I agree. While Darling isn't a sure thing if he becomes a #1, he is showing a lot of promise. Very similar to CC, who many were ready to give up on in 2012. I think a lot of it comes down to the goalie coaches, who don't get enough credit. I think the Hawks have to make some tough choices and while goalie is a critical position, at least Darling is looking solid. Gotta save some $$ somewhere.
- breadbag

As I said on the Shoutcast last night. It's not that Darling is as good as Crawford. He isn't. Probably never will be that good. But he's at least good. I don't think you can argue that he can't be a #1 somewhere in the league.

The question is, as Gate put it, is he $3 million worse than CC, when $3 million is vitally important to this team?

There are no easy answers. And it's all about $$ versus tradeoff in actual ability.

Thank you for saying this........well done. Been trying to hammer this home.

The cap is geared and rigged towards the middle group. Your Nashville's etc and honeslty your top teams are being penalized for it. There is no luxury cap to enable teams to go over, which may be in the next CBA, and it's not win for the NHLPA or the large market teams. With a cap about to be stagnant, top teams will lose players, and players hitting UFA will not maximize earnings because their will be little competition on the open market with mid to lower teams hovering around the cap floor due to inhouse budgets.

Honestly.....what they should do is retract some teams but that will never happen as NHLPA loses jobs, Bettman has egg on his face etc.

As far as the TV deal, realistically where can they go? I highly doubt ESPN gives them espn main network with NBA, MLB, and NCAAB or NCAAF on most nights, so they get banished to ESPN2 and what ratings would they get on ESPN2 that they aren't getting on NBCSN? Same holds true for ABC on Sundays.

I think owners like Wirtz have to push for the luxury tax....keep it reasonable say 10% above cap is all you can go and pay X amount to the kitty, but otherwise this league is truly screwed.
- SteveRain

The NHL is the perfect example of the saying -Everyone who ends up on 3rd base hasn't hit a triple. Almost everything they do is either backwards or ends up working for awhile for mostly the wrong reasons.

The current model doesn't work and many teams have copied what the Hawks have done and have a lot of cap space allocated to about 30% of the roster. Something has to give.

It's a sham system now...Teams puke and go way below the floor...Which actually should be illegal-If you can't go way above you shouldn't be allowed to go $20-$30 million below. But Bettman has no choice but to look away until a couple of teams go bust otherwise he will allow the fires sales and then look to placate those fan bases somehow.

I have to chuckle when I hear people say how could the NHL do a significant equipment modification in mid season. Because they run the league in a small time way...Almost like they don't think anyone is keeping score.

So they shrink the goal tenders pants-Which will be another failed attempt to significantly increase scoring.Actually almost every change to increase scoring has failed except for taking away center line off sides.

People ask how could a league do that type of change in the middle of the year??

The answer is the same league who instituted the 2 ref system at the start of the 1999 playoffs!!!

While Griess may be the best comp for Darling out there, lets work with a $3.5-4MM number as the most likely.

Know that the NHL average AAV for all teams for backups is $1.3MM, largely getting what you pay for with very few exceptions. Niemi being an upside outlier at $4.5MM, and Murray the downside outlier at $620,000.

At best.......save $1.5MM with an undeniable downgrade in the potential new tandem. Hard to argue that CC + 33 would not be better than 33 + unknown entity. Be careful what you wish for.

While the NHL telegraphs static cap, that does not assume the NHLPA escalator. At 5%, that is $3.5MM.
- Return of the Roar

To be real, it will be either CC + New backup or Darling + New Backup.

There is likely no scenario where the Hawks have CC and Darling next year. I don't think anyone thinks the Hawks will get better than CC + 33, but here is just no way to have both of them next year. Is CC worth the extra 2 or 3 million when compared to Darling? That is the question.

All that makes sense, but Panarin's new deal kicks in next year + performance bonuses for him (and I believe others) from this year that will hit next year's cap.

You can't cherry pick cap numbers. The totality of the cap picture is the Hawks can't afford $10 million committed to the G position. And Darling is going to get paid by someone.
- John Jaeckel

If I were 33 and my agent did not counsel me to go UFA I'd have to sue him for malpractice. No way 33 gets the most he can get from Chicago, unless the market speaks otherwise. The only way to know your market value is to go UFA.

I was told it was Niemi or Hammer and once they matched the offer sheet they waited out Niemi in arb and walked from the deal.

Crawford showed in glimpses in 2008 he could do the job and obviously got screwed by Niemi's deal to not make the team.

Point is, hasn't Darling done AT LEAST all that and more to prove he's ideally in a better spot to take on #1 job then where Crawford was in 2010?

When they were flirting with a chance to make playoffs at end of 2008, believe CC had a shutout vs Anaheim and another strong showing in March that year when he was spelling Lalime.
- SteveRain

I have to stick with what I heard as I never had more accurate whispers than that summer. I wrote about the untouchable 7 that were going to say...Niemi wasn't on that list, either was Campbell but Sharp and Bolland were-Those were 2 guys many thought would be traded.. Either was Hammer but my chatter indicated the Hawks never made a significant offer to Niemi...Like not for more than 1.3 to 1.5 mill.... Which was what the Hawks planned on signing Hammer for, which would have been a good raise considering he was making about $600k.

