If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

I agree with the notion that they should take every opportunity to go all in every year. Do they lose some decent to good players? Sure, but if the worst we do is lose a guy like TT, then I see no harm in it. Saad hurt. A lot. Motte, Schmaltz et al are not on that level (my opinion).

That said, I don't want to lose any of the rookies for someone like Iginla. I don't see how that makes sense or makes you better now or in the future.

If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

At some point Stan has to trust his scouting staff ,and that the young ones he has kept out of past deals will progress .And I have seen some of that this season ,still a ways to go . It has become a young mans league and will continue in that direction IMO with a flat cap .And more and more teams will be playing young players . So this year or next for a run . With it being so much of young mans league, teams will be able to rebuild so much quicker . There will be no more Dynasty ,just as the league wants ..

Weise and your 1st rounder for a bag of pucks?
Done!

Edit: in response to the flyers fan.

If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

With the biggest issue facing this team being the forward depth after the top players, it is totally reasonable to expect improvement with growth from the players you mentioned. Nothing "magical" about it, just that the team should have improved depth with some experience for the young players.

If those guys aren't going to improve and help the team, then they might as well blow it up now, because the Hawks won't have the cap space to compete with the elite teams. Not without young cost controlled players that can contribute. Without that, forget it.

There has got to be a soon-to-be RFA out there that is reasonably priced that is borderline top 6. Darnit Isles...why did you have to rebound?

I think it's safe to assume if StanBo is thinking about extending Darling similar to the deal Greiss got--3 years for $10 mil, CC will be dealt.

The question is--what team, preferably in the east, needs a goalie, and/or can afford CC's cap hit?

There has got to be a soon-to-be RFA out there that is reasonably priced that is borderline top 6. Darnit Isles...why did you have to rebound?
- CanOCorn

Why would Stan want a pending RFA? UFA for sure, but an RFA just muddies the waters.

I'm not sold on the idea of a single acquisition (i.e. 1LW) being enough to put this team over the top. This group is closer to the 15/16 team than the 14/15 team. It a lot of ways this team feels like the 11/12 team (without the uber talented Frolik) and just needs time to gel together. I wouldn't be update if the Hawks didn't make a deadline move this year.

Why would Stan want a pending RFA? UFA for sure, but an RFA just muddies the waters.

I'm not sold on the idea of a single acquisition (i.e. 1LW) being enough to put this team over the top. This group is closer to the 15/16 team than the 14/15 team. It a lot of ways this team feels like the 11/12 team (without the uber talented Frolik) and just needs time to gel together. I wouldn't be update if the Hawks didn't make a deadline move this year.
- DarthKane

Usually cheaper, might get offer sheeted, and they can decide to let them go or not. And may not have to break the bank like they did for Panarin.

Also, just read this on Fanrag...quote from Darren Dreger about Duchene:

“I think that that’s where Sakic is going to get to at some point with Matt Duchene. In the moment, he’s looking for multiple pieces. And it always seems to be the same thing, isn’t it. It’s either a good young defenseman and a second or third-round draft pick and a prospect, or it’s a good young defenseman and a higher prospect and a lower pick, or a good young defenseman and a higher pick and a lower prospect. That type of scenario. Which is just too much.

“The managers that have interest in Matt Duchene that I’ve talked to, they chuckle when you ask them about the asking price. They won’t get into specifics out of respect to Colorado, but they just say, ‘It’s ridiculous. We’re not going to pay it.’

“Maybe that changes between now and March 1. Or perhaps it changes or there’s a willingness to pay that we talked about more freely in the off-season, but I don’t think it’s happening now.”

I agree with the notion that they should take every opportunity to go all in every year. Do they lose some decent to good players? Sure, but if the worst we do is lose a guy like TT, then I see no harm in it. Saad hurt. A lot. Motte, Schmaltz et al are not on that level (my opinion).

That said, I don't want to lose any of the rookies for someone like Iginla. I don't see how that makes sense or makes you better now or in the future.
- Chunk

I think Schmaltz could be one that would be regretted, and i wouldnt cut bait yet. He needs a shot to be a 2nd line RW. I think Motte is similar to TT. We want him to be special and we hype him up, but he's at best a 2nd liner on a good day and likely a 3rd line scorer.

