He would be a rental. That said, I would trade 10 Nick Schmaltzes for another Cup.

Cuz in a few years, when the present core is gone or faded, 10 Nick Schmaltzes aren't winning you a Cup.

Does Hanzal put you over the top? By himself, probably not.

But . . . but . . . BECAUSE the hawks have guys playing ion the top 6 who are slotted over their heads and BETTER as bottom 6 guys, if you add a hanzal or a Tatar or a JVR or a Duchene in, you upgrade that line, and whatever line Panik/Hartman/Schmaltz go back to . . . AND you push Tootoo back into the press box.

Quite transformative.
- John Jaeckel

Correct. And I hear the Hawks brass are high on the idea of getting John Hayden into a Hawks sweater as soon as the Yale season ends. Don't shoot the messenger -- I understand going from NCAA to NHL playoff hockey is a huge jump. That said, I've heard they love his overall development this year (particularly in his two-way game) and the size, character, hockey sense he could bring to the bottom six mix. Have you heard anything about Hayden, JJ?

k JJ....

With what you have heard about the possible deal the Hawks offered for Duchene, would you do the trade?

Why would Detroit care anymore? We aren't even in the same conference and we have dat Bowman connection.
- JRoenick97

They will trade with the Hawks but to get Vanek the Hawks will have to overpay. Detroit is well aware of what is in the Hawks system...

Correct. And I hear the Hawks brass are high on the idea of getting John Hayden into a Hawks sweater as soon as the Yale season ends. Don't shoot the messenger -- I understand going from NCAA to NHL playoff hockey is a huge jump. That said, I've heard they love his overall development this year (particularly in his two-way game) and the size, character, hockey sense he could bring to the bottom six mix. Have you heard anything about Hayden, JJ?
- gmurban

I've seen a lot of people here say relatively positive things about Hayden. All I know is what Elite Prospects says about him. He's big and has some offense to him. Is he supposed to project to be a Backes type player (minus the obvious internal animosity)?

It can work if you deal say 16.....However would Q go into the playoffs trust 67/70 centering his bottom 6 or would they move 11 to c?

As far as the cap comment goes, with you there, as I went on cap friendly and putting Duchene in next year, dropping 16, and factoring bonuses of 3+ million has you in DEEP trouble. Even trading 50 and signing 33 for 3 million, leaves you little room.

Going to be a very interesting next few weeks to see what Bowman does/doesn't do.
- SteveRain

Then the Hawks would be +$3 mill cap wise- difference between Kruger and Duchene and then the Panarin deal....That's a big chunk.

I've seen a lot of people here say relatively positive things about Hayden. All I know is what Elite Prospects says about him. He's big and has some offense to him. Is he supposed to project to be a Backes type player (minus the obvious internal animosity)?
- Chunk

But is he a dog lover?

That's what I was told, but honestly . . . and I mean this . . . I think it would be a master stroke if SB got Duchene, and not real high in terms of likelihood, but you never know.
- John Jaeckel

The problem right now is it's too early to tell. A lot can happen between now and the trade deadline, we don't really know who will be buyers and sellers outside of a couple teams for sure at this point. Right now there's supposed to be be around 10 to 12 teams interested in Duchene. Obviously varying levels of interest and the number is sure to change as more options become available.

So it's a waiting game that requires patience and keeping the lines of communication open. Would love to see Stan pull it off.

But is he a dog lover?
- HawkintheD

He's smarter than that, he's a cat lover.

Maxim shalnuv, looks like they won there last 2 games and are back in the playoff hunt. I think they are at 79 points (tied for 8th) with 4 games to play. Does anbody know if that is accurate? looks to be 4 teams trying to get 3 spots.

http://www.livescore.com/hockey/khl/

JJ I just joined up. Curious if you read other bloggers posts. Reason being I happened to read the Pittsburgh guys cry fest over malkin being left out of the top 100. I get the frustration he does deserve to be on it but why center toews out and bash him like that? just curious on your thoughts and if you thought about defending tazer. Is Ryan Wilson just a Hawk/Toews hater? Canada hater? Just seems really angry.
- Thoroldbhawks

Thorold kicked our bantam behinds back in the Ontario semi finals.......early 70'so haha.....hate you guys

I think Joe Sakic has been drinking since 10am this morning. I mean, realistically, the Ryan O'Reilly trade has been a colossal disaster for him. He took a Division Winning team in 2014 and turned them into the worst team in the league over the last 27 years. How long is Sakic's leash??
- EnzoD

Dunno, compared to Patrick Roy he probably still looks like a genius.

