long I can female dog about things? Because I didn't see that when I signed up

I'm hopeful they acquire more picks this year and don't trade anymore of their own.

3 x 5 million for Horvat?
- Codes1087

I hope we sign him for 6 years. When is his last year of RFA status?

This is what I don't get.... it has gone through a major shake up.

Sure the sedins, Edler and Burrows are still here but otherwise this team has been changed dramatically and still needs a major shake up?

People need to stop calling it a "Country Club" atmosphere. It's a Sedin atmosphere. They play a style of hockey and have an attitude of turn the other cheek, be positive and worry about yourself.

For some that means that think they don't try hard enough or want to win as much as guys like Kesler or Miller who will pout when they lose. I bet the same people who female dog about the Sedin's saying we tried hard and lost are the same people who female dog about Naslund's "We choked" comments.


Edit. This isn't necessarily directed at just you.
- belcherbd

I get what you are saying, but maybe we have a different interpretation how major or minor the shake up has been. I know they have been limited with NTC's/NMC's but how else can you explain the position the Canucks are currently in?

Is there a time limit on how long I can female dog about things? Because I didn't see that when I signed up

I'm hopeful they acquire more picks this year and don't trade anymore of their own.
- LeftCoaster

Just become a Lemming already. It is the most esteemed clique on Carol's blog

Just become a Lemming already. It is the most esteemed clique on Carol's blog
- CanuckDon

I walk to the beat of my own drum....son

1) Yes that is definitely part of it. How many awful Canuck games have we seen over the past couple years and where is the emotion over losing? I dont like the idea of pushing out the Sedin's but their postgame comments as the leaders of the team are reflective of the club. "We played pretty good", "we had a good 3rd we can build off of", "just a couple bad bounces lost us the game", instead of being honest and say, 'they dominated us. We need to be a lot better. We cant even be thinking of playoffs until we start playing better'

2) Moved players but same core leadership group. Torts said

It doesnt have anything to do with style of play, the players on the Canucks lack enthusiasm, energy and visible passion. I loved seeing the players jump into the glass, or fist pump in 2011, its rarely been seen since
- WhiteLie

Really... like they don't have passion? So showing off is needed? I don't get that from this group like they have no enthusiasm. Look at Carol's blog for example and Burr's comments. You sound as if they are sleepwalking or going through the motions.

I get what you are saying, but maybe we have a different interpretation how major or minor the shake up has been. I know they have been limited with NTC's/NMC's but how else can you explain the position the Canucks are currently in?
- Codes1087

What position ? being a not very good team ?

They tried to win the stanley cup and failed. That included mortgaging the future, to a certain extent mgmt/ownership hasn't or at least as recently as this summer hadn't accepted that the window had completely closed and were/are still trying to be a competitor for the cup.

The shake up started with Gillis and a change of philosophy in needing to be tougher, then it changed again that the team needed to have more young players contributing.

I imagine we will see another shake up at some point in the future when it is decided that the team needs more talent.

I walk to the beat of my own drum....son
- LeftCoaster

i was thinking we could implement a new law, where you must state your status in the lil info window under your name.
Would make things easier

What position ? being a not very good team ?

They tried to win the stanley cup and failed. That included mortgaging the future, to a certain extent mgmt/ownership hasn't or at least as recently as this summer hadn't accepted that the window had completely closed and were/are still trying to be a competitor for the cup.

The shake up started with Gillis and a change of philosophy in needing to be tougher, then it changed again that the team needed to have more young players contributing.

I imagine we will see another shake up at some point in the future when it is decided that the team needs more talent.
- belcherbd

i endorse this philosophy, although would like to be at a point where it's redundant.

Hey, should we acquire this player? Nah, we've got enough talent.

I definitely dont question the Sedin's leadership, effort or desire to win. I only go along with the "country club" name because I believe that its embedded in others beyond those two. I see Edler, Tanev, Hansen, Burrows, even Erikkson all in the same light. I dont care that they say they tried on most nights, but I would like to see them be upset after going half a game without a shot, or going 9 games without a win.

