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- Landsbergfan

he almost turns it over twice in a row there. First on that god awful pass to whoever. Next on what should have been a fairly simple d-to-d pass to Provy behind the net that he smashed up the boards. He was just very very bad last night. How he lets that man behind him like that on the PK EVERYTIME drives me nuts.
- jak521

he did turn it over twice. he missed on his dish to provorov. it was too far for him to reach.

I'd rather have Trent Klatt or Joel Otto.

Maybe even a Kent Manderville
- J35Bacher

I'd love to have Joel Otto right now. Didn't he win like 700% of the faceoffs he took?

or use the near boards, which happened to have a flyer positioned in the right place to receive a pass...or rip it hard off the glass on the same side out to the neutral zone.
- hammarby31

Passing the puck into the middle of your defensive zone is never a bad idea.

When you're Peter Forsberg.

- Landsbergfan

Looks to me like he was passing to Giroux and he passed it too hard. Giroux didn't have his stick on the ice and wasn't ready for it.
AMac makes nice recovery after the Buffalo player turns it over (yeah, I was amazed too that another player could turn over a puck) and makes a decent pass to get it on its way out. Simmonds then fails and well, you know what happens.

But yes, it was all on AMac and no one else.

I'm not trying to defend AMac, if it were up to me he would be gone, but it is just silly some of the criticism he gets.
- MBFlyerfan

and not a single person said he was the sole culprit on the goal. its been acknowledged that Simmonds had a chance to get it out and its been also acknowledged that Giroux didn't react to the turnover. His pass was't too hard to Giroux to me. it simply was a misfire. Bad first pass. with so little time left just get the (frank)ing puck out. Mistakes happen. Some players make more than others and AMAC is grating on my nerves considering what he makes. he is overplayed which is the coaching staff's fault. I am sick of him getting 20 plus mins a night.

if there is ever a time you don't care about a clean pass out and just care out getting it out whether its a pass or chip off the glass that is it with so little time left in the period.
- nastyflyergirl

exactly.

- Landsbergfan

Ryan Parent was a FA signing.

or use the near boards, which happened to have a flyer positioned in the right place to receive a pass...or rip it hard off the glass on the same side out to the neutral zone.
- hammarby31

Well, you don't want to ice it.

I'd love to have Joel Otto right now. Didn't he win like 700% of the faceoffs he took?
- jmatchett383

Remember some of the great 4th liners. The Flyers used to have those 4th lines that were just a pain in the ass to play against and did there role game in and game out.

Jim Dowd
Kent Manderville
Shjon Podien
Joel Otto
Trent Klatt

The problem actually start before he passes it. He hesitated (which is something he does a lot) and then he lost time and space and had to move it up quickly which ended causing the turnover. He then rushes the pass behind the boards where he could have just tapped it over to provy who (with possession) could have moved the puck out. Instead he whacked it which caused a 50/50 play and the poke to Simmonds.
- jak521

agree with all of this

Remember some of the great 4th liners. The Flyers used to have those 4th lines that were just a pain in the ass to play against and did there role game in and game out.

Jim Dowd
Kent Manderville
Shjon Podien
Joel Otto
Trent Klatt
- J35Bacher

They did. But Manderville and Otto, even Klatt, would get murdered with the speed of the game today.

Passing the puck into the middle of your defensive zone is never a bad idea.

When you're Peter Forsberg.
- jmatchett383

When Streit does it, it leads directly to a goal.

Passing the puck into the middle of your defensive zone is never a bad idea.

When you're Peter Forsberg.
- jmatchett383

right, because peter just skates around the opposition into the slot and gets the pass back.

I actually believe statistically he is the worst Flyer at getting the puck out with possession fwiw.

But this play is basically MacDonald in a nutshell. When he's playing at a typical level, he, at least no more than any other d man, won't make the egregious turnover that leads directly to the goal; he won't completely botch some coverage. Hence this idea he is "reliable" or "structured," as he goes around in his shot block stance and whatnot. But his entire game operates around indirectly causing breakdowns or d-zone time by little mistakes all over the ice. A questionable pinch or a questionable not pinch; constantly poor gap control to allow the opposition to set up in their zone; failed clears and missed passes; and just a general passivity in a defenseman with NHL skills and an AHL mind.

