Taylor Hall - as I posted in great depth the other day - is a legit top line all-round player in the NHL. He is a top scorer over the last 3 years and has just 25 or so less points that Crosby over that time. (5v5).

He also drives possession (meaning he makes other, worse, players on his team beter).

He is sound defensively, but the other team rarely has the puck when he's on the ice anyways.

All around, Taylor Hall should have been one of their first picks - he's every bit the player Stamkos, Tavares and Seguin are.

Also, he's one of the fastest skaters in the NHL - maybe the fastest - and Team Canada is a relatively slow team.
- JTanner

then his speed wouldn't be a whole lot of a factor. not like this team plays dump and chase.

The other team had the puck 48.3% of the time last year (according to CORSI anyway). Nearly half the time = "rarely" to you?


- prock

Adjust for score and teammates, Taylor Hall is a dominant possession forward.

the Kings missed leading the NHL in wins by 2 games. There's being a stickler and then just being over-the-top about it.
- JTanner

what about 2014-15?

I don't know, James. There seems to be information that both you and I are lacking that the brain trust for Canada (you know, the guys that REALLY know all the relevant information) seem to have.
I don't by any means dislike or disrespect Taylor Hall. I'm just saying that if he were truly "every bit the player Stamkos, Tavares and Seguin are", he would be on the team.
And when it comes to the selection of O'Reilly over Hall, I was intrigued by what the (all-mighty) stats show. Which is that they are very similar players, by the numbers. What stands out to me is that O'Reilly can be counted on to take important draws (53% career) and in 120 more games than Hall he has half as many giveaways and twice as many takeaways. Also, he is better in shootouts (34.5% vs 25%).
- Tonybere

The only reason Taylor Hall isn't considered by the general public to be as good as Seguin and Tavares is because is overly blamed for being on a bad team.

By your logic, no one should question any move made by NHL gms, since they have their jobs for a reason. That doesn't wash with me.

Adjust for score and teammates, Taylor Hall is a dominant possession forward.
- JTanner

How on earth do you, "adjust" for teammates?

Hey Tanner. This isn't Miles Davis.



For future reference: Smooth jazz is a popular genre of music that grew out of jazz
- 1979AD[1] and is influenced by rhythm and blues, funk, rock and roll, and pop music styles (separately, or, in any combination).[citation needed] Musicians such as Kenny G., Ramsey Lewis, David Koz, and Spyro Gyra have had hits with instrumental recordings, while singers such as Anita Baker, Sade, Sting and Norah Jones have found success with vocal releases. George Benson remains a popular Smooth Jazz artist as both a singer and guitar player. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_jazz

True story, after writing this blog I mentioned to my buddy that some guy would probably point out that Miles Davis isn't smooth jazz. In this case, guy was a bit of a euphemism.

We are seeing some truly minute complaints about the accuracy of things today. There's knitpicking and there's whatever this is. hahaha

How on earth do you, "adjust" for teammates?
- prock

http://hockeyanalysis.com...-are-rel-and-reltm-stats/

The only reason Taylor Hall isn't considered by the general public to be as good as Seguin and Tavares is because is overly blamed for being on a bad team.

By your logic, no one should question any move made by NHL gms, since they have their jobs for a reason. That doesn't wash with me.
- JTanner

My point was not that one should not question any NHL GM's. It was that one should not assume he knows everything that NHL GM's know just because he has access to some NHL statistics.

I don't know, James. There seems to be information that both you and I are lacking that the brain trust for Canada (you know, the guys that REALLY know all the relevant information) seem to have.
I don't by any means dislike or disrespect Taylor Hall. I'm just saying that if he were truly "every bit the player Stamkos, Tavares and Seguin are", he would be on the team.
And when it comes to the selection of O'Reilly over Hall, I was intrigued by what the (all-mighty) stats show. Which is that they are very similar players, by the numbers. What stands out to me is that O'Reilly can be counted on to take important draws (53% career) and in 120 more games than Hall he has half as many giveaways and twice as many takeaways. Also, he is better in shootouts (34.5% vs 25%).
- Tonybere

That's not true. GMs/Coaches make questionable decisions all the time IE:Bouwmeester over Subban and Letang. Babcock likes low event, safe hockey players, and guys like Bouwmeester, Weber, ROR fit Babcock's mold, which is probably why they were selected.