I also agree that there has been major shake up already and that its only a matter of time before a new culture emerges. I think Gudbranson and Bo are those types of leaders who can stir a little more emotion out of the team. Bo looks ecstatic when he scores, that can be infectious
- WhiteLie

Bieksa said two years ago "We don't need no coach coming in here and telling this veteran group how to play"

Country Club 101

Is there a time limit on how long I can female dog about things? Because I didn't see that when I signed up

I'm hopeful they acquire more picks this year and don't trade anymore of their own.
- LeftCoaster

I believe that Season Ticket Holders are immune to both 'limits' and 'restrictions'.

I definitely dont question the Sedin's leadership, effort or desire to win. I only go along with the "country club" name because I believe that its embedded in others beyond those two. I see Edler, Tanev, Hansen, Burrows, even Erikkson all in the same light. I dont care that they say they tried on most nights, but I would like to see them be upset after going half a game without a shot, or going 9 games without a win.

I also agree that there has been major shake up already and that its only a matter of time before a new culture emerges. I think Gudbranson and Bo are those types of leaders who can stir a little more emotion out of the team. Bo looks ecstatic when he scores, that can be infectious
- WhiteLie

So being mature and calm is a bad thing? I guess you missed Hansen's passion jumping in to challenge guys or hitting teams best player. He's been a force out there.

Okay so JB isn't doing that anymore as he said he's done with adding the missing youth layer. Will keep picks for drafting.

How do try to pick in a good draft position? Trade away the young guys and productive players for picks and sign more AHL guys like Megna? Is it really worth it now given how the draft has no signature players?
- Nuck4U

I realize this is a weaker draft, but there are a lot of quality players in every draft. 2010 was a 'strong' draft right? Tarasenko slid to 16, before the draft who thought of him as 'signature'? The only player in that draft, it turns out, better than him was Tyler Seguin. Hall and tarasenko are debatable but for my money it's Tarasenko. Same with Kuznetzov. Same draft. I'm not talking about late round steals, I'm talking about the fact that guys that get picked in the first round (especially the top 5) have a chance to be that good. When was the last weak draft? is this the first ever? Seems to me that some drafts are considered weak, end up with amazing unheralded players all the time. I don't get this logic of "this draft isn't worth it", it literally has zero validity.

I realize this is a weaker draft, but there are a lot of quality players in every draft. 2010 was a 'strong' draft right? Tarasenko slid to 16, before the draft who thought of him as 'signature'? The only player in that draft, it turns out, was Tyler Seguin. Hall and tarasenko are debatable but for my money it's Tarasenko. Same with Kuznetzov. Same draft. I'm not talking about late round steals, I'm talking about the fact that guys that get picked in the first round (especially the top 5) have a chance to be that good. When was the last weak draft? is this the first ever? Seems to me that some drafts are considered weak, end up with amazing unheralded players all the time. I don't get this logic of "this draft isn't worth it", it literally has zero validity.
- neem55

Plenty of quality will emerge from this draft.
I think the argument around it being 'weak' is that there is no standout, generational type player that would make a fan base and management consider an actual tank in the hopes of acquiring.

I agree with this and the earlier point made about who you choose to keep around. Sedins deserve their lifetime Canuck cards, they are HoFers. Burrows, Hansen, etc are not. They could have been moved for picks/prospects well before their twilight. Bertuzzi was the most recent example I can think of where they actually traded someone before they declined, and it got us 8 years of continued success and stability in net
- WhiteLie

this bertuzzi statement is exactly what I am talking about. Sometimes it bites you in the ass yes, but sometimes it works out and this is a perfect example. Trade them for max value, before they start to diminish.

Really... like they don't have passion? So showing off is needed? I don't get that from this group like they have no enthusiasm. Look at Carol's blog for example and Burr's comments. You sound as if they are sleepwalking or going through the motions.
- Nuck4U

Sure, he says their mindset has been "We're gonna get to the playoffs. We're gonna try to do that every night."

How does not getting a shot on goal for half a game against the worst team in the league not stir something in them? Or when they went winless in 9 games? Is that what a playoff team does or are they ok with missing it?