That said, im going to play fantasy GM for a second and propose this. If we can acquire Duchene, and your "Top" line is PAK, and 2nd line is Duchene/Toews/Schmaltz, then im thrilled with that.

It would need to be a "volume" deal to get Duchene. We give up a High NUMBER of assets for him. (*Disclaimer- I dont think this the best deal COL will be offered, so I find it 99% unlikely it happens) BUT, to have a little fun and start the discussion here- if we offered something like a 5 assets for 1... maybe it works. think Duchene (with salary retained) for Kruger, Motte, Forsling, 2017 3rd round pick, 2018 3rd round pick. I personally think that is fair offer for Colorado... But, as I said, I think someone steps up with a better offer, so Its not the offer Colorado or their Fan are looking for... thus, it wont happen.

If this year isnt projected to be a cup year as is, then you need to make a move... or if you decide you dont want to make a move and next year isn't looking good either then why hold onto to Kruger anyway? I am a HUGE fan of Kruger. I am one of the very few who defend is contract. But if the Hawks are scheduled to takes steps back, then move him for an prospect/pick that can help you next year or 2 years from now and if you can package him to go All in this year, you do it.

PAK
Duchene/Toews/Schmaltz
Hartman/Kero/Hossa
Panik/Moose/Hino

I'd put those lines up vs any team. Granted we will only go as far as the goalies and defense allow, but thats a move that could get us there.

I think it's safe to assume if StanBo is thinking about extending Darling similar to the deal Greiss got--3 years for $10 mil, CC will be dealt.

The question is--what team, preferably in the east, needs a goalie, and/or can afford CC's cap hit?
- tompo1015

Thos would be a gigantic mistake. Darling can not handle the #1 role

Meh, upgrade the Bottom 6? OK, I think Boyle makes sense if you deal Kruger+ for something else. seems unlikely they could do both though.

Boyle makes zero difference this year if they don't add another skilled LW.
- John Jaeckel

Within the pending UFA pool there aren't a lot of quality options to fill the 1LW void. The situation becomes more difficult when the team isn't in the position to over pay, which is generally what is required at the trade deadline. You know that depth is required for a deep playoff run, Boyle makes the Hawks a deeper team. Patrick Eaves could also be a decent depth option.

1-Very unlikely anyone of core gets dealt at deadline. Stan typically does not do that.
2-Very unlikely we acquire anyone who is not an UFA at end of year. We don't have the cap space for that.
3-Very unlikely we acquire anyone of blockbuster (Duchene types) status as other teams have more assets to deal and more cap space to work with.
4-There is no "silver bullet" out there that we can acquire to put in a top six role to upgrade the top six. There just is not. And if there is, he ain't coming here.
5-Think of guys like Sharp, Oduya quality, but not studs, players we can maybe acquire at deadline.
6-This is a blog. It is meant to get everyone stirred about a potential trade. It's like the National Enquirer in that regard. Bowman has outright said don't expect much. So really guys....DON'T EXPECT MUCH.

1-Very unlikely anyone of core gets dealt at deadline. Stan typically does not do that.
2-Very unlikely we acquire anyone who is not an UFA at end of year. We don't have the cap space for that.
3-Very unlikely we acquire anyone of blockbuster (Duchene types) status as other teams have more assets to deal and more cap space to work with.
4-There is no "silver bullet" out there that we can acquire to put in a top six role to upgrade the top six. There just is not. And if there is, he ain't coming here.
5-Think of guys like Sharp, Oduya quality, but not studs, players we can maybe acquire at deadline.
6-This is a blog. It is meant to get everyone stirred about a potential trade. It's like the National Enquirer in that regard. Bowman has outright said don't expect much. So really guys....DON'T EXPECT MUCH.
- onehundredlevel

Under promise...over deliver. I won't say one way or the other until the trade deadline passes.

If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

I think the thing is John, an Iginla or Doan or someone above 35 is not the right person to skate with #19. And on top of it, another RW? Can I be wrong? 110% absolutely, yes. If they don't pony up to get a Duchene or Tatar, then odds are its a quick playoff tenure.