The problem right now is it's too early to tell. A lot can happen between now and the trade deadline, we don't really know who will be buyers and sellers outside of a couple teams for sure at this point. Right now there's supposed to be be around 10 to 12 teams interested in Duchene. Obviously varying levels of interest and the number is sure to change as more options become available.

So it's a waiting game that requires patience and keeping the lines of communication open. Would love to see Stan pull it off.
- walleyeb1

^^^^^^^^^^

I say trade Crawford, a legit prospect(like Schmaltz or Forsling), and a pick in some sort of package for a quality LW, find a cheap backup goalie, and then maybe try to add another depth forward after that.

If we can get deep at forward, with our depth at D, i believe in Darling and whoever else we can get to hold down the fort.

But the point is to get as deep as possible, so trading someone already starting in the lineup at forward(like Kruger) or D(like Hammer or Seabrook) to make it happen gets you nowhere, all it does is fill in one hole by creating another.

I think at the goalie position we can A. Create the most cap space to maximize return by moving a 6M cap hit, and B. Still remain effective with Darling taking over, lots of games played now with both goalies putting up near identical numbers behind the same team. That won't/wouldn't change.

They will trade with the Hawks but to get Vanek the Hawks will have to overpay. Detroit is well aware of what is in the Hawks system...
- Al

Hawks will have to "overpay" to acquire a top 6 LW. That is pretty much given. Bowman is not in a great position to start with.

If it helps them win a Cup (see: Vermette, A.), no one will complain.

If it doesn't (see Ladd A.), some will complain, others will recognize it's the cost of going for a Cup.

The only exception would be if we could somehow pull off a Kruger+ for Duchene package deal. Or maybe Kruger+ for JVR. A legit 1LW all star caliber forward.

But IMO, that's never gonna happen. Not enough value on the Hawks side, too many other teams would destroy that offer.

I would too, but Nick Schmaltz for Martin Hanzal doesn't guarantee a Cup (obviously).

If Stan is looking to deal and deal young cost controlled assets like Schmaltz, while dealing with the Cap conundrum, my prefernce would be that it was for someone who has the ability to be on the team next year.

Edit - also I'm not sure how Hanzal helps solve the 1LW issue.
- HawkintheD

Agreed he doesn't guarantee it. But he helps in a lot of ways.

Hanzal can play wing. Like Duchene.

k JJ....

With what you have heard about the possible deal the Hawks offered for Duchene, would you do the trade?
- z1990z

If I'm SB, yes. But I am of the "Cup Window School," and not convinced the Hawk prospects are all that great as far as their future upside. Not terrible, but not guys you build around in 5-10 years.

If I'm Sakic, dunno. I don't know what other offers he's getting or what his scouting is on guys like Forsling, deBrincat and Fortin. He knows what Kruger is. Kruger can help them in a couple of ways, but not carry them to the league's upper echelons (obviously).

I have heard he "loves" (someone else's words) Forsling.

I've seen a lot of people here say relatively positive things about Hayden. All I know is what Elite Prospects says about him. He's big and has some offense to him. Is he supposed to project to be a Backes type player (minus the obvious internal animosity)?
- Chunk

I think Stanley would go streaking down Madison Street if Hayden was 85-90% the hockey talent Backes is. Setting aside mentality.

Then the Hawks would be +$3 mill cap wise- difference between Kruger and Duchene and then the Panarin deal....That's a big chunk.
- Al

The Hawks have some cap room freed up at present—or so I was told the other night. I will not pretend to follow their cap compliance every day.

k JJ....

With what you have heard about the possible deal the Hawks offered for Duchene, would you do the trade?
- z1990z

One more thing, the deal I heard did involve an AHL defenseman with some upside coming back form CO, and the Avs swallowing a little bit of salary too.