Dallas is a team that expected to be a playoff team and a cup contender. They are tied with Vancouver and this is how their captain reacted during a bad game:



Some will call it a tantrum or whatever, but I dont remember the last time I saw the Canucks frustrated with how they have played and there have been some embarrassingly bad moments

What position ? being a not very good team ?

They tried to win the stanley cup and failed. That included mortgaging the future, to a certain extent mgmt/ownership hasn't or at least as recently as this summer hadn't accepted that the window had completely closed and were/are still trying to be a competitor for the cup.

The shake up started with Gillis and a change of philosophy in needing to be tougher, then it changed again that the team needed to have more young players contributing.

I imagine we will see another shake up at some point in the future when it is decided that the team needs more talent.
- belcherbd

I am not disagreeing that we have seen a shake up. Our average player age now as opposed to 3 or 4 years ago makes it clearly evident. BUT, we can change our player age average from 34 to 26, that doesn't automatically translate into success (proven now). We are very much deprived of talent (apart from Horvat, and some other young guns), all the way from our current roster, down to the AHL team, down to our prospects. Don't get me wrong, Boeser/Olli/Gaudette/Lockwood/Virtanen are all decent chips, but we need more. Anyone who is satisfied with this roster, or the players we have signed in our system, does not know hockey very well.

What position ? being a not very good team ?

They tried to win the stanley cup and failed. That included mortgaging the future, to a certain extent mgmt/ownership hasn't or at least as recently as this summer hadn't accepted that the window had completely closed and were/are still trying to be a competitor for the cup.

The shake up started with Gillis and a change of philosophy in needing to be tougher, then it changed again that the team needed to have more young players contributing.

I imagine we will see another shake up at some point in the future when it is decided that the team needs more talent.
- belcherbd

Here is a wild and crazy theory. Aquilini was hiring a new GM/ President and he instructed them he wanted another run at a cup with the Sedin's. Benning and Linden said they would "retool" on the fly to get the job. They probably knew the teams window was closed so they traded a few seconds to add young depth scoring while keeping the best young prospects and first round picks.

It didn't work(although they made the playoffs in year 1), and now they have convinced Aquilini that they need a rebuild. A "competitive" rebuild. A shot at the playoffs, add picks when the opportunity arises and no rentals under any circumstances.

What position ? being a not very good team ?

They tried to win the stanley cup and failed. That included mortgaging the future, to a certain extent mgmt/ownership hasn't or at least as recently as this summer hadn't accepted that the window had completely closed and were/are still trying to be a competitor for the cup.

The shake up started with Gillis and a change of philosophy in needing to be tougher, then it changed again that the team needed to have more young players contributing.

I imagine we will see another shake up at some point in the future when it is decided that the team needs more talent.
- belcherbd

JB already said that in latest interviews. The point of contention is that he's not all in on moving everyone out for picks. He's trying to balance development by remaining somewhat competitive. The belief here is that young guys develop better habits when playing in meaningful games. Plus the mentor roles.

So being mature and calm is a bad thing? I guess you missed Hansen's passion jumping in to challenge guys or hitting teams best player. He's been a force out there.
- Nuck4U

Mature and calm is a good thing most of time, but when things are bad there should be some emotion attached to it.

Hansen fighting after a bad hit isnt passion, nor is hitting players on the other team, that's literally just hockey.

Sure, he says their mindset has been "We're gonna get to the playoffs. We're gonna try to do that every night."

How does not getting a shot on goal for half a game against the worst team in the league not stir something in them? Or when they went winless in 9 games? Is that what a playoff team does or are they ok with missing it?

Dallas is a team that expected to be a playoff team and a cup contender. They are tied with Vancouver and this is how their captain reacted during a bad game:



Some will call it a tantrum or whatever, but I dont remember the last time I saw the Canucks frustrated with how they have played and there have been some embarrassingly bad moments
- WhiteLie

I got no problem with an even keel approach to a long season.
The Sedin's have shown plenty of joy/passion when the moment calls for it.
I like their approach.

That may or may not make me a lemming. I haven't been informed yet what my status is yet.