I'd like to think Tatar or Nyquist would be easier to achieve than Duchere

1-Very unlikely anyone of core gets dealt at deadline. Stan typically does not do that.
2-Very unlikely we acquire anyone who is not an UFA at end of year. We don't have the cap space for that.
3-Very unlikely we acquire anyone of blockbuster (Duchene types) status as other teams have more assets to deal and more cap space to work with.
4-There is no "silver bullet" out there that we can acquire to put in a top six role to upgrade the top six. There just is not. And if there is, he ain't coming here.
5-Think of guys like Sharp, Oduya quality, but not studs, players we can maybe acquire at deadline.
6-This is a blog. It is meant to get everyone stirred about a potential trade. It's like the National Enquirer in that regard. Bowman has outright said don't expect much. So really guys....DON'T EXPECT MUCH.
- onehundredlevel

#3- This is correct. I think the Hawks have assets to make a deal for Duchene, but some will offer MORE than what the Hawks will offer.

but as for #6- Take anything ANY GM says from now to the deadline with a grain of salt. Bowman said what every GM says these days. thats it.

If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

I somewhat agree with JJ and oldduffman. If the Hawks feel comfortable with Darling and Kero, and IF they can move Crawford and Kruger for draft picks (a late 1st or early 2nd for Crawford and a mid round pick for Kruger). The Hawks could have enough cap room to add players at the draft or in the summer.

The team is not old. They have a few more years in their cap window. Next year we probably will not have Rosi, Campbell, Desjardins, and Tootoo. So you will have only 1 forward over 29 years old (and a pretty good one in Hossa). The defensive core will have 3 players 30 to 34 (not old for defenders). Your starting goalie will be under 30. If they added a major piece like Duchene (or a similar player), the kids will have had another year under their belt, maybe Debrincat or Fortin are ready to join the team. The outlook is not that bad.

I know right ! Bowman = Dumbass ! (frank)in red font !!
- mrpaulish

I am/was a huge Uncle Dale fan and won't rehash old wounds. I still find it HILARIOUS at times how McDonough mouth pieces like say......Uncle Barry over at the DH, have never brought up cap hell once since the 2009-10 season that was pinned on Dale. Funny how those strings get maneuvered at the right time.

In reference to your post on the last blog on Hossa and the Bowmans. You are 100% wrong there. Hossa and his agent sought out the Hawks at the draft prior to the 7/1 period in 2010 after Hossa first hand saw the young talent, the Hawks had on and after Detroit chose Franzen to sign instead of Hossa long term. Dale was still in charge then.......so realistically nobody truly gets credit for that as the player truly sought out the Hawks and thus....you had the epic Marty Havlat melt down on social media after he thought he was a lock for a LT deal here.

Otherwise, outside of a few bad deals, which every GM in the modern cap world will make, I have very little to complain about with Bowman.

If not this year, when?

I honestly don't think that's how the team is thinking right now—they will default to that if they can't get something done.

Bowman's comments yesterday are the same thing he said at this time the last two seasons. Then he goes out and "overpays" (by some fans' estimation–even though it was the right thing to do) to make a bigger move.

I don't think anyone can assume that this team is magically a lot better next year based on the "growth" of Schmaltz, Motte, Hino et al, and if they don't make deep run next year, the following year you might be without Panarin, Keith is 36, Hossa is 40.

I think it's fair to say, your goalie tandem next year is not Crawford and Darling. So that area–which has saved this team much of the year—could easily be worse. Who are you gonna get to back up Crawford, for example, at 600K per year who's as good as Darling?

If you go with Darling, there likely is some drop off form CC to him. And then who, also, is the backup.

But bottom line, the economics of keeping both are not likely. So again, if not this year, when?
- John Jaeckel

I routinely get poked at but somebody posted Elliot's article about the FLAT CAP....gasp.....again, which I mentioned months ago. Very small, if any, increase there and it's really not hard to do the math.

God bless the internet and sites like capfriendly etc who give you the tools to get VERY close to the actual numbers. Factor is bonuses, pay increases, and the Hawks have to shed money. it's basic economics. This isn't a 1 year plunge like 2009-10 but instead it will be a constant moving target and while high AAV players produce and give you a REALISTIC shot at winning, when they start to decline it also goes south in a hurry.

And while I miss many of the depth/role guys who brought us glory as fans, those ships have sailed. When those bottom tiered guys want money the Hawks have to move on.....From Pahlsson to Bolland/Madden to Bolland/Kruger to Kruger/Shaw to Kruger/Hartman to Hartman/? next year?

