he isn't anything more and his defensive prowess is overrated imo.

only a matter of time before the coach put shim back on the 2nd line as the center. How he gets pp time is mind boggling.
- rinaldo

His contract isn't a burden and if I had to pick between him and Schenn I will always pick Couturier. He just brings more. Also the 2nd pp sees about 20-30 seconds. Who else would you put on the 2nd unit? Raffl? Read? Vandevelde? Bellemare? With 4 forwards on the first unit they have some role guys on the 2nd pp

I'm on the bubble with MDZ. guess it just depends on what it would take to re-sign him in terms of cap hit and term.
- nastyflyergirl

At first I was against trading him, but the more I thought about it and where our team stands, i started to think of the risk of him hitting FA and losing him for nothing to a team who overpays slightly or even us having to slightly overpay to sign him (ahem Weise?) Yeah our defense takes a dent by trading him, but with or without him, we realistically aren't winning a 7 game series against teams such as Rags, Pens, Caps, or Blue Jackets.

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday after where Provorov projects to and trying to find a realistic comparable. I don't think it's fair to compare him to a Lidstrom/Bourque/Niedermayer/Leetch type at this point, as they're 4 of the best of all-time. He doesn't have the nasty edge of a guy like Pronger/Iafrate/MacInnis/Stevens, but he's also a much more agile skater than those guys.

Maybe the best ones would be both Gary and/or Ryan Suter. Guys who are fantastic two-way players, play(ed) all situations, and weren't afraid of physical contact yet were could use their sense/positioning so they didn't have to. Thoughts?

Edit: I think Feanor brought up a more durable Ryan Suter yesterday
- jmatchett383

I think possibly Duncan Keith. I think you'll see more offense with experience

In terms of trading Del Zotto sooner rather than later, the market will open up at the deadline, where more teams will be looking to make moves, and have more ability to make moves. That could help drive up the value for a player. The trade market is dry right now.
- MJL

I do agree about his value increasing around the deadline, especially as more injuries will occur to other teams, but my fear is he gets nicked up again around the deadline and he's untradeable. I think this happened to Streit last season if I'm not mixing up another season.

With Morin seemingly knocking on the NHL door, i would trade both Streit and MDZ even as a playoff bubble team and ride with Schultz or call up Brennan even. With Ghost locked as PP1 QB and Provy taking PP2, Streit is expendable despite his veteran presence and locker room voice. WIth MDZ, I loved how he's played for us over past couple of seasons, but he's injury prone it seems and may ask for a contract that doesn't fit our plan/comfort level. I would move him sooner than later mainly because I fear him getting injured again for a decent stretch of games and him losing value and simultaneously contributing nothing for us while injured. I know you can't predict injuries but he's a nice piece that I think can help our future with a pick or 2 (and cap relief) with Myers, Morin, Sanhiem, and even Hagg streaminling the lineup 1-3 years
- arichardson22

You mean Michael Del Zotto isn't a first pair number one defenseman that we should move mountains to sign? This right here my friend is a hot take.

I kid with you my friend, but am I glad summer conversations are over. [/img]

How many goals did the 2nd unit score without him this season? Or last season?
- Feanor

no idea do tell.

I do agree about his value increasing around the deadline, especially as more injuries will occur to other teams, but my fear is he gets nicked up again around the deadline and he's untradeable. I think this happened to Streit last season if I'm not mixing up another season.
- arichardson22

My worry as we get closer I feel then there are more guys available. I would like to try and get a little ahead of the trades if I am moving a defenseman.

His contract isn't a burden and if I had to pick between him and Schenn I will always pick Couturier. He just brings more. Also the 2nd pp sees about 20-30 seconds. Who else would you put on the 2nd unit? Raffl? Read? Vandevelde? Bellemare? With 4 forwards on the first unit they have some role guys on the 2nd pp
- J35Bacher

I think he gets more than 20-30 seconds. he doesn't belong on the pp. you think diff that's ok.

The need to trade anyone in the top six is laughable to me. No I wouldn't trade Schenn. No I wouldn't trade Couturier. In fact I would look to add if anything.
- SuperSchennBros

well I don't think #14 is a top 6 player.

I think he gets more than 20-30 seconds. he doesn't belong on the pp. you think diff that's ok.
- rinaldo

I am ok if you don't want him there but out of the other optinos who are you putting there. The 2nd unit is Couturier, Konecny, Weise, Provorov and Del Zotto/Streit.

That leaves Raffl, Read, Vandevlede, Bellemare, Gordon/Lyubimov as forward options.

well I don't think #14 is a top 6 player.
- rinaldo

He might not be. He may never be. What we do know is what he provides and we need it

You mean Michael Del Zotto isn't a first pair number one defenseman that we should move mountains to sign? This right here my friend is a hot take.

