You could make the argument that TVR is established. Playoff starts, decent numbers, passes the eye test.
- JRoenick97

I think its pretty clear Sakic is indicating he wants a top 3 dman.

not a bottom pair dman

I think its pretty clear Sakic is indicating he wants a top 3 dman.

not a bottom pair dman
- hawkeytalkman

He might be a 4D on that team, but yeah, not top 3 D.

Sakic will take someone like Trouba or Hamonic long before he accepts Stan's bag of doorknobs

Matt Duchene for one. Is available. For the right price.

And he's better than Versteeg or Stalberg, I think.

Dunno, maybe not, because . . . crazy pills.
- John Jaeckel

Sakic will take someone like Trouba or Hamonic long before he accepts Stan's bag of doorknobs
- hawkeytalkman

Trouba and Hamonic would have to be on the table.

I guess my concern is a top 4 D going back. Our D is shaky at best right. Dont know what all player wise was discussed. I would think a decent salary would have to go back to balance out what Duchene has left on his deal.
- z1990z

Who said top 4 D? I have seen that out there, but I have not heard Sakic saying it.

Point being: there are at best "conflicting" reports on what the Avs actually want. If the hard, non-negotiable price is a present-day top 4 defenseman, then no, the Hawks would not be bidders. That said, not being a drinking buddy of Sakic, I don't know that for sure. Nor do 6.9999999 billion other people on this planet.

Sakic will take someone like Trouba or Hamonic long before he accepts Stan's bag of doorknobs
- hawkeytalkman

Buy Joe a round for me. He was a helluva player. Thanks.

He would be a rental. That said, I would trade 10 Nick Schmaltzes for another Cup.

Cuz in a few years, when the present core is gone or faded, 10 Nick Schmaltzes aren't winning you a Cup.

Does Hanzal put you over the top? By himself, probably not.

But . . . but . . . BECAUSE the hawks have guys playing ion the top 6 who are slotted over their heads and BETTER as bottom 6 guys, if you add a hanzal or a Tatar or a JVR or a Duchene in, you upgrade that line, and whatever line Panik/Hartman/Schmaltz go back to . . . AND you push Tootoo back into the press box.

Quite transformative.
- John Jaeckel

Ah that's the question, is Duchene the piece that gets you the cup??? Obviously no one can answer that with certainty. Does he increase your chances, yes, by how much I'm not sure. How much are you willing to pay pshould be proportionate to how much you think he improves your chances.

Ah that's the question, is Duchene the piece that gets you the cup??? Obviously no one can answer that with certainty. Does he increase your chances, yes, by how much I'm not sure. How much are you willing to pay pshould be proportionate to how much you think he improves your chances.
- walleyeb1

I'd be willing to say Duchene improves their chances by more than any rental they have gotten, including cup years. He'd be the 3rd or 4th best forward on the team if acquired.

What's the price range for Duchene in your estimation?

What I saw this AM was:

- a player
- a good prospect
- a pick

I was told the Hawks offered that and more.
- John Jaeckel

"player"--Kruger? if that's the cost, I'm in.

"A good prospect"? Forsling? Done. Motte Done. Schmaltz? eh...yeah, maybe.

"a pick"? 2018's first? Or a Second? Done. Cuz, when StanBo trades CC, he'll get that pick back.

I think its pretty clear Sakic is indicating he wants a top 3 dman.

not a bottom pair dman
- hawkeytalkman

How is this clear? And if it is clear, it is a present day top 4 d-man, or future top 4 D. Cuz there is, ahem, an argument the Avs are at least a couple of years away.

Listen, it MAY WELL BE Sakic is dead set on acquiring a top 4 defenseman for Duchene. I get it. I just haven't heard it form anyone that makes me say: yes, that guy knows. I don't care what Adrian Dater says a month before the trade deadline.

But . . . it also is even more likely, the Hawks will be outbid.