That, to my estimation, just my opinion, evens out what is otherwise a fairly generous deal to Colorado. A package of say, Kruger, Forsling, debrincat and a 2018 first round pick is pretty damn generous and a lot more than a bag of doorknobs. But maybe that's the crazy pills again.

If I'm SB, yes. But I am of the "Cup Window School," and not convinced the Hawk prospects are all that great as far as their future upside. Not terrible, but not guys you build around in 5-10 years.

If I'm Sakic, dunno. I don't know what other offers he's getting or what his scouting is on guys like Forsling, deBrincat and Fortin. He knows what Kruger is. Kruger can help them in a couple of ways, but not carry them to the league's upper echelons (obviously).

I have heard he "loves" (someone else's words) Forsling.
- John Jaeckel

Normally I'd say Sakic can love Forsling as much as he wants to but #42 still wouldn't be the main component in a trade to land Duchene. But ever since the Hall/Larsson trade anything is possible. Although I still believe it's very unlikely that Stan lands Duchene.

Correct. And I hear the Hawks brass are high on the idea of getting John Hayden into a Hawks sweater as soon as the Yale season ends. Don't shoot the messenger -- I understand going from NCAA to NHL playoff hockey is a huge jump. That said, I've heard they love his overall development this year (particularly in his two-way game) and the size, character, hockey sense he could bring to the bottom six mix. Have you heard anything about Hayden, JJ?
- gmurban

Big, good college numbers. Beyond that, no not really.

But as far as the Hawks hyping him or even just privately being anxious to get him in, two words: Drew LeBlanc.

DBTH. Wait and see. You're right. He COULD defy the conventional wisdom re: jumping from college to the pros. But . . .

I would also watch what the Hawks do with Justin Kloos out of Minnesota. I heard recently they really like him.

I say trade Crawford, a legit prospect(like Schmaltz or Forsling), and a pick in some sort of package for a quality LW, find a cheap backup goalie, and then maybe try to add another depth forward after that.

If we can get deep at forward, with our depth at D, i believe in Darling and whoever else we can get to hold down the fort.

But the point is to get as deep as possible, so trading someone already starting in the lineup at forward(like Kruger) or D(like Hammer or Seabrook) to make it happen gets you nowhere, all it does is fill in one hole by creating another.

I think at the goalie position we can A. Create the most cap space to maximize return by moving a 6M cap hit, and B. Still remain effective with Darling taking over, lots of games played now with both goalies putting up near identical numbers behind the same team. That won't/wouldn't change.
- SimpleJack

Go into the playoffs with Darling and ???? That sounds risky when the biggest strength right now is the goaltending. Even with Crawford being "shaky" since the surgery. I think Crawford can be traded but likely not until the off season. Trading him in season is too big a risk. Because if Darling goes down in that scenario this season is finished.

I think its pretty clear Sakic is indicating he wants a top 3 dman.

not a bottom pair dman
- hawkeytalkman

Keith and Krueger for
Duchene and Tyson Barrie

Get younger and faster immediately !!

Of course with the NMC's........ Keith would NEVER allow it.

Normally I'd say Sakic can love Forsling as much as he wants to but #42 still wouldn't be the main component in a trade to land Duchene. But ever since the Hall/Larsson trade anything is possible. Although I still believe it's very unlikely that Stan lands Duchene.
- DarthKane

I can't argue with a word. You are seeing it the right way.

You know it's funny, people keep citing Dreger's or Friedman's comments about what Sakic wants. But then they don't cite the other "experts'" comments that no one is willing to pay the Avs price.

Seems like wanting to have it both ways as far as "facts" that are nothing more than "expert" opinions.

Bottom line, the actual "market" for Duchene will settle about February 25. And the actual number of "available" left wings will probably settle a wee bit before then—with more available than right now.

Until then any proclamations about deals that will or won't happen are pretty much guesses. I don't predict deals will happen. I report conversations and only when I'm fairly sure they've happened.

And it sounds to me like Bowman is willing (at least) to chump up big to fill that LW hole with the "right" guy.