What I will say and applaud Bowman for is he's getting good at finding Russian or Sweedish or College FAs who are ready to play NOW and give them a whirl. Some work, some don't. At least they actively pursue those guys who can step in and fill roles left by guys who dont' slide into what the Hawks CAN AFFORD to pay vs the Market COULD Bear.

IMO if you were looking at a curve for the hawks chances to win a cup(s) I realistically think they are still near the top but on the downward slide of it based on what we are seeing this year AFTER an early exit and all this talk about the much needed rest for the core. Most of them still look a step slower, etc, and before we go to the "all guys do it's January" defense......our elite guys don't look right and haven't for weeks/month(s) now.......

Thos would be a gigantic mistake. Darling can not handle the #1 role
- mrpaulish

May happen.

I somewhat agree with JJ and oldduffman. If the Hawks feel comfortable with Darling and Kero, and IF they can move Crawford and Kruger for draft picks (a late 1st or early 2nd for Crawford and a mid round pick for Kruger). The Hawks could have enough cap room to add players at the draft or in the summer.

The team is not old. They have a few more years in their cap window. Next year we probably will not have Rosi, Campbell, Desjardins, and Tootoo. So you will have only 1 forward over 29 years old (and a pretty good one in Hossa). The defensive core will have 3 players 30 to 34 (not old for defenders). Your starting goalie will be under 30. If they added a major piece like Duchene (or a similar player), the kids will have had another year under their belt, maybe Debrincat or Fortin are ready to join the team. The outlook is not that bad.
- -Doh-

I think your window to win is 3 to 5 years, and by year 5 you will need some new blood who is in the top 6 at F and top 4 in D and producing and playing LARGE/IMPORTANT minutes. You can look at the Wings who have steadily bottomed out since their last cup win in 2008. Made it there in 2009, and then never have truly been heard from again in regards to challenging for it.

I routinely get poked at but somebody posted Elliot's article about the FLAT CAP....gasp.....again, which I mentioned months ago. Very small, if any, increase there and it's really not hard to do the math.

God bless the internet and sites like capfriendly etc who give you the tools to get VERY close to the actual numbers. Factor is bonuses, pay increases, and the Hawks have to shed money. it's basic economics. This isn't a 1 year plunge like 2009-10 but instead it will be a constant moving target and while high AAV players produce and give you a REALISTIC shot at winning, when they start to decline it also goes south in a hurry.

And while I miss many of the depth/role guys who brought us glory as fans, those ships have sailed. When those bottom tiered guys want money the Hawks have to move on.....From Pahlsson to Bolland/Madden to Bolland/Kruger to Kruger/Shaw to Kruger/Hartman to Hartman/? next year?

What I will say and applaud Bowman for is he's getting good at finding Russian or Sweedish or College FAs who are ready to play NOW and give them a whirl. Some work, some don't. At least they actively pursue those guys who can step in and fill roles left by guys who dont' slide into what the Hawks CAN AFFORD to pay vs the Market COULD Bear.

IMO if you were looking at a curve for the hawks chances to win a cup(s) I realistically think they are still near the top but on the downward slide of it based on what we are seeing this year AFTER an early exit and all this talk about the much needed rest for the core. Most of them still look a step slower, etc, and before we go to the "all guys do it's January" defense......our elite guys don't look right and haven't for weeks/month(s) now.......
- SteveRain

And . . .

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST . . .

Remember this name this summer: Justin Kloos.

Thos would be a gigantic mistake. Darling can not handle the #1 role
- mrpaulish

Did you think Crawford could in the summer of 2010? Because the Hawks sure as hell didn't when they signed immortal Marty Turco.

Take this year's cap number maybe add 1 million to it, and factor in bonuses due to panarin, panarin's pay increase, bonuses due to Campbell, Kempny, and others and then put together a roster.

they have more organizational depth in goal then at D and Seabrook will stay if it came down to him vs CC. The organization doesn't trust 50 100%, and when idiots like Bernstein are being spoon fed that spin job stuff in January, tells you what's coming.

McDonough is always controlling the message he wants sent out.