But if Marcus Kruger, Gustav Forsling, Alex deBrincat and a 2018 first round pick are "a bag of doorknobs," then by all means, trade the entirety of the talent pipeline to win the Cup this year. T

Because this team (by your logic) is doomed if it holds on to those "doorknobs" with such horrible scouts who can't make first round picks.

DOOOOOOOOMED.

Buy Joe a round for me. He was a helluva player. Thanks.
- John Jaeckel

dont get testy just because other reports arent supporting the type of package Chicago CANT offer

Dreger can be a puppet for TOR media at times, but he is being pretty forthcoming that COL is asking a lot and the one specific position of need bleeding out there is a high level dman

Both Freidman and Dreger stated they are out there looking to add dmen

Ah that's the question, is Duchene the piece that gets you the cup??? Obviously no one can answer that with certainty. Does he increase your chances, yes, by how much I'm not sure. How much are you willing to pay pshould be proportionate to how much you think he improves your chances.
- walleyeb1

A pretty fair amount.

Can't stress it enough . . .

Apparently can't say it enough . . .

It is ALL about depth and match ups created by depth in the playoffs. And when I say depth, that STARTS with quality depth at the top of your roster, top 4, top 6.

I can't guarantee Keith's health or other factors, but yes, Matt Duchene added into the Hawk top 6 at LW and as a secondary FO option on the PP and PK is a significant upgrade to the top 6 that also allows upgrades by default to other lines through his presence (i.e., Panik/Hartman moving down, Hossa back up)

How is this clear? And if it is clear, it is a present day top 4 d-man, or future top 4 D. Cuz there is, ahem, an argument the Avs are at least a couple of years away.

Listen, it MAY WELL BE Sakic is dead set on acquiring a top 4 defenseman for Duchene. I get it. I just haven't heard it form anyone that makes me say: yes, that guy knows. I don't care what Adrian Dater says a month before the trade deadline.

But . . . it also is even more likely, the Hawks will be outbid.

But if Marcus Kruger, Gustav Forsling, Alex deBrincat and a 2018 first round pick are "a bag of doorknobs," then by all means, trade the entirety of the talent pipeline to win the Cup this year. T

Because this team (by your logic) is doomed if it holds on to those "doorknobs" with such horrible scouts who can't make first round picks.

DOOOOOOOOMED.
- John Jaeckel

I don't like the idea of dumping Debrincat and Forsling, but Duchene is a legit top 6 player right now. He's got elite speed and hands. Neither of those guys are guaranteed to do anything, so if that's the cost, you make that move. You make it today. Cap sell off in the summer.

dont get testy just because other reports arent supporting the type of package Chicago CANT offer

Dreger can be a puppet for TOR media at times, but he is being pretty forthcoming that COL is asking a lot and the one specific position of need bleeding out there is a high level dman

Both Freidman and Dreger stated they are out there looking to add dmen
- hawkeytalkman

Not getting testy. You may need to lighten up a bit there. It was a joke, Ace.

What position does Gustav Forsling play?

Again, I would not wager my retirement on the Hawks getting Duchene. But . . .

It's a month out from the trade deadline.

Some things will change and so will some opinions and "insider information."

How is this clear? And if it is clear, it is a present day top 4 d-man, or future top 4 D. Cuz there is, ahem, an argument the Avs are at least a couple of years away.

Listen, it MAY WELL BE Sakic is dead set on acquiring a top 4 defenseman for Duchene. I get it. I just haven't heard it form anyone that makes me say: yes, that guy knows. I don't care what Adrian Dater says a month before the trade deadline.

But . . . it also is even more likely, the Hawks will be outbid.

But if Marcus Kruger, Gustav Forsling, Alex deBrincat and a 2018 first round pick are "a bag of doorknobs," then by all means, trade the entirety of the talent pipeline to win the Cup this year. T

Because this team (by your logic) is doomed if it holds on to those "doorknobs" with such horrible scouts who can't make first round picks.

DOOOOOOOOMED.
- John Jaeckel

http://www.fanragsports.c...stically-wrong-direction/

Dreger:

The TSN panel addressed this issue on Insider Trading Tuesday night.