That's not true. GMs/Coaches make questionable decisions all the time IE:Bouwmeester over Subban and Letang. Babcock likes low event, safe hockey players, and guys like Bouwmeester, Weber, ROR fit Babcock's mold, which is probably why they were selected.
- j.boyd919

So, then how is that a questionable decision? They selected the guys that are top level talents while SIMULTANEOUSLY fitting the system that the coaches plan to put in place. The questionable decision would be putting someone like Subban, who can't be counted on to make the smart, safe play on the team over someone who can.

the Kings missed leading the NHL in wins by 2 games. There's being a stickler and then just being over-the-top about it.
- JTanner

It's a fact, and I know you like facts James, that the Kings lost 28 games, last season, with a team corsi of over 55%.

That's not true. GMs/Coaches make questionable decisions all the time IE:Bouwmeester over Subban and Letang. Babcock likes low event, safe hockey players, and guys like Bouwmeester, Weber, ROR fit Babcock's mold, which is probably why they were selected.
- j.boyd919

If you look at my original statement, it was not that GM's are infallible. It was that the GM's of the 30 NHL franchises spend their days talking to, thinking about and dealing with these players, coaches and systems, while you and I (and Tanner, et al) just read about them and act as if we know everything about them.

My point was not that one should not question any NHL GM's. It was that one should not assume he knows everything that NHL GM's know just because he has access to some NHL statistics.
- Tonybere

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case all my player evaluations come from my attempts to synthesize the work of a group of analysts that I like and trust.

Take what this guy says, what that guy says, look up some stats and come to whatever flawed and possibly ridiculous conclusion comes into my mind.

I try to read and watch widely. Sometimes I might be adamant about something, other times it's just something to think about.

There are some things which I think have objective, binary answers, but for the most part, anything is debatable. Who's to say the dumb looking GM just didn't know something no one else did? It's not impossible.

We are always making our best guess out of limited information, whether that's stats and how to apply them, or the just watching games and forming opinions based on plays that standout when we're not going to the fridge for another beer.

As a writer, you're sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't in the sense that you can write a really self-conscious article full of "maybes" and "in my opinions" or you can just fire away and try to speak with some authority, even if it isn't warranted, earned or accurate.

The fact is, just like with girls, confidence in writing pays off. It's way more fun to read and causes more discussions. So, really, I don't think I ever think I could do someones job better than they could, because from the sidelines I have zero pressure and no accountability.

It's a fact, and I know you like facts James, that the Kings lost 28 games, last season, with a team corsi of over 55%.
- MJL

Its also a fact that since that was one of the lowest amounts of losses in the NHL last season that i was correct in calling it "rare" since, relatively, it is.

So, then how is that a questionable decision? They selected the guys that are top level talents while SIMULTANEOUSLY fitting the system that the coaches plan to put in place. The questionable decision would be putting someone like Subban, who can't be counted on to make the smart, safe play on the team over someone who can.
- Tonybere

I don't have a problem with ROR over Hall. But I do have a problem with Bouwmeester, and Weber to an extent. I don't consider JayBo a top level talent. And I don't think Weber is as good as people make him out to be to. 3-4 years ago Weber was a beast.

Letang, Subban, Doughty, Vlasic, Giordano, Pietrangelo, Weber, Burns, Muzzin, Green, Keith... so many platers from Canada better than JayBo IMO.

Bolded would be my choices for Canada's backend.