So many of these things are preventable. And when they happen consistently, they allow opportunities for bad bounces or for other mistakes. Yes, he'll have his egregious plays, but so does every d man. His fatal flaw is his propensity for subtle errors, like a constant theme, that open up for things to get compounded.
- Mononoke

Explain to me what his options on this play are knowing he's under tight pressure for a quick play. I can't see Provorov so I'm not sure if he's open but the forwards all appear to have their heads up their ass. Whoever that is on the left side is standing still under complete coverage. Giroux is skating into coverage in the slot. It looks like he's going to Simmonds for the hail mary pass on the right side. Not something I would recommend but the 2 forwards on his side of the ice need to give him better options.

They did. But Manderville and Otto, even Klatt, would get murdered with the speed of the game today.
- jmatchett383

They would.

I would love a line like Dallas had. It was Rousell and Garbut and I think Chassion.

I want a line that can skate, play chippy, have some skill to chip in some offense. But really just be a pain in the ass.

Boston the year they won the cup had Campbell - Kelly - Thornton. They would cause problems with effort and would seem to bring energy and chip in a timely goal.

When Streit does it, it leads directly to a goal.


- Feanor

holy hell that was dreadful.

Well, you don't want to ice it.
- Feanor

of course not. which is why i said "into the neutral zone". you can angle it the right the way so it ends up in that space, even with some heat on it. i'd still risk the draw on an icing rather than a bad play that turns into a goat rope. which is exactly what happened.

I'd love to have Joel Otto right now. Didn't he win like 700% of the faceoffs he took?
- jmatchett383

He was a Flyer in the Lindros heydays one of the best D centers of all time?

holy hell that was dreadful.
- nastyflyergirl

how does an NHL player make that play?

Explain to me what his options on this play are knowing he's under tight pressure for a quick play. I can't see Provorov so I'm not sure if he's open but the forwards all appear to have their heads up their ass. Whoever that is on the left side is standing still under complete coverage. Giroux is skating into coverage in the slot. It looks like he's going to Simmonds for the hail mary pass on the right side. Not something I would recommend but the 2 forwards on his side of the ice need to give him better options.
- Baxter27

Number 1 option with pressure deep in your zone with little time left in the period is to flip it into the NZ. Second/third would be wrap/chip off the boards. Fourth is skate the puck and tie it up. I'm not sure where, "Pass into the middle of your own zone to a player who's covered," falls, but it's not at the top.

I'm not saying he was directly or solely at fault. But it wasn't a very smart play.

Heh. Manderville is only one year older than Jagr.

I actually believe statistically he is the worst Flyer at getting the puck out with possession fwiw.

But this play is basically MacDonald in a nutshell. When he's playing at a typical level, he, at least no more than any other d man, won't make the egregious turnover that leads directly to the goal; he won't completely botch some coverage. Hence this idea he is "reliable" or "structured," as he goes around in his shot block stance and whatnot. But his entire game operates around indirectly causing breakdowns or d-zone time by little mistakes all over the ice. A questionable pinch or a questionable not pinch; constantly poor gap control to allow the opposition to set up in their zone; failed clears and missed passes; and just a general passivity in a defenseman with NHL skills and an AHL mind.

So many of these things are preventable. And when they happen consistently, they allow opportunities for bad bounces or for other mistakes. Yes, he'll have his egregious plays, but so does every d man. His fatal flaw is his propensity for subtle errors, like a constant theme, that open up for things to get compounded.
- Mononoke

He also has penchant for simply dumping the puck into the neutral zone. Those types of plays are never recognized as an error, but, if done on a consistent basis, they lead to chances against and less opportunities offensively.

To be honest, his goals against numbers aren't terrible. They're average by team standards over his Flyers career. It's the teams' inability to generate offense when he's on the ice that really crushes him.

Ultimately, the game isn't about denying goals or creating goals; it's about scoring more than the opposition. MacDonald's average defensive ability is offset by the fact that the team has trouble scoring when he's on the ice.

and not a single person said he was the sole culprit on the goal. its been acknowledged that Simmonds had a chance to get it out and its been also acknowledged that Giroux didn't react to the turnover. His pass was't too hard to Giroux to me. it simply was a misfire. Bad first pass. with so little time left just get the (frank)ing puck out. Mistakes happen. Some players make more than others and AMAC is grating on my nerves considering what he makes. he is overplayed which is the coaching staff's fault. I am sick of him getting 20 plus mins a night.
- nastyflyergirl

Agree with all of this.

Heh. Manderville is only one year older than Jagr.
- BINGO!

Once Jagr goes 122 NHL games without a goal, we can use them in the same sentence.