.......it's a sunk cost. It doesn't matter about value relative to cost. It's just about value relative to winning.
- Mononoke

Agreed

I disagree, it absolutely matters. It also matters that he is playing high minutes and playing well. It increases the odds of being able to move him in a trade, however small.
- MJL

When Hakstol writes his lineup, I highly doubt cap numbers are attached to the players jersey number. I believe there was a picture of Hak's lineup card, I did not see cap numbers on the lineup card

The concern you have is a distant one

When Hakstol writes his lineup, I highly doubt cap numbers are attached to the players jersey number. I believe there was a picture of Hak's lineup card, I did not see cap numbers on the lineup card

The concern you have is a distant one
- Just5

None of that is relevant to my point. I agree that the coach is not considering a players cap hit when he chooses who is going to play and who isn't and how much.

going to watch the caps/pens here and think long and hard about us sucking

1000 points for OV. how time flies. Letang played that pretty weakly

Turned that game on and wanted to puke. Can't they both lose?

I don't know how you could disagree with that. Two other Flyers actually touched the puck after the original turnover by MacDonald. MacDonald even blocked a shot later in the sequence. MacDonald made an error on the turnover, but he played with effort. The captain on the other hand, made a very weak effort and stopped skating while Kane skated into the slot, and rammed it home. MacDonald is not without sin on the sequence, but he is far from the main culprit.

Giroux is the biggest culprit on both the 2nd and 3rd goal scored by the Sabres. He was lazy and stopped skating on two coverage on the goal scorers.
- MJL

True.

Nightly mulling over the seating chart for his upcoming nuptials has him extremely distracted, so I've heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFonYwoWgro

Where has all this gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFonYwoWgro

Where has all this gone?
- Just5

I want to say he is just on the downward slide and old man time has taken its toll I dunno..

Its distressing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFonYwoWgro

Where has all this gone?
- Just5

Pronger, Jagr, Hartnell, Timmonen

What an ending to the sixers game!!

Need to get in there tomorrow and muck for pucks. While doing that lets do some grinding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFonYwoWgro

Where has all this gone?
- Just5

I miss this Giroux. The Giroux who went to the net and imposed himself on the game rather than the perimeter player we see far too often now.

I miss this Giroux. The Giroux who went to the net and imposed himself on the game rather than the perimeter player we see far too often now.
- MBFlyerfan

The Giroux that skated with authority

I miss this Giroux. The Giroux who went to the net and imposed himself on the game rather than the perimeter player we see far too often now.
- MBFlyerfan

Watching that, he still physically looks like the same player. He's not much slower and he's never been a burner anyway, he's still got the hands and the grit, but there's just been something missing for a couple years now. Yes, the team has been bad, especially the defense, and he's had to be better defensively and all that jazz. But it feels like an excuse at this point. It used to be that other players were the ones who needed Giroux on their line, not the opposite.

Some of us were hush-hush talking before the season about his trending down 5v5. Of course people trot out the BS argument, "What PP points don't count?" in response. They're two different situations. He's always been good on the PP, and that's not where decline happens. At 5v5 we're seeing a downward trend years in the making that has been worrisome. His points this year 5v5 have completely bottomed out. His points/60 is #10 out of 15 on the Flyers forward, 1 spot behind VandeVelde, and only ahead of Schenn, Lyubimov, Gordon, Weise, Bellemare. But the PP scoring just obfuscates that so people can rag on others. This is Claude mother (frank)ing Giroux we're talking about. Like I said, he doesn't look any different really, but there seems to be a lack of killer instinct and moxie and, I agree, a perimeter style where 5v5 has basically become a PP situation to him. He needs to attack the net more, work with defenders on his hip more. Maybe it's not just a decline but a mentality thing. All I know is this can't keep going on.

I miss this Giroux. The Giroux who went to the net and imposed himself on the game rather than the perimeter player we see far too often now.
- MBFlyerfan

More explosive of a skater and definitely around the net more.

Watching that, he still physically looks like the same player. He's not any slower and he's never been a burner anyway, he's still got the hands and the grit, but there's just been something missing for a couple years now. Yes, the team has been bad, especially the defense, and he's had to be better defensively and all that jazz. But it feels like an excuse at this point. It used to be that other players were the ones who needed Giroux on their line, not the opposite.

Some of us were hush-hush talking before the season about his trending down 5v5. Of course people trot out the BS argument, "What PP points don't count?" in response. They're two different situations. He's always been good on the PP, and that's not where decline happens. At 5v5 we're seeing a downward trend years in the making that has been worrisome. His points this year 5v5 have completely bottomed out. His points/60 is #10 out of 15 on the Flyers forward, 1 spot behind VandeVelde, and only ahead of Schenn, Lyubimov, Gordon, Weise, Bellemare. But the PP scoring just obfuscates that so people can rag on others. This is Claude mother (frank)ing Giroux we're talking about. Like I said, he doesn't look any different really, but there seems to be a lack of killer instinct and moxie and, I agree, a perimeter style where 5v5 has basically become a PP situation to him. He needs to attack the net more, work with defenders on his hip more. Maybe it's not just a decline but a mentality thing. All I know is this can't keep going on.
- Mononoke

Not sure what you watched, but there is a clear difference in the explosiveness then, compared to now. The difference is obvious, and significant. I think the wear and tear has affected his game. Still a good player, but no longer the player he was.

Watching that, he still physically looks like the same player. He's not much slower and he's never been a burner anyway, he's still got the hands and the grit, but there's just been something missing for a couple years now. Yes, the team has been bad, especially the defense, and he's had to be better defensively and all that jazz. But it feels like an excuse at this point. It used to be that other players were the ones who needed Giroux on their line, not the opposite.