When SJ signed Niemi it was less than 20% below the arbitration award and so the Hawks only had to match to keep him. But they didn't care as Turco's contract was already signed in Bowman's desk drawer. Niemi was never really in the plans....

If I were 33 and my agent did not counsel me to go UFA I'd have to sue him for malpractice. No way 33 gets the most he can get from Chicago, unless the market speaks otherwise. The only way to know your market value is to go UFA.
- Return of the Roar

That would be true for most UFA in the league. They don't normally get the most money to stay where they are. Sometimes guys are willing to take less to stay where they are rather than move to a new city/team.

As I said on the Shoutcast last night. It's not that Darling is as good as Crawford. He isn't. Probably never will be that good. But he's at least good. I don't think you can argue that he can't be a #1 somewhere in the league.

The question is, as Gate put it, is he $3 million worse than CC, when $3 million is vitally important to this team?

There are no easy answers. And it's all about $$ versus tradeoff in actual ability.
- John Jaeckel

....And not having any other feasible choice.

To be real, it will be either CC + New backup or Darling + New Backup.

There is likely no scenario where the Hawks have CC and Darling next year. I don't think anyone thinks the Hawks will get better than CC + 33, but here is just no way to have both of them next year. Is CC worth the extra 2 or 3 million when compared to Darling? That is the question.
- breadbag

I agree with the premise, but the math is broader than that. A tandem at $6.6MM right now must be compared to a new tandem of 33 + new guy at a net savings of $1-1.5MM, and a CC + new guy with a slight increase in cost after signing the backup.

With a team surrendering north of 30 shots on goal a night every night, if you accept the premise that CC + new guy > 33 + new guy, is $1-1.5MM in potential cap savings worth a worse goaltending tandem? And does the extra $1-1.5MM in cap really fix anything to solve the root causes of the high SOG totals?

Tough questions coming up for SB.

That would be true for most UFA in the league. They don't normally get the most money to stay where they are. Sometimes guys are willing to take less to stay where they are rather than move to a new city/team.
- breadbag

At this point in 33's career trajectory, his next deal is likely his best shot at the most money. If he does not sign before UFA opens up, I think he is gone. It is only natural for the FO to reach out now and see if homer discount is in order. Does not mean anything more than that right now.

I see your point but I don't think they will raise the floor....What they should do is eliminate the floor and let the market take over, but they won't do that either. The present system doesn't work unless there is a vast wasteland out there for teams to puke players. The poster boy lately in Arizona.

To your point, something has to give soon because the cap could stay flat or go down for quite awhile. Besides the reason everyone points to ie. currency valuation...The NHL didn't make as much as they should have on the last TV deal and merchandising sales haven't caught fire either.
- Al

My guess is that the new Vegas team won't help short term either - spreading the TV money around to now 31 teams instead of only 30.

Great discussion, but can we all agree on no Iginla and no trading Hjalmarsson for a forward?

If I were 33 and my agent did not counsel me to go UFA I'd have to sue him for malpractice. No way 33 gets the most he can get from Chicago, unless the market speaks otherwise. The only way to know your market value is to go UFA.
- Return of the Roar

Well he has a 65 game NHL career going right now and the market may be limited to Calgary, maybe Dallas, Colorado, St.Louis, Buffalo probably one or 2 more. Some of those teams have to shed the junk they have now too. What would they be willing to pay for Darling? I'm sure the agent will know that and he will communicate it to Stanbo if Darling really prefers to stay.

But the trend is to go cheaper between the pipes, as much as I like #33 I doubt there is $5M/year out there for him.

I agree with the premise, but the math is broader than that. A tandem at $6.6MM right now must be compared to a new tandem of 33 + new guy at a net savings of $1-1.5MM, and a CC + new guy with a slight increase in cost after signing the backup.

With a team surrendering north of 30 shots on goal a night every night, if you accept the premise that CC + new guy > 33 + new guy, is $1-1.5MM in potential cap savings worth a worse goaltending tandem? And does the extra $1-1.5MM in cap really fix anything to solve the root causes of the high SOG totals?

Tough questions coming up for SB.
- Return of the Roar

Right, but my point is that you can't compare this year and next year from a cap standpoint. Darling is UFA and will get a raise. It is only a 1-1.5 mil different if Darling is gonna get 4.5 to 5 million per season. He likely gets closer to 3 or 3.5 mil and the difference for next year is 2.5 or 3 million in salary between CC and Darling. What they make this season really doesn't matter for next year. The budget for next year is next year.

My guess is that the new Vegas team won't help short term either - spreading the TV money around to now 31 teams instead of only 30.
- StLBravesFan

Logical thinking...Probably the only way they will help is if they become a waste land.
NHL better hope the NFL doesn't go to Vegas or they are really screwed.

Nice line of thinking, but if they don't get healthy, none of it likely matters. I DO think Toews is fine now. keith? Ehhhh, not so sure.

But, I also don't think those guys at 100% are enough. They must do something to get consistent scoring on a line other than AK72.
- John Jaeckel

If toews was truly 100% they would have that.