“It’s a lot, and you can understand why it would be a high price,” noted Darren Dreger. “We’re talking about a top-level defenseman, a first-round draft pick, plus.

“Now, to some around the National Hockey League who have interest, primarily from the Eastern Conference, it’s a bit outrageous. You’re talking about a 24-year-old hockey player here, questionably a second-line type of player, and he’s only had a couple of seasons where he’s had 60 points or more.

“So the asking price right now is high, but if you’re Joe Sakic it’s early enough that you can command that type of ask.”


Freidman:

“I’ve always been kind of informed that the Avalanche’s plans were they have $17 million coming off their cap at the end of this year, and they were going to do what it took with that kind of freedom to try add at least one defenseman, but hopefully two. I still do think that’s their plan, though I’m sure they’re getting lots of calls asking them if they feel any differently.”

Not getting testy. You may need to lighten up a bit there. It was a joke, Ace.

What position does Gustav Forsling play?
- John Jaeckel

how about a little less talking down to people and talk in a civil, adult tone

dont make me laugh. Forsling is a project at best still and far from a high end dman despite all his skill

how about a little less talking down to people and talk in a civil, adult tone

dont make me laugh. Forsling is a project at best still and far from a high end dman despite all his skill
- hawkeytalkman

Pot, meet kettle. Please quote where I "spoke down" to you, beyond disagreeing (which I, also, am allowed to do). I did not even say you were wrong—all I said was essentially "keep an open mind on what could happen."

And in so doing I made a joke about you (or anyone, myself included) being a drinking buddy of Sakic's.

But this conversation is over.

how about a little less talking down to people and talk in a civil, adult tone

dont make me laugh. Forsling is a project at best still and far from a high end dman despite all his skill
- hawkeytalkman

The big caveat to your point here is that you (not you specifically, but anyone other than Sakic) don't know how high of regard they hold other teams' prospects/players. Look at the Larsson/Hall trade. Everyone said that NJ made out like a banshee on that, but that is apparently how high they viewed Larsson. I'm sure they could have gotten back a number of different D-men for Hall (surely bigger names), but they got Larsson.

Pot, meet kettle. Please quote where I "spoke down" to you, beyond disagreeing (which I, also, am allowed to do). I did not even say you were wrong—all I said was essentially "keep an open mind on what could happen."

And in so doing I made a joke about you (or anyone, myself included) being a drinking buddy of Sakic's.

But this conversation is over.
- John Jaeckel

How about the condescending nicknames, grandpa

like that

I have been civil with you, so dont give me any of your pet nicknames to try and talk down to me

The big caveat to your point here is that you (not you specifically, but anyone other than Sakic) don't know how high of regard they hold other teams' prospects/players. Look at the Larsson/Hall trade. Everyone said that NJ made out like a banshee on that, but that is apparently how high they viewed Larsson. I'm sure they could have gotten back a number of different D-men for Hall (surely bigger names), but they got Larsson.
- Chunk

Exactly. Thanks.

How about the condescending nicknames, grandpa

like that

I have been civil with you, so dont give me any of your pet nicknames to try and talk down to me
- hawkeytalkman

Bye.

How about the condescending nicknames, grandpa

like that

I have been civil with you, so dont give me any of your pet nicknames to try and talk down to me
- hawkeytalkman

The big caveat to your point here is that you (not you specifically, but anyone other than Sakic) don't know how high of regard they hold other teams' prospects/players. Look at the Larsson/Hall trade. Everyone said that NJ made out like a banshee on that, but that is apparently how high they viewed Larsson. I'm sure they could have gotten back a number of different D-men for Hall (surely bigger names), but they got Larsson.
- Chunk

Larsson was always regarded as a 2/3 dman at the time and yes EDM had to overpay to get one because their need was so great.

There is a big stretch to compare someone like Larsson was playing very well top pair minutes in NJD at the time and improving while being a former top 5 overall pick vs Forsling who isnt even an every day player and hasnt shown much outside of having some nice raw skill

- JRoenick97

Nothing to see here. Including soon, the poster in question.