Its also a fact that since that was one of the lowest amounts of losses in the NHL last season that i was correct in calling it "rare" since, relatively, it is.
- JTanner

That's false James. Losing 28 games, doesn't rank as rare. I have plenty more. If we look at score adjusted hockey, within 1 goal at 5 on 5 play, the Toronto Maple Leafs had a CF% of 58.2%. They lost 43 games last year. I have more if necessary. Calling it rare is just plain silly, not to mention inaccurate.

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2015/09/21/what-are-rel-and-reltm-stats/
- JTanner

So you don't really mean, "adjust" for teammates. You just mean "in comparison to" teammates.

That's false James. I have plenty more. If we look at score adjusted hockey, within 1 goal at 5 on 5 play, the Toronto Maple Leafs had a CF% of 58.2%. They lost 43 games last year. I have more if necessary. Calling it rare is just plain silly, not to mention inaccurate.
- MJL

I hate/love having you in discussion both at the same time.

That's not true. GMs/Coaches make questionable decisions all the time IE:Bouwmeester over Subban and Letang. Babcock likes low event, safe hockey players, and guys like Bouwmeester, Weber, ROR fit Babcock's mold, which is probably why they were selected.
- j.boyd919

Not true. Boumeester is a leftie. Canada has too many righties and Babcock likes his lefities.

Tanner, I gotta give you credit for this. You said the WCoH would be good and his. I hope team NA wins the whole thing. They are amazing to watch.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case all my player evaluations come from my attempts to synthesize the work of a group of analysts that I like and trust.

Take what this guy says, what that guy says, look up some stats and come to whatever flawed and possibly ridiculous conclusion comes into my mind.

I try to read and watch widely. Sometimes I might be adamant about something, other times it's just something to think about.

There are some things which I think have objective, binary answers, but for the most part, anything is debatable. Who's to say the dumb looking GM just didn't know something no one else did? It's not impossible.

We are always making our best guess out of limited information, whether that's stats and how to apply them, or the just watching games and forming opinions based on plays that standout when we're not going to the fridge for another beer.

As a writer, you're sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't in the sense that you can write a really self-conscious article full of "maybes" and "in my opinions" or you can just fire away and try to speak with some authority, even if it isn't warranted, earned or accurate.

The fact is, just like with girls, confidence in writing pays off. It's way more fun to read and causes more discussions. So, really, I don't think I ever think I could do someones job better than they could, because from the sidelines I have zero pressure and no accountability.
- JTanner

Uh-oh guys, I think Skynet has just become self-aware.

I kid.

But you're right. People will be all over you no matter what you say. I don't agree with everything you say, and I do like to needle you about word usage from time to time, but you help me kill a few minutes out of a boring day, and for that, I say thank you.

Not true. Boumeester is a leftie. Canada has too many righties and Babcock likes his lefities.
- Santo_44

Giordano >>>>>>>>>> Bouwmeester.

Giordano >>>>>>>>>> Bouwmeester.
- j.boyd919

What are you looking for, more of a defensive presence, or an offensive puck mover? Giordano is not great defensively.

What are you looking for, more of a defensive presence, or an offensive puck mover? Giordano is not great defensively.
- MJL

I don't buy that Bouwmeester is any better than Gio defensively and he doesn't hold a candle to him offensively, given Gio's 56 points and JayBo's 19.

Bouwmeester was on the ice for 50 GF, and 75 GA
Gio was on the ice for 112, and 116 GA

I'll take the guy with more offensive upside. I already know you and I don't see eye to eye in how we evaluate players.

EDIT: I'm looking for a better hockey player. I don't really care about the "defensive defensemen", "stay at home defensemen", "offensive defensemen" monikers.

What are you looking for, more of a defensive presence, or an offensive puck mover? Giordano is not great defensively.
- MJL

I'd say Giordano has developed into a solid all round dman. His knock is his health. This season was his first full healthy season in a long time.

Given the choice, he'd be the easy decision for me.