I kid with you my friend, but am I glad summer conversations are over.
- SuperSchennBros[/img]

I think the expectations for MDZ coming into this season were high because of how he shifted his game last season and impressed with his all-around play, even if it meant him losing points. We also saw a possible increased "hurt" of not having MDZ in the lineup with his abscense in the playoff series against Caps.

These are more of a reflection of team play.

He's been 20th, 3rd, 19th in his 3 full seasons here.

Since joining the Flyers, Mason has a .919 save percentage.

Lundqvist has a career .920.
Carey Price has a career .920.
Quick has a career .916.
Schneider has a career .923.
Bishop has a career .919.
Golden Boy Bob has a career .919.

My own assessment of Mason is as follows:

He's been very good and probably the best goalie the team has had in a long time. He's not a top tier goalie, but he also doesn't get paid top tier money. Despite what people think, Mason has actually been very consistent for the Flyers throughout his career. He's never posted below a .917 save percentage (until this season) despite playing in front of some not so stellar PK units. If you want to nitpick, you can say he hasn't exactly been a pillar of health, but if you look at the other goalies listed above, all have had injury problems over the last few years.

Regarding this season, Mason's save percentage has dropped significantly. I think the main problem is that the Flyers are allowing fewer shots (down 1.5 shots from last year), but giving up more chances. Just look back to last night. Rangers weren't throwing a bunch of pucks at him, but they were able to generate 7 odd man rushes. That's one of the reasons his save percentage has dipped this year.

In the end, Mason had a bit of a rough game last night. He's played a lot lately. It's not like any of the goals were outright soft, but he needed to come up with 1 or 2 saves. It happens. Goalies have off nights too. Mason is really the least of their worries. The forward depth and reckless defensive play are much more worrisome.
- PhillySportsGuy

Nicely done, and I don't disagree with your final conclusion.

Bold = save% is very much a team-related stat, too. ;-)

I think the expectations for MDZ coming into this season were high because of how he shifted his game last season and impressed with his all-around play, even if it meant him losing points. We also saw a possible increased "hurt" of not having MDZ in the lineup with his abscense in the playoff series against Caps.
- arichardson22

The team is better off holding on to MDZ for now. Better to see if he can rehabilitate his value and get back to where he was last year.

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday after where Provorov projects to and trying to find a realistic comparable. I don't think it's fair to compare him to a Lidstrom/Bourque/Niedermayer/Leetch type at this point, as they're 4 of the best of all-time. He doesn't have the nasty edge of a guy like Pronger/Iafrate/MacInnis/Stevens, but he's also a much more agile skater than those guys.

Maybe the best ones would be both Gary and/or Ryan Suter. Guys who are fantastic two-way players, play(ed) all situations, and weren't afraid of physical contact yet were could use their sense/positioning so they didn't have to. Thoughts?

Edit: I think Feanor brought up a more durable Ryan Suter yesterday
- jmatchett383

Ryan Suter is pretty durable

Nicely done, and I don't disagree with your final conclusion.

Bold = save% is very much a team-related stat, too. ;-)
- Scoob

All stats are team stats

Edit. Except TOI

Ryan Suter is pretty durable
- KINGKENZO

Durable as in longer time as an elite defender, although I don't think Suter has slowed down much. Obviously he plays a poopton of minutes.

All stats are team stats

Edit. Except TOI
- YuenglingJagr

And +/- and wins.

And Selke votes.

I think the expectations for MDZ coming into this season were high because of how he shifted his game last season and impressed with his all-around play, even if it meant him losing points. We also saw a possible increased "hurt" of not having MDZ in the lineup with his abscense in the playoff series against Caps.
- arichardson22

Michael Del Zotto's overall career has never indicated that he was ever going to blossom into a number one or first pair defenseman. Same with Gudas. Same with Ghost. This is a frustrating and goofy debate I never want to be apart of again.

I also want to point out that Brandon Manning has regressed. I am expecting him to be a healthy scratch soon.

Couturier and Schenn need to elevate their games. (frank)ing turds.

Michael Del Zotto's overall career has never indicated that he was ever going to blossom into a number one or first pair defenseman. Same with Gudas. Same with Ghost. This is a frustrating and goofy debate I never want to be apart of again.
- SuperSchennBros

Not a true #1 elite player. But on a team with a generally weak blueline, they are out first pair defenders much like AMac was a first pair defender for NYI. I don't think anyone was putting them in the class of guys like Doughty or Hedman.

Durable as in longer time as an elite defender, although I don't think Suter has slowed down much. Obviously he plays a poopton of minutes.
- jmatchett383

Ok then, carry on

And +/- and wins.

And Selke votes.
- jmatchett383

True. Forgot about those iWx individual expected wins

He might not be. He may never be. What we do know is what he provides and we need it
- SuperSchennBros

He has been since the start of the 2013 season.