Great discussion, but can we all agree on no Iginla and no trading Hjalmarsson for a forward?
- 333inthe3rd

Hammer goes nowhere now....This summer maybe.

At this point in 33's career trajectory, his next deal is likely his best shot at the most money. If he does not sign before UFA opens up, I think he is gone. It is only natural for the FO to reach out now and see if homer discount is in order. Does not mean anything more than that right now.
- Return of the Roar

True, but I'm just saying his motivation might not be to get every dollar possible. He may be happy if his agent gets him a deal to stay in Chicago for 80-90% of what he would have got as UFA.

Hammer goes nowhere now....This summer maybe.
- Al

Say it ain't so. Hammer is, IMO, our most reliable Dman. Esp. with the aging of Seabrook...
Nest year, Campbell will be gone...as will Rosival....Seabrook and Keith will be another year older. The Hawk blueline needs Geritol.

Say it ain't so. Hammer is, IMO, our most reliable Dman. Esp. with the aging of Seabrook...
Nest year, Campbell will be gone...as will Rosival....Seabrook and Keith will be another year older. The Hawk blueline needs Geritol.
- tompo1015

I think the reason could be that he is the easiest to trade from the blue line. Easier contract to move, 10 team list instead of full NMC. Hawks just might be painted into a corner on cutting salary.

Thank you for saying this........well done. Been trying to hammer this home.

The cap is geared and rigged towards the middle group. Your Nashville's etc and honeslty your top teams are being penalized for it. There is no luxury cap to enable teams to go over, which may be in the next CBA, and it's not win for the NHLPA or the large market teams. With a cap about to be stagnant, top teams will lose players, and players hitting UFA will not maximize earnings because their will be little competition on the open market with mid to lower teams hovering around the cap floor due to inhouse budgets.

Honestly.....what they should do is retract some teams but that will never happen as NHLPA loses jobs, Bettman has egg on his face etc.

As far as the TV deal, realistically where can they go? I highly doubt ESPN gives them espn main network with NBA, MLB, and NCAAB or NCAAF on most nights, so they get banished to ESPN2 and what ratings would they get on ESPN2 that they aren't getting on NBCSN? Same holds true for ABC on Sundays.

I think owners like Wirtz have to push for the luxury tax....keep it reasonable say 10% above cap is all you can go and pay X amount to the kitty, but otherwise this league is truly screwed.
- SteveRain

The NHL's problems are many in terms of growing revenues (and these are my opinions only, coupled with what I've read in various places):

It's still a "regional" league, even if the region has grown beyond the small NE US / SE Canada. Florida, Carolina, Southern California, Texas , certainly Arizona - some fan growth there, but still not much opportunity to get kids involved - not enough rinks, not sure that getting them interested in roller hockey is the answer.

More than that, I think, is that it is still mostly a white game in terms of fans - Blacks or Hispanics wearing the Indianhead are still rare, and that's in a good hockey market - Trump may have won the election, but the minorities are still the markets that are growing the fastest. And not enough minorities in the league - none on the Hawks, for instance.

If they want to grow TV money short term, maybe they should look for a second network - like the other three main sports in the US - maybe go to ESPN 2 for a weekly game.

I think your window to win is 3 to 5 years, and by year 5 you will need some new blood who is in the top 6 at F and top 4 in D and producing and playing LARGE/IMPORTANT minutes. You can look at the Wings who have steadily bottomed out since their last cup win in 2008. Made it there in 2009, and then never have truly been heard from again in regards to challenging for it.
- SteveRain

Window is based on Duncan Keith. They will be competitive without him but it will be like Detroit was without Lidstrom. Unable to get over the hump.

Did you think Crawford could in the summer of 2010? Because the Hawks sure as hell didn't when they signed immortal Marty Turco.

Take this year's cap number maybe add 1 million to it, and factor in bonuses due to panarin, panarin's pay increase, bonuses due to Campbell, Kempny, and others and then put together a roster.

they have more organizational depth in goal then at D and Seabrook will stay if it came down to him vs CC. The organization doesn't trust 50 100%, and when idiots like Bernstein are being spoon fed that spin job stuff in January, tells you what's coming.

McDonough is always controlling the message he wants sent out.
- SteveRain

Yes, i thought they should have gone with Crow over Neimi in the summer of 2009 but that team was so stupid good the goalie really didnt matter.

This is tough call. NO RENTAL PLAYERS !! If they trade for major impact player, but give up some young talent, that will NOT guarantee cup for this year but could put them in the hole for next year and beyond. Don't forget Max Shulonov is probably coming next year, the kids should be better with year experience ..... should bode well for years to come. I think they should get an affordable but capable forward to play in the top nine, and provide competition for playing time with others ..... may the best players play. Who is that guy ????? I have no idea

Great discussion, but can we all agree on no Iginla and no trading Hjalmarsson for a forward?
- 333inthe3rd

You want to trade Hjalmarsson for Iginla???

Great discussion, but can we all agree on no Iginla and no trading Hjalmarsson for a forward?
- 333inthe3rd

Can't completely rule out the first, but I can the second.

Niklas Hjalmarsson is not going anywhere.