Thos would be a gigantic mistake. Darling can not handle the #1 role
- mrpaulish

Scott Darling
22
12
5
2
2.31
1169:47
555
.925
2
45
600
0
Corey Crawford
33
18
12
3
2.55
1951:35
930
.918
2
83
1013
0

according to these numbers Darling has been just as good, if not better with the exact same team in front of him.........

1-Very unlikely anyone of core gets dealt at deadline. Stan typically does not do that.
2-Very unlikely we acquire anyone who is not an UFA at end of year. We don't have the cap space for that.
3-Very unlikely we acquire anyone of blockbuster (Duchene types) status as other teams have more assets to deal and more cap space to work with.
4-1) There is no "silver bullet" out there that we can acquire to put in a top six role to upgrade the top six. There just is not. And if there is, he ain't coming here.
5-Think of guys like Sharp, Oduya quality, but not studs, players we can maybe acquire at deadline.
6-This is a blog. It is meant to get everyone stirred about a potential trade. It's like the National Enquirer in that regard. 2) Bowman has outright said don't expect much. So really guys....DON'T EXPECT MUCH.
- onehundredlevel

1) All due respect, you don't know that. You don't. Unless you work for the Hawks in hockey ops. For the same reason, I don't KNOW the opposite to be true.

You may not like the rumors that are out there. But your post implies that there is no possibility of a top 6 upgrade out there and therefore it is not worth discussing.

That is patently incorrect.

I have been told, by someone I KNOW is in position to know, the Hawks are exploring it. Thoroughly. And names like Duchene, van Riemsdyk (James), Tatar, Nyquist have come up.

Everything in life, and especially hockey, is negotiable to some degree. The Detroit Red Wings, just one example, are 20-20-9. They need defensive help (NHL and prospect level), they have a glut of decent forwards and three guys who you would call "scoring" left wings. Then there's the fact of credible sources saying the teams have talked. So the process will play out, whether some choose to believe it or not.

2) Bowman has said the same the last two deadlines. He says it every year. Some years it holds true, the last two, it hasn't. So what does that tell you. "Always believe the GM because they never make deliberately vague, or misdirecting statements regarding their intentions."

Mmmm. I guess if you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to talk to you about.

As far as the National Enquirer, i don't know what they're journalistic standards are. And while blogs are admittedly sort of the Wild West of journalism (at best), in this one, I don't just make the stuff up. If I had that kind of ability, I'd be making a lot more money writing screenplays. And a lot of the stuff I impart does happen. Why? Because I vet the sources and I cross check the information as much as possible.

No offense taken. I just think the "dismissive" implication in your post is not supported by recent history.

1) All due respect, you don't know that. You don't. Unless you work for the Hawks in hockey ops. For the same reason, I don't KNOW the opposite to be true.

You may not like the rumors that are out there. But your post implies that there is no possibility of a top 6 upgrade out there and therefore it is not worth discussing.

That is patently incorrect.

I have been told, by someone I KNOW is in position to know, the Hawks are exploring it. Thoroughly. And names like Duchene, van Riemsdyk (James), Tatar, Nyquist have come up.

Everything in life, and especially hockey, is negotiable to some degree. The Detroit Red Wings, just one example, are 20-20-9. They need defensive help (NHL and prospect level), they have a glut of decent forwards and three guys who you would call "scoring" left wings. Then there's the fact of credible sources saying the teams have talked. So the process will play out, whether some choose to believe it or not.

2) Bowman has said the same the last two deadlines. He says it every year. Some years it holds true, the last two, it hasn't. So what does that tell you. "Always believe the GM because they never make deliberately vague, or misdirecting statements regarding their intentions."

Mmmm. I guess if you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to talk to you about.

As far as the National Enquirer, i don't know what they're journalistic standards are. And while blogs are admittedly sort of the Wild West of journalism (at best), in this one, I don't just make the stuff up. If I had that kind of ability, I'd be making a lot more money writing screenplays. And a lot of the stuff I impart does happen. Why? Because I vet the sources and I cross check the information as much as possible.

No offense taken. I just think the "dismissive" implication in your post is not supported by recent history.
- John Jaeckel

BTW, add this name to the list:

Martin Hanzal. He is on the Hawks list as well. Sorta sounded late yesterday like he was rising up the list too. And yes, there is and has been a list.