Some of us were hush-hush talking before the season about his trending down 5v5. Of course people trot out the BS argument, "What PP points don't count?" in response. They're two different situations. He's always been good on the PP, and that's not where decline happens. At 5v5 we're seeing a downward trend years in the making that has been worrisome. His points this year 5v5 have completely bottomed out. His points/60 is #10 out of 15 on the Flyers forward, 1 spot behind VandeVelde, and only ahead of Schenn, Lyubimov, Gordon, Weise, Bellemare. But the PP scoring just obfuscates that so people can rag on others. This is Claude mother (frank)ing Giroux we're talking about. Like I said, he doesn't look any different really, but there seems to be a lack of killer instinct and moxie and, I agree, a perimeter style where 5v5 has basically become a PP situation to him. He needs to attack the net more, work with defenders on his hip more. Maybe it's not just a decline but a mentality thing. All I know is this can't keep going on.
- Mononoke

After looking at that again...attacking the net is huge. He doesn't do it nearly as much as this video proves he did. It sucks he had more power in everything he did back then

Not sure what you watched, but there is a clear difference in the explosiveness then, compared to now. The difference is obvious, and significant. I think the wear and tear has affected his game. Still a good player, but no longer the player he was.
- MJL

He's not quite as explosive, but I meant he's not much slower, in some greatly noticeable way. It's never been his biggest strength anyway, and I don't think that's the major reason why his points have declined 5v5. He'll still flash burst. Heck, just last game he got the edge on a d-man, slid it under his stick, and got the penalty called on a breakaway. But he just doesn't have that attack mentality much anymore.

It feels more mental to me. He stays on his half wall even at 5v5 and tries to make seam passes. He isn't playing with guys on his hip like he used to and expertly so....he seems more willing to just dish it off under duress. He doesn't drive the net; he lets his wingers do that. He seems too comfortable with the same 3 plays he always does. I really do hope the coaches try to drill this into him because it's a trend that's not going away. Honestly, he needs to watch some tape of himself.

He's not quite as explosive, but I meant he's not much slower, in some greatly noticeable way. It's never been his biggest strength anyway, and I don't think that's the major reason why his points have declined 5v5. He'll still flash burst. Heck, just last game he got the edge on a d-man, slid it under his stick, and got the penalty called on a breakaway. But he just doesn't have that attack mentality much anymore.

It feels more mental to me. He stays on his half wall even at 5v5 and tries to make seam passes. He isn't playing with guys on his hip like he used to and expertly so....he seems more willing to just dish it off under duress. He doesn't drive the net; he lets his wingers do that. He seems too comfortable with the same 3 plays he always does. I really do hope the coaches try to drill this into him because it's a trend that's not going away. Honestly, he needs to watch some tape of himself.
- Mononoke

He had an explosive burst in that video. He doesn't have that anymore. A 1/2 of a step is huge in the NHL. His skating has definitely declined. I agree that he has stayed far more to the perimeter, some of that is systems related, but he is physically not the same player. I think there is a possibility that he can reinvent himself so to speak, and find other ways to be more effective, but he's not that top 5 player that he was for a number of seasons anymore. Giroux in his prime could put a team on his back, and he could take over a game. I don't think he can do that anymore. Instead of being an 80-90 pt player, he is a 60+ point player. None of that means that they need to move on from him, or that they can't win with him in the future.

Wash look darn good in all facets of the game can not believe the flyers played so good against them specially their D play,and the day after had their worst game of the season

"Our problem was me. I didn't get the goalie we needed," Clarke says now. "When we signed John Vanbiesbrouck, he played really good for us, but we should have signed Curtis Joseph (who signed with the Leafs and then beat the Flyers in the postseason). It's easy to justify. Joseph wanted $7 million, Vanbiesbrouck was three. Roger loved Vanbiesbrouck, because of what he'd done for him in Florida, and in New York. It was an easy out. I made the mistake. I shoulda gone after Joseph."

Thank you for admitting this, Clarkie

"Our problem was me. I didn't get the goalie we needed," Clarke says now. "When we signed John Vanbiesbrouck, he played really good for us, but we should have signed Curtis Joseph (who signed with the Leafs and then beat the Flyers in the postseason). It's easy to justify. Joseph wanted $7 million, Vanbiesbrouck was three. Roger loved Vanbiesbrouck, because of what he'd done for him in Florida, and in New York. It was an easy out. I made the mistake. I shoulda gone after Joseph."

Thank you for admitting this, Clarkie
- KINGKENZO

Just read this too. First I've ever seen of him saying this. I don't necessarily agree that Cujo brings a cup. It's arguable the 95-97 teams were better than 98-04 teams. He may have stabilized the position for that time, but I'm not convinced they win with him. I'm shocked that Clarke objected to the $, especially in the pre cap environment.

Just read this too. First I've ever seen of him saying this. I don't necessarily agree that Cujo brings a cup. It's arguable the 95-97 teams were better than 98-04 teams. He may have stabilized the position for that time, but I'm not convinced they win with him. I'm shocked that Clarke objected to the $, especially in the pre cap environment.
- hammarby31

Yeah, I was really shocked when that happened. I really thought CUJO would be coming there for better or worse. There's no denying he was fantastic for the Leafs during this time there.

I am sure most heard the story that he was at home wearing a Flyers jersey when his agent called. He said, so I'm going to the Flyers right? Agent said, nope, you're going to the Leafs.. (or some variation of this).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFonYwoWgro

Where has all this gone?
- Just5

I still miss Jagr. He really brought the best out of Giroux. And he'd be a great locker room presence